The dirty side of whitetail hunting........

[Sod Savage]

Pretty easy to spot deer damage in corn.

If you look at high density areas alot of the damage happens just before pollination. The deer being the brousers that they are will walk along and pullout the tassles from each corn plant. Taking off the top oh say 4-5 leaves and the tassle. That is the engine part of the plant and where it makes the most energy away from producing yield. Pretty easy to spot because the corn in August will be way shorter and no tassle. Probably losing 50% or better of your yield on plants that look like that.

Once you get later into the summer you can spot deer damage because deer being the brousers that they are will walk along and nibble off the tops of the cobs, usually along the edges of the fields where top end yield aren't possible but it still robs yield potential.

Then closer toward harvest as the stalks begin to dry down it doesn't take much to knock the corn plant over, so pretty much anything, deer, coon, turkey, you name it is causing damage just by being out there.

Then there is the winter loss where the deer come up en masse to eat silage out of the pit or the silage bag to the point that you have to move shed antlers out of the way so you can scoop up silage. Let me just guess on the light side that we feed 60 deer 5 pounds of silage a day. That is basically us encuring all the expense of growing, harvesting and ensling 1 acre of corn specifially for deer. Not to mention that on their way to the silage they stop by the round bales to grab a bite of alfalfa on the way.

I have no idea on how much monitary damage deer do on our farm alone but it is well into the 1000's. But nice to know some dude from indiana knows what is happening in Fayette and Clayton Counyt IA better than I do.

Also to the FB haters out there. You do realize that they lobbied pretty hard for hunters, fishermen, trappers, hikers you name it. Because there was a chance that landowners could be sued after that field trip deal a few years ago where that chunky woman fell thru a barn floor. FB fought for landowners to allow people onto their land with out fear or being sued because of an accident. Feel free to hate, but with out them pushing back on that law you might not have permission to hunt on your favorite piece of ground anymore.

I also like how the NR regulations are set up. Don't like it buy land some place else or move here.

Have I pissed in everyones cheerios yet? LOL


Have a nice day.

 

[Daver]

I think you make a good point that goes through the minds of SOME farmers. Let's think through this though....
What is THEIR solution (the farmers with "big problems")? After all, those are the guys that are screaming to FB and having FB lobby to wipe out the deer across the state. In these instances, if their neighbor's ground can't be controlled, wiping out deer across the rest of the state isn't going to help them anyways. They will constantly be an island of higher deer #'s and never be happy, even while everyone else suffers from lack of deer.

The reality is, the BEST and most REALISTIC approach is to have these farmers do all they can to put as much pressure on THEIR land as possible. A walk on program for hunting would likely be one of the best approaches. The solution is NOT to eradicate the deer everywhere else - which is what FB would ultimately like, whether they say so or not. So, if there's a better solution, I'd bet folks would have an open mind to it on either side of the issue. Ok, well maybe not FB folks but I know the reps, hunters, DNR, etc are listening.

Like you Skip, I also know people on all sides of this issue(farmers that think there are too many deer no matter how many there really are and meanwhile hunters that think there aren't enough no matter how many they are seeing...) and I really cannot see a good, workable solution that everyone is going to be happy with. I am thinking of one situation where 95% of the deer cover in a given section was owned by someone that bought it for deer hunting and wanted as many deer there are he could get. Guess what, it was totally surrounded by farms that were 95% tillable and those farmers wanted them all dead, by any means necessary.

The timber owner protected that ground like he had gold hidden there, meanwhile the surrounding farmers did themselves, or allowed others to do, about anything under the sun to shoot the deer down. There was plenty of conflict and neither side really made any headway in terms of coming to some sort of balance. (I have lost track of the details of this scenario now since the landowner with the timber sanctuary sold the ground.) While this was a virtual worst case scenario of conflict between neighboring landowners, it sure isn't the only one I am aware of.

I cannot accurately quantify the actual deer damage that was being done to the neighboring farms, but I kid you not when I say that on more than one occasion I watched nearly 100 deer stream out of that timber sanctuary and down into neighboring farm fields. So I have to believe there was some actual deer crop damage being done at some point in the year. (I do also agree with you that coons generally do far more damage than deer. But for all I know, that place never got trapped either! )

So I could understand the farmers feelings, although I didn't agree with their draconian solutions. In this case, and some others that I know of too, the farmers not only let people hunt their land, they actively recruited people they happened across in a nearby town that looked like hunters to come out and "shoot 'em all", etc.

I guess what I am trying to say is that your suggestion is valid IMO, but there so many variables that I think it will be very, very tough to come to any workable solution that will satisfy all.

I would be interested in an actual study of crop damage that fairly and accurately identifies where the real damage comes from. Hopefully with a real understanding of the issues there could be an educational effort following that helps landowners truly understand what percentage of their damage is from coons, nearby trees, deer, etc. I think there is a huge mish-mash of misunderstanding out there as to what is actually happening in crop damage situations, even amongst otherwise well informed and diligent farmers.

 

[hoosierhunter]

Pretty easy to spot deer damage in corn. If you look at high density areas alot of the damage happens just before pollination. The deer being the brousers that they are will walk along and pullout the tassles from each corn plant. Taking off the top oh say 4-5 leaves and the tassle. That is the engine part of the plant and where it makes the most energy away from producing yield. Pretty easy to spot because the corn in August will be way shorter and no tassle. Probably losing 50% or better of your yield on plants that look like that. Once you get later into the summer you can spot deer damage because deer being the brousers that they are will walk along and nibble off the tops of the cobs, usually along the edges of the fields where top end yield aren't possible but it still robs yield potential. Then closer toward harvest as the stalks begin to dry down it doesn't take much to knock the corn plant over, so pretty much anything, deer, coon, turkey, you name it is causing damage just by being out there. Then there is the winter loss where the deer come up en masse to eat silage out of the pit or the silage bag to the point that you have to move shed antlers out of the way so you can scoop up silage. Let me just guess on the light side that we feed 60 deer 5 pounds of silage a day. That is basically us encuring all the expense of growing, harvesting and ensling 1 acre of corn specifially for deer. Not to mention that on their way to the silage they stop by the round bales to grab a bite of alfalfa on the way. I have no idea on how much monitary damage deer do on our farm alone but it is well into the 1000's. But nice to know some dude from indiana knows what is happening in Fayette and Clayton Counyt IA better than I do. Also to the FB haters out there. You do realize that they lobbied pretty hard for hunters, fishermen, trappers, hikers you name it. Because there was a chance that landowners could be sued after that field trip deal a few years ago where that chunky woman fell thru a barn floor. FB fought for landowners to allow people onto their land with out fear or being sued because of an accident. Feel free to hate, but with out them pushing back on that law you might not have permission to hunt on your favorite piece of ground anymore. I also like how the NR regulations are set up. Don't like it buy land some place else or move here. Have I pissed in everyones cheerios yet? LOL Have a nice day.

They do eat the silks and baby ears but they can't reach the tassels unless they are the size of a moose literally!

are corn not easy to knock over? Not really Does it happen,yes, in drought years. When you see that happen on normal years its coons not deer for the most part...

Do deer damage your crops, I'm sure they do, but don't over exaggerate it like you did in that post.

Btw you know how much is lost. What's your computer program tell you on yields......

 

[Sligh1]

You 3's last 3 threads do have some valid merit, agree. Deer do damage, especially in super high #'s. Obviously so do coons, turkeys, etc while deer get most the blame.

As a farmer, you're just never ever going to beat nature though- whether it's floods, drought, disease, storms, wildlife, wind, poor soil, etc. Thankfully we have a lot of safety nets.... Insurance, high grain price years, high yield years, genetic advances of seed, etc. one has to be able to play the averages over time and adapt to situations that will come up. For example, I have a part of a field that is poorly drained even with tile - one solution is to enroll it into CRP and get a guaranteed payment that's very attractive. Areas around the timber I could do buffer strips. Adaptation could even include selling some land that's highly timbered with poor quality soil to go down the road to buy more productive ground that has less timber. I get it though, you guys are right, it's a balancing act.

One last set of thoughts we should keep in mind.... Farmers in general have done very well the last decade or even 2. Farmland prices have had double digit rises many of the previous years. Grain prices have come to record high's while most farmers did not incur more debt on their land as over 80% is paid for free & clear. 5% of iowa is timbered approximately, CRP is being taken out and wildlife eradicated at record pace here over the last 5 years. Habitat holding wildlife that are "crop destroyers" is gone in most the upper 3/4's of the state. Drive across highway 20, get past Des Moines on highway 35 - there's miles and miles of nothing but wide open & often lifeless ground. Section after section with hardly a drop of cover. and heck, i have a friendly debate with my own family who dozes every last stitch of grass & 12" shrub that pops up in NW iowa - I can walk a whole section & never kick u a pheasant or see a deer track - I see both sides of it often. I'm going to guess it's the vast vast portion of the state that's like that. I am not sure if the BALANCE is as far gone as some make it as we are living in the most transformed natural State in the country BUT that's one Joe Schmo making my own observations and my own opinion for whatever its worth. Good stuff though guys, some very valid perspectives.

 

[fletch920]

They do eat the silks and baby ears but they can't reach the tassels unless they are the size of a moose literally!

are corn not easy to knock over? Not really Does it happen,yes, in drought years. When you see that happen on normal years its coons not deer for the most part...

Do deer damage your crops, I'm sure they do, but don't over exaggerate it like you did in that post.

Btw you know how much is lost. What's your computer program tell you on yields......

You would first have to understand that he is saying they eat the top out of the plant when it is still small. They are eating the top several leaves and the part of the plant that includes the tassel before the tassel ever gets a chance to reveal. This kind of blows any credibility you may of had on the topic of corn and deer damage.

But the moose comment was a nice attempt at trying to make him look silly. So what if it backfired.....

 

[Sod Savage]

they eat the whorls, you know where the tassle is before it comes out, at say v5 thr v9. i am no idiot hoosier. i can see every night with my own two eyes deer coming out of the woods walking down the row with the whorl of the corn plants in their mouth. if you are ever in my neck of the woods any time after June 15th i will prove it to you. i would guess that yield is off 60-70 bushels in the hardest hit areas. we don't have a computer program that spit out yields unfortunatly, wish we did. again i am glad someone in indiana can tell me i am exagerating on what is happening in my corn field. if i wanted to truely exagerate on how many deer eat out of the silage bag i would have to say 200, but that might actually catch it. so i might have to say 300 to exagerate. there is litterally mutilple trails coming to the bag that are so hevily used that the deer poop dropings pave the trail for 100's of feet. if i am lyin i am dyin bud. its great deer hunting don't get me wrong but its expensive for our farm no doubt.

 

[hoosierhunter]

they eat the whorls, you know where the tassle is before it comes out, at say v5 thr v9. i am no idiot hoosier. i can see every night with my own two eyes deer coming out of the woods walking down the row with the whorl of the corn plants in their mouth. if you are ever in my neck of the woods any time after June 15th i will prove it to you. i would guess that yield is off 60-70 bushels in the hardest hit areas. we don't have a computer program that spit out yields unfortunatly, wish we did. again i am glad someone in indiana can tell me i am exagerating on what is happening in my corn field. if i wanted to truely exagerate on how many deer eat out of the silage bag i would have to say 200, but that might actually catch it. so i might have to say 300 to exagerate. there is litterally mutilple trails coming to the bag that are so hevily used that the deer poop dropings pave the trail for 100's of feet. if i am lyin i am dyin bud. its great deer hunting don't get me wrong but its expensive for our farm no doubt.

I trust you, but it sounds like your in a high deer density area.

Fayette and Clayton counties aren't slouches for deer.

What would you estimate your population per square mile?

How much ground do you own?

How many hunters are allowed on it?

What about your surrounding ground?

You get my drift...

 

[Daver]

...Drive across highway 20, get past Des Moines on highway 35 - there's miles and miles of nothing but wide open & often lifeless ground. Section after section with hardly a drop of cover...

C'mon Skip, there's all kinds of windmills up thataway for the deer to hide behind!

But seriously, you are right on. We are losing habitat like crazy in many areas of the state. It is very discouraging to see.

 

[Sod Savage]

theres a lot of deer, i have no idea per square mile, fewer than there were a few years ago

i would guess somewhere around 3000-4000 acres i never really added it up. most of that is timber/pasture but a pretty good jag of corn and alfalfa

lets see there are probably 10-15 bow hunters, 60-70 shotgun hunters, 20-25 muzzleloarders (some of these guys hunt mutiple seasons). we are probably pretty close to carrying capasity on hunters for deer/turkey. could use a few more coon hunters or beaver trappers.

almost every one of our farms are have some type of preserve by them either from people that own ground and don't let anyone hunt or are landowners that bought the ground for the sake of buying ground to deer hunt on and don't let anyone else on. so i realize that my area has more pressure than some.

that is one of the reason i get really chapped when i hear people belly aching about farmers, because farmers let you guys hunt. not the guys that buy the land and manage it for deer even tho they are the ones that aren't bulldozing fencelines. we don't doze fencelines wither.

i have a pretty good idea on what critters do what damage to the crops. beavers gotta be the most destructive in a small area of any of them.

 

[fletch920]

Fletch, not being critical but honestly everyone is not trying to make other posters look foolish with every comment or analogy. You make good points then become accusatory ending your posts. The moose comment was made to provide a visual not to demean. My opinion

No, he was again trying to distract from the fact that someone actually knows what they are talking about. Its the same theme for you guys.... use gross generalities that support your agenda, back-handed snide remarks and then group up and attack anyone that actually uses any real knowledge of the topic that proves otherwise. Its a bully tactic. Just like digging up a lot of personal details that have no bearing whatsoever on the topic at hand. Another bully tactic. Its the reason so many long time posters are long gone and why I seldom come here. If someone doesn't agree with the wants of the NR's, they are dog piled. It seems the site is very tolerant of it as well. Too bad. The bully tactic works for a lot of things, but so far it has not worked for NRLO tag preference and some of you are so frustrated by that, you stoop to this.

Its nice to see a few others like Sod Savage and Daver, etc., stepping up to the plate with facts and knowledge rather than selfish wants and demands. I applaud them and wish them luck. I hope they too don't become sick of the pushing and shoving here.

 

[hoosierhunter]

No, he was again trying to distract from the fact that someone actually knows what they are talking about. Its the same theme for you guys.... use gross generalities that support your agenda, back-handed snide remarks and then group up and attack anyone that actually uses any real knowledge of the topic that proves otherwise. Its a bully tactic. Just like digging up a lot of personal details that have no bearing whatsoever on the topic at hand. Another bully tactic. Its the reason so many long time posters are long gone and why I seldom come here. If someone doesn't agree with the wants of the NR's, they are dog piled. It seems the site is very tolerant of it as well. Too bad. The bully tactic works for a lot of things, but so far it has not worked for NRLO tag preference and some of you are so frustrated by that, you stoop to this. Its nice to see a few others like Sod Savage and Daver, etc., stepping up to the plate with facts and knowledge rather than selfish wants and demands. I applaud them and wish them luck. I hope they too don't become sick of the pushing and shoving here.

Fletch did you miss that muddy was actually talking about you being the one who causes all the problems and then tries to report others when they respond to you..........

There's a lot more that can be said and probably should be, but I'll leave it at that.....

Simply put, just quit being "that guy"

 

[fletch920]

Fletch did you miss that muddy was actually talking about you being the one who causes all the problems and then tries to report others when they respond to you..........

There's a lot more that can be said and probably should be, but I'll leave it at that.....

Simply put, just quit being "that guy"

You mean when they respond with personal information and veiled threats? Ya, I caught that. I was disappointed to see that the site seemed to condone the bully atmosphere to be quite honest. Probably why it will go the way of IowaDeer.com,and the membership will be run over by a few NR's that seem to yell the most and the loudest.

Keep yelling, the crowd will continue to dwindle and you guys will be talking to yourselves.

I will continue to be "that guy" that is not afraid to speak up for Iowa's sportsmen/women. Only because I am passionate about Iowa and our outdoor opportunities. We don't have a lot here to brag about. No oceans, no mountains, no whitewater,... cold climate. But, we do have some great deer hunting and a lot of good, hard-working people that deserve to have the opportunity to enjoy what we've got. For that, I will fight. I will be "that guy" because somebody needs to. Those that get the big picture understand very well what I mean. Those that don't, never will.

 

[IowaWhitetailMadness]

Have definitely seen bad effects of Outfitters through friends etc. I'll keep it short, but I there are a few positives as well. Just can't stand the thought of losing ground due to being sold out from under me because of the almighty dollar.

 

[MN2IAGuy]

Those that get the big picture understand very well what I mean. Those that don't, never will.

Your last part of your statement makes your whole point pointless!
Change is the only constant. And deer regulations will always be changing.

 

[fletch920]

Your last part of your statement makes your whole point pointless!
Change is the only constant. And deer regulations will always be changing.

It's okay. I know you focus on the smaller more selfish picture. I didn't expect you to get it. That's fine, you never will.

 

[GOARMY]

land

Have definitely seen bad effects of Outfitters through friends etc. I'll keep it short, but I there are a few positives as well. Just can't stand the thought of losing ground due to being sold out from under me because of the almighty dollar.

madness,

I just wanted to ask, Do you own the land that your on? If someone else owns the land you have to know someday it will be sold or trade hands through a family death or some other reason. I understand you or anyone being upset about losing access to ground, but if anything it should spur you on to work that much harder to buy your own.

I for one wanted stuff and was lucky enough to be in the right field and save my money and buy farms. I'm still going to school to this day and will until the day I retire cause I dont like being on the losing end of technology.

Now get pissed you lost a spot and work that much harder or smarter and I bet someday you too will have a farm you bought yourself.

Tony Montana: In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women. Nothing more TRUE than that.

 

[MN2IAGuy]

It's okay. I know you focus on the smaller more selfish picture. I didn't expect you to get it. That's fine, you never will.

Don't fool yourself about not acting in your own best interests! Everyone does except maybe Jesus. So let's not get too high & mighty!

 

[fletch920]

Don't fool yourself about not acting in your own best interests! Everyone does except maybe Jesus. So let's not get too high & mighty!

Please explain how me not wanting NRLO's to get tag preference is acting in my own interest. Keep in mind that I own two recreational farms. I will have good hunting for the rest of my life. And, if you get your way, my ground will increase in value.....A LOT.

So, again, please explain to me what I have to gain by standing up for my Iowa friends and neighbors that enjoy deer hunting but don't have the luxury of owning their own ground.

???????????????????????????

 

[MN2IAGuy]

You will gain their eternal gratitude!

 

[fletch920]

You will gain their eternal gratitude!

Please answer the question instead of deflecting.