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THE BEGINNING OF THE END, ENJOY WHAT WE HAVE NOW!

R

Rod White

Guest
If the roomer I just heard this weekend was true, we should all enjoy the oppurtunities we have today at the trophy animals that our state is famous for. I have been told that we now have a rifle season. Yes, it is for doe only, but mark my words. This is the beginning of the end of what we all enjoy as trophy hunters, especially bowhunters here in the state of Iowa. For those of you who don't know me, I am an Olympic Gold Medalist in archery and now I am fortunate enough to make a living doing what I enjoy most and what got me started in archery, that's bowhunting. I doubt that few in my position would post this but I know many are thinking it. I feel, however, this may be the only voice or way I have to bring this to everyone's attention. I have always been extremely happy with the way Iowa DNR has managed our deer herd. Quite frankly, I moved here because of what our wonderful state has to offer. No matter if you are a bowhunter or gunhunter, you have to admit, the DNR until now has done a fantastic job with our whitetails.
That said, I was unbelieveably dissapointed and saddened to hear, if it is true, the DNR has opened the doors to the destruction of what we as hunters along with the DNR have created in this state. I have hunted for whitetails all across this nation. And I hunt public land for the most part. So those of you who own, controll, or hunt over a thousand or more acres may not be as concerned about this topic. But to the average bowhunter that hunts average hunting opportunities like myself, you should be very concerned. I don't have a lot of money so I don't lease any land, nor do I believe in it. I did once as an outfitter and unless my family is starving, I will never do it again. I do not want to be a contributor(by leasing land in any way)to the day when our sons and daughters cannot hunt without paying. I am still a bear outfitter, but on public land. The service I offer is to anyone who does not have the time to do all the work necessary to harvest a bear where I guide in Minnesota. Not to take the opportunity to hunt away from others. The little private land I hunt on is much appreciated though, I help bale hay and share my harvest with the farmers. I help where ever I can. If we all did that instead of handing out cash, we would all still have places to hunt. The farmers I hunt on are good friends and great people. I don't ever want to lose that to money.

Back to the main subject. In all the state's I have hunted in, NONE have what we have here. It is VERY clear that the states with rifles DO NOT produce the kind of whitetails we are so blessed with. Look around, Missouri hunters will tell you in most cases, a 130" whitetail is a pig where they come from. Talk to a Wisconisin bowhunter, I lived there for 3 years. About every two weeks they have a thing called T-Zone. It allows the rifling of deer about every two weeks from October to December, you think you know what nocturnal bucks mean. Hunt Wisconsin and it will redefine that phrase for you. Wisconsin hunters will also tell you how in most parts of the state, unless you have access to Buffolo County(better have some $ in your wallet), you may have to wait many a season to get a crack at a mature deer. In fact, in the area I lived in when they talked about a deer in the 180 class range, they were talking body weight. South and North Dakota hunters will tell you the same. The only exception is Texas(the high-fence, pet and kill state)and Kansas. In most cases in Kansas, the huge bucks you see on TV or in a magazine, are on large tracts of privately managed land. The only thing that somewhat protects Kansas is non residents can't buy tags over the counter for bucks. I love to hunt Kansas but I'll take waiting every two years for a tag to put on a 160+ any day over hunting every year for a 120 class deer. You will hear all this echoed in every rifle state in the east too. From Pennsylvania to Florida.
My point is this. Opening a rifle season, even just for does, not to mention we apparently nearly doubled the number of non-resident tags, is the beginning of the end to what we enjoy right now. The most frustrating part of all of this for me...I never knew it was coming until someone told me today after it was already voted on.
How can this happen. Please someone tell me this is a cruel joke someone is playing on me. I looked on the DNR website and found nothing of it. I did hear some kind of blurb about it though on the radio, so I fear it is true. I don't know what to do other than to voice my concerns to others like you who are reading this. All I can tell you is that no matter what they say, once they allow rifles in this state to hunt, they will never leave. And all I have left to pray for is a miracle to stop this but I fear it is too late. I know many may not agree with me, and to those of you who don't, just look at the states around you and what they have to hunt. With the increase of tags, comes the loss of the average guys land to hunt. Big money will show up soon to lease the land you hunt on out from under you, the only thing that stopped it before was they couldn't hunt every year. And what they consider a trophy usually has three more seasons to grow if it walked under our stands. And for all the guys who say I'm just a trophy hunter, I kill more than my fair share of does too, in our state and all the states I hunt. Your new non resident hunters aren't coming here though to shoot a doe. Thier leaving the population management to us, the residents, while in most cases, they leave with only antlers.
I don't have any answers or know what to do, I have called in to my legistators and DNR, but apparently I and others who have are not in the majority. At least that's what they say. But I have a hard time believing this. What else can we do? Inform others until we have a large enough voice I guess. If you have any ideas, leave them on this thread for others including myself. Or at least tell others of what is about to happen. In the meantime, I'll be praying for this to all change somehow. Not just for me, but for my son and daughter who will someday be knocking on doors to hunt. <font color="blue"> </font> <font color="blue"> </font>
 
It's at:

http://www.iowadnr.com/nrc/05jun/15.pdf

I have to say I think your over reacting a little, it's only for a few days in a limited area for does, I just don't see it as a spreading threat, hey if I'm wrong you can say I told you so.

I do agree that an any sex rifle season would be the end but I think the uproar caused by something like that would be more than enough to stop any future plans of the sort.

And there has been no increase of NR anysex tags. The legislature has to do that, the DNR can not.
 
That was a heck of a first post....and welcome to Iowawhitetail.com.

While there may be some truth to what you have said, I too feel that you might be suffering from "kneejerkitis."

There are many schools of thought on the subject.

1: Using rifles could aid in the reduction of does. The reason of course would be longer more accurate shots. The downside would be if they allowed it for anysex.

2: Most likely there would be less shots fired for deer harvest than there are now, and I would bet, less wounded unretrieved animals than using a shotgun. In any type of hunting there will be animals that are lost after the shot, but with a high power rifle the the chances are somewhat less.

3: Iowa already allows centerfire hanguns which in the right hands and with the right equiptment can be accurate at incredible distances.

4: Several of the States you mentioned currently using rifles are not lacking quality deer because rifles are in use, rather the the dates they are allowed to hunt with them. ANY type of gun, be it shotgun or rifle or Muzzleloader, that has a pre-rut season is more of a detriment to well managed herd than the weapon used to harvest them.

We all fear the unknown. Change is the unknown. Regardless of the fact that this new season has been already established, every hunter that is a resident of Iowa, and disagrees with the ruling, should still voice their opinion to the proper officials and agencies. Instead of praying for this to change, send a letter or make a phone call. Supertec has posted the contact information in a previous post concerning this issue. After you have made your calls and sent your letters, take a minute and pray for something that really matters.
 
Rod...welcome to Iowawhitetail and thanks for giving us your thoughts.
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You are not alone on this issue and yes they used the "back door" on this one.
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That was a long, well thought out post. I cant really have an unbiased opinion on this topic since I have hunted deer with a rifle for almost 20 years. Here in South Dakota we do hunt with rifles. You just forgot to mention the # of tags sold each year. Especially for the black hills. Only 4500-6000 tags. That figures out too about 1 tag for every 10 square miles. Now on the prairie if they allowed archery only we would have a success rate consistently in the single digits. It is possible, Ive done it, but getting a deer with a bow on open prairie is a daunting task. I would also have no problem if they had a special doe season here also. Everyone can use less does.

james
 
Welcome Rod.

I don't think your over re-acting one bit. If the limited rifle season stayed the same as it is right now and never ever changed, your could be over re-acting. But like you said, this maybe just the begining.

The best thing we can do as bowhunters is to be heard in Des Moines. It takes great numbers to do that but unfortunatly most will not say anything. I attended the state wide video conference in April and there were only a handful of questions and concerns about deerhunting. Even the chairperson running the conference suggested that they need more input from deer hunters, otherwise they have to assume for the most part deer hunters are happy with the rules.

Anyway, welcome again to the site. Maybe if you get up in the NE corner of the state you can give me a few pointers......
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Re: THE BEGINNING OF THE END, ENJOY WHAT WE HAVE N

Rod - Welcome to the site!

First off - Thank you for everything that you do with the National Archery in Schools Program. You are a huge asset to the program and industry! And yes as ghost said, it was a back door issue with the new seasons. I do agree with a lot of what you say. We as Iowan hunters need to start becoming more active to help preserve out hunting rights. Our legislators, Resource Commissioners, DNR and Dumacrate Vilsack are not hearing enough from hunters, only from the Big Business. If you want to help preserve hunting in Iowa get involved!

Again Rod, thanks for joining up with us, and I look foward to seeing you at the IBA Fall Festival in August!
 
Re: THE BEGINNING OF THE END, ENJOY WHAT WE HAVE N

You are not over-reacting, I live in a rifle county I believe! Rifles in Southern Iowa is a MISTAKE, a BAD MISTAKE!! They would kill more does if a doe tag was sold for a dollar during any regular deer season than having a doe season late in the year when everyone is burnt out and big bucks are shedding! You can thank all of our insurance co. for this brilliant back door move.
 
Re: THE BEGINNING OF THE END, ENJOY WHAT WE HAVE N

If the DNR really what to harvest more does they should think of when is there the most hunters in the field, the opening weekends of 1st and 2nd shotgun seasons. They should make the tags good for 2 does and 1 buck and sell the tags for $40- $50 ... All this is to the DNR is a money game, the more ways they can sell a tag the more money in there pocket. They really need to wake up when it comes to this rifle season. As it is right now there are way to many bucks being shot in the late doe season the way it is, with horns and sheds bucks, just think a week later and with a rifle and 200 plus yards away how could you tell if it a shed buck or not....

If they are so worried about the does and it is not a money game give the damm tags away in shotgun season.

Does anyone know if the IBA is getting involved in this issue???

Thanks for letting me vent!!!!!!!!
 
Re: THE BEGINNING OF THE END, ENJOY WHAT WE HAVE N

I think houston has a good point. There are many ways to bring the doe population down. We already have 2 high power seasons in the muzzleloader seasons. They havn't cut the mustard on the population. I don't think the DNR wants to bring down the population, I think its just window dressing for the insurance companys and the crop producing farmer.

I think the real beginning to the end is if we don't get the doe population in control and CWD does it for us!
 
Re: THE BEGINNING OF THE END, ENJOY WHAT WE HAVE N

Camoup - Yes we are involved in it, as much as we can. We were the first to find out about this the week before last. We got a hold of all the commission members and the DNR to find out what exactly was going on. It was a little leary at first as to what weapons were going to be used etc.. I talked to commission member francisco today over email. The Legislative Rules committee is supposed to be gettin back to me as to when they are going to address the issue. It is in their hands now! All I can say, is you guys and gals have got to get more involved in the process. They are not hearing anything from the hunters point of view. You have got to get in touch with these commission members, your legislators, your conservation officers, and all the guys at the local shops to inform them of what is going on! The IBA is the loudest, most heard voice in the state today as far as groups go. Although we dont have the State Farm money, we do have a lot of stroke in the right places, and we do have our own lobbysit at the state legislature that gives us updates a few times a week. We also ahve members on national boards that inform us of this going on nation wide! We have a very good working relationships with the DNR, and it is improving each week. We have Biologist Suchey out to our fall festival and banquet, and most of the DNR directors at our Spring Banquet. This is a great place to visit with them about your concerns. I cannot encourage you enough to join the IBA. We are one of the largest bowhunter organizations in the country. A big thank you to one of the Fore Fathers of the IBA Mr. Laverne Woock from Delta Targets. You would not believe what he has done for archery and bowhunting in the state of Iowa, and across the country. If you ever get a chance to meet him, by all means take the time and do it!
 
Re: THE BEGINNING OF THE END, ENJOY WHAT WE HAVE N

I spoke to Representative Paul Bell last week but I was unable to get in touch with him until Thursday (the day of the meeting and vote). When I told him about the proposal he was completely in the dark and not happy. I watched as he started making phone calls to find answers. We spoke again today and he continued to express how unhappy he was with this. He told me that he called many others who too had no idea that this was going down. He told me that in the spring the house will have a chance to shoot this down but he fears that damage will be done and the foot will be in the door. Bell told me about how vocal the insurance companies were during their session and that they brought in families of car / deer accident victims and this affected alot of the representatives.

Mr. Bell seemed very discuraged since the representatives had worked hard to develope a logical plan of supplying funds for more HUSH lockers and means for harvesting more does. Then this group, with way too much power (my words not his), slides this thing under radar and passes it.

Sure seems wrong to me that our elected officials take the time to hear from the public, make tough decisions, and then be willing to stand behind those decisions in the eyes of the public, yet this small group of people has the power to completely disregard what was done and do their own thing, with no one to answer to. Mr. Bell told me to tell everyone to contact each member of this committee and express your concerns. He also told me that many of the representatives do not share his feelings on this topic so it is still important to contact your own rep and let them know how you feel.
 
Re: THE BEGINNING OF THE END, ENJOY WHAT WE HAVE N

I'm with Rod on this one. The way they did this is as bad as what they did.
 
Re: THE BEGINNING OF THE END, ENJOY WHAT WE HAVE N

I spoke to a Representative on Friday and he was totaly unaware of the committe's vote or proposal. He did not like the rifle season at all and said he would check into it. This gentleman said he has been trying to get land owner permits that are valid for antlerless deer and any and all seasons with the approprate weapons. He also talked about outfitter licensing and trying to free up some acess by reducing the leased acres. He also said that this isn't a done deal yet because they still have to act on it. We all need to tell someone besides the people on here how we feel. We don't make the rules, but we can influence those that do if we let them know what we think and why.
 
I definately agree with what you are saying Rod and would like to thank you for your insight. I too feel the same as you do and would like to see things back the way they were when they were right. We as residents are taking care of the problem and our state is a bunch of idiots if they think non residents are going to get rid of our does. Not that I don't like NR's but like Rod said it is going to just lead to money to hunt. Just look at Illinois. I would hate to live there and try to hunt some good ground. Good ground over there can be leased for around 25 to 40 dollars an acre if you do want to hunt it though. Right now we are turning into Illinois with rifles which like Rod said is just a gateway to a all out rifle season.
We need to start speaking up louder and if they don't hear us we need to keep trying. I fear for our hunting heritage and hopefully we can maintain it.
 
A couple of other things to think about... Even though this is for antlerless deer only...This is an invitation to poachers in my opinion. There will be more than does being killed. Bucks will be picked off as well. And just wait until someone tries to put on a deer drive and kills their brother or child. Rifles are alot different than shotguns, and alot of resident deer hunters have never hunted with them. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think bucks WILL be poached and there WILL be safety issues.

Shep
 
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I never knew it was coming until someone told me today after it was already voted on.

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That should never happen again with a website like this, WE should be talking &amp; THEY should be asking HERE!

As I read the doe tag limits today, I as a bowhunter can't buy anymore doe tags in the county I hunt and I like doe meat over buck meat anyday.

so while we are fishing this summer the state "could" say we need a rifle season for the whole southern part of iowa and add bucks to it so we can draw more hunters in........They could, and we wouldn't know till it was passed through the house.

These days the law makers think they got to keep making new laws when things are slow, like it's the only think they can do.

letting rifle hunting start is just the $tart of big money taken over OUR DEER HERD. Bank on that

It's like the gun laws, they start at the botton with a plan of getting all guns taken away. it's wasn't for the NRA, no one would have guns to hunt with.

I don't like how the Goverment works without US.

Rod~Only one post???? come back and talk on Brother...........

Hood
 
Even though we do have a rifle season now (antlerles only), I doubt Iowa will ever have a true rifle season. Our topography isn't suitable, and our housed per square mile is to high to make rifle hunting safe and effective.
Our rifle season now is just a step to get our populations back into managable levels. Our deer pops are booming greatly year after year even when we have banner seasons. The dnr wildlife biologists can't figure out why, and they see this as a desperate time to use a desperate measure.
Right now the rifle season is only in a few counties. These counties are with higher deer populations, and with topography more suitalbe to using a rifle. If iowa was going to have a true rifle season, it already would of happened in the seveties and eighties.
So in away i think your right, this is the beginning of an end. A rifle season in iowa wont last but a few years. and if you always wanted to shoot a deer with a rifle do it and enjoy what we have now! A rifle season in Iowa wont last
 
yeah our taxes will go backdown too..hehe

Sorry, I just can't beleave that this is just a "few year thing". I say in a few years the counties that now have a doe rifle season will have a any sex rifle season. I been around this world long enough to know how things start small with big money backing it &amp; with a long plan to get what they want.
A BIG IOWA BUCK WITH A RIFLE....someone or some group of people with the cash and wants to hunt wiht Rilfe's is pushing the keys to a easy slotter from the roadside

Like all the land now locked up JUST for big money hunting that we said would never happen 10 years ago is now spreading through out the state and it's getting harder and harder to hunt without your checkbook in hand when you ask for permission. Our Bucks are worth MILLIONS of dollar to the state and the state likes money and the people in power like pay rises and will do anything to get it....

I'm at the low end of the chain, but I can see and know how the top end works. who's the fools or who fooling who. we are the fools that believe whatever they want US too.

They're going to use this to see if rifle's can be shot safely and not harm the locals and then ok a out and out rifle season in them area's..and why wouldn't they with the MILLIONS of dollar they can add...

It's all about the BUCK$
 
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