Does anyone know if the wording on the NR regs is new this year?
In my opinion if I shoot a deer and someone else tags it I am using that tag. Also the regs mention possesion of transportation tags, a NR in this situation would be in possesion of someone else's transportation tag when they load up thier deer and head home.
In my opinion if I shoot a deer and someone else tags it I am using that tag. Also the regs mention possesion of transportation tags, a NR in this situation would be in possesion of someone else's transportation tag when they load up thier deer and head home.
Noodles3435
Member
Hey its only illegal when you get caught. Lol.... im joking...but really teeroy is right, it needs to end, also the law needs to be more specific then we wouldn't have to argue about it.
1. I have a tag (resident)
2. Santa Claus has a doe tag (non-resident) or a buck tag for that matter (makes no difference)
3. Santa and I hunt together because we are buds
4. Santa kills a buck on a drive with me, out of the stand next to me, out of the same box blind, etc...
5. I decide to tag Santa's deer.
6. Santa's deer is now mine. I decide to give it to Santa because he really likes it and I want cool X-mas presents. It is now Santa's deer, because I said so.
7. Santa can now drag it home.
As long as Santa doesnt touch (or carry) my tag before it goes on MY deer that HE shot, during shotgun season ONLY, while we are hunting TOGETHER, it is perfectly legal.
Though its a bit "tacky" in the outfitters situation.
Make sense?
2. Santa Claus has a doe tag (non-resident) or a buck tag for that matter (makes no difference)
3. Santa and I hunt together because we are buds
4. Santa kills a buck on a drive with me, out of the stand next to me, out of the same box blind, etc...
5. I decide to tag Santa's deer.
6. Santa's deer is now mine. I decide to give it to Santa because he really likes it and I want cool X-mas presents. It is now Santa's deer, because I said so.
7. Santa can now drag it home.
As long as Santa doesnt touch (or carry) my tag before it goes on MY deer that HE shot, during shotgun season ONLY, while we are hunting TOGETHER, it is perfectly legal.
Though its a bit "tacky" in the outfitters situation.
Make sense?
timekiller
No, you can't pet him.
TimberPig-
Could you put a good word in to Santa for me?
Could you put a good word in to Santa for me?
iowabucks
Member
Ah.... yes.
But where do you get another buck tag when you take the Easter Bunny out on his guided hunt the next week?
That is the only part i don't understand. If all the guides have buck tags, they should only have 1 for the year, right? But i'm guessing they will somehow end up with more than 1.
SaskGuy
Active Member
Wow! So the outfitter can approach as many Joe Blow guys who don't hunt that he/she knows or whom he meets through other people, offer them up a thousand bucks to buy a tag and skulk around with a non resident for a few days and still make a couple grand off selling a hunt??
Seems like pretty shady operations on his part, but totally legit due to legislation that stinks so bad I can almost smell it here.
Seems like pretty shady operations on his part, but totally legit due to legislation that stinks so bad I can almost smell it here.
Look, this is the DNR's compromise for very strict NR allocations, especially archery tags. It's a very effective deer management tool and it enables NR's to come back to Iowa and hunt with family/friends with the possibility of killing a buck. Some call it a loop hole, etc. but it's simply a compromise in the overall deer management strategy in the state.
Daver
PMA Member
My opinion...
I am not trying to stir the pot, but I have a different opinion/perspective on this than Jdubs does. I do not think that the DNR had any intent to help OR harm NR's when the party hunting provision was allowed originally. (Although I am not sure about this, I think the party hunting(tag sharing) provision has been in existence for many more years than NR's could even get licenses in Iowa.) I think the fact that NR's can legally harvest a buck during the shotgun seasons, provided they have someone handy to tag it with a valid buck tag, was simply an unintentional side effect of the previously established party hunting rules.
I have been told that the party hunting "loophole" stems from the once upon a time very common approach to deer hunting here in Iowa where a large group was assembled and drives were conducted and meat poles were filled, etc. This was largely, if not exclusively, a popular "resident" hunting strategy and say what you will about QDM and so forth, it DID have a way of keeping the deer population in check, which for many farmers is all they care about. Many farmers consider deer overgrown corn/bean eating "rats" and want them all killed on sight and cannot for the life of them understand why someone would choose to not shoot every deer they get a chance at. "You can't eat antlers..."
I think the "loophole" has been there all along and was just subsequently "discovered" by outfitters and/or landowners and then used to serve a purpose, etc. I am not sure about every aspect of what I am saying here, but this is what I think at this point. I agree, it is LEGAL under current law for NR's to do this, I am only saying that I don't think the party hunting law(s) were made for the benefit of NR's per se.
I am not trying to stir the pot, but I have a different opinion/perspective on this than Jdubs does. I do not think that the DNR had any intent to help OR harm NR's when the party hunting provision was allowed originally. (Although I am not sure about this, I think the party hunting(tag sharing) provision has been in existence for many more years than NR's could even get licenses in Iowa.) I think the fact that NR's can legally harvest a buck during the shotgun seasons, provided they have someone handy to tag it with a valid buck tag, was simply an unintentional side effect of the previously established party hunting rules.
I have been told that the party hunting "loophole" stems from the once upon a time very common approach to deer hunting here in Iowa where a large group was assembled and drives were conducted and meat poles were filled, etc. This was largely, if not exclusively, a popular "resident" hunting strategy and say what you will about QDM and so forth, it DID have a way of keeping the deer population in check, which for many farmers is all they care about. Many farmers consider deer overgrown corn/bean eating "rats" and want them all killed on sight and cannot for the life of them understand why someone would choose to not shoot every deer they get a chance at. "You can't eat antlers..."
I think the "loophole" has been there all along and was just subsequently "discovered" by outfitters and/or landowners and then used to serve a purpose, etc. I am not sure about every aspect of what I am saying here, but this is what I think at this point. I agree, it is LEGAL under current law for NR's to do this, I am only saying that I don't think the party hunting law(s) were made for the benefit of NR's per se.
JNRBRONC
Well-Known Member
turtlshell
PMA Member
deer management tool for NR...that's ridiculous, you can't be serious. They're here to shoot bucks, there's nothing MANAGEMENT about that. This outfitter is asking his clients to purchase a doe tag, basically use it as asswipe because they can shoot a buck and when they do he will find a friend who has a tag for it.
Gimme a break JDub. That's wasting a viable DOE tag from the pool to skirt the regs as NR in order to shoot something with antlers. The deer management tool in this state comes in the form of the number of tags issued...not some loophole system for the NR's who can't patiently wait three years to legally draw their anysex tag.
These guys, or I mean guides, hunt the shotgun season too. So, yes it's a good question...where are the tags coming from? Some are non-guiding family members others are landowners tags.
I'd like to see this "outfitting" approach tried on Elk out west. Not gonna happen.
SO, would the "guide" need to be carrying a weapon to fit in as a "Party-Hunter" or just their presence is good enough?...because reading some of the cameraman denials would suggest the "guide" would just need to be there.
Smart way to make cash, YES...good for hunting in my backyard HELL NO!!!
Gimme a break JDub. That's wasting a viable DOE tag from the pool to skirt the regs as NR in order to shoot something with antlers. The deer management tool in this state comes in the form of the number of tags issued...not some loophole system for the NR's who can't patiently wait three years to legally draw their anysex tag.
These guys, or I mean guides, hunt the shotgun season too. So, yes it's a good question...where are the tags coming from? Some are non-guiding family members others are landowners tags.
I'd like to see this "outfitting" approach tried on Elk out west. Not gonna happen.
SO, would the "guide" need to be carrying a weapon to fit in as a "Party-Hunter" or just their presence is good enough?...because reading some of the cameraman denials would suggest the "guide" would just need to be there.
Smart way to make cash, YES...good for hunting in my backyard HELL NO!!!
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sureshot
The Hunt Never Ends....
Right on! :way:
JNRBRONC
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this is the same, but....
A friend took his wife and kids out for a pheasant hunt. They got stopped by a CO who asked to see hunting licenses for him and his wife. She didn't have a hunting license and was not carrying a gun. The CO said that technically, she should have a license because she could be considered as "assisting" the hunt. The CO did not issue a citation though.
From that little story, just walking through the woods could be construed as being part of a deer drive.
dominator
New Member
this is why our government never does anything. if we can sit here and argue for days over one sentence then think about this unreal 1000+ page health care bill that is being rushed through congress right now. laws are stupid we should go back the old days where the guy with the biggest gun is the judge.
scottonbuck
Well-Known Member
They just need a valid hunting license for the state. Example Hunter has tag for 1st. season shotgun, making him legal to kill a deer. Camera man has a state hunting license making him legal to sit in the tree and film.
JDUBS your post points out how terribly miss informed you are about Iowa and Iowa deer hunting. Perhaps I can help with your self-serving ill-formed opinion. First and for most this is most definitely not any kind of compromise on the part of the IDNR. If you just look at the raw numbers you could easily see how inane this comment is. There are 6000 NR any sex licenses issued of which 2100 are bow licenses, where party hunting is absolutely against the law, and in 2007 there were another 3300 antler-less only tags issued where this legal cheating was an issue. None of the 6000 any-sex license holders would need to take advantage of this because they already have a buck tag. That leaves the 3300 antler-less tag holders who might take advantage of a certain situation. Now if we assume a success ratio of 40 percent that means that 1320 of those tag holders are successful, so even if every one of those hunters shot a buck and had a "GUIDE" tag it for them that only means 1320 animals, which is hardly any kind of a management tool in any one's mind, even one that is slow and twisted. Also I have to believe that well over half or those successful hunters are stand-up guys who just enjoy deer hunting enough to actually tag a doe, so that would only leave 660 bucks "GUIDE TAGED".
The first Iowa deer hunt was held in 1953 and approximately 4000 deer were killed. I don't know, and can't find exactly when "party hunting" became legal but I know that it was the case in the late 60's. When I really started deer hunting in about 1972 we had to draw for the few licenses available and of those 75 or 80 percent were for bucks only, so an any sex tag meant that you had a much better chance to harvest at least some kind of a deer. I remember that our family group would consist of 10 to 14 people including kids. We would hunt (drive) deer hard for 2 days and might only see 8 or 10 deer and harvest 4 or 5. It was impossible to always have the right hunter with the right license in the right place when the deer started moving. Just like now, some times the sitters got the shooting and some times the drivers got the shots, and you sure hated to have some one with a buck only license have the 3 does in the timber walk past at 30 feet. That is why party hunting was the rule of the day, not to create a "compromise" for NR hunters, who didn't even come into play for another 25 years. :thrwrck:
As we continue to reduce our deer herd down ever closer to the IDNR's goal of only 170,000 animals, I for one, hope that they consider doing away with the whole NR license situation and let the 350,000 Iowa resident sportsmen and women who have supported the DNR programs maintain this ridiculously low population number.
DannyBoy
Well-Known Member
I have personally been asked by outfitters (no names necessary, they all do it) on more than one occasion if I would be willing to get a buck tag for shotgun season and let a NR client fill it. Ya I'd get to meet and hunt with some high profile hunters and maybe even other celebrities, yada yada yada! Blah blah blah! Of course I laughed and politely said no. But that's been a few years ago, so it's clearly been going on for awhile.
I think it's crooked as hell, personally. I think NR's who wanna slug hunt should be forced to abide by a different set of rules than residents to avoid this. Ya, I understand that some of you have family and such from another state that like to come back and hunt. But don't blame me for my opinion, blame outfitters and the current state of the industry concerning NR's. Pretty soon they'll rule our state. If you're a NR and buy a shotty doe tag, you should only be able to use that tag. Party hunting rules would not apply. YOU shoot a doe, YOU tag it and you DO NOT get to shoot a buck and slap some other dudes tag on it.... THAT WOULD be a useful management practice, it would eliminate the loopholes and after the required amount of applications by the NR, they'd eventually get their buck tag anyways. Ya, some more details would need to be ironed out, but it's a simple solution unless I'm overlooking something. We seem to be losing power to the NR's all the time...
I think it's crooked as hell, personally. I think NR's who wanna slug hunt should be forced to abide by a different set of rules than residents to avoid this. Ya, I understand that some of you have family and such from another state that like to come back and hunt. But don't blame me for my opinion, blame outfitters and the current state of the industry concerning NR's. Pretty soon they'll rule our state. If you're a NR and buy a shotty doe tag, you should only be able to use that tag. Party hunting rules would not apply. YOU shoot a doe, YOU tag it and you DO NOT get to shoot a buck and slap some other dudes tag on it.... THAT WOULD be a useful management practice, it would eliminate the loopholes and after the required amount of applications by the NR, they'd eventually get their buck tag anyways. Ya, some more details would need to be ironed out, but it's a simple solution unless I'm overlooking something. We seem to be losing power to the NR's all the time...