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THE WISCONSIN STORY.....

My point excatly!!!!!!! And all you hear from hunters is there are no deer ? Like i said i can drive around my county in the evening last hr before dark and maybe on a good night see a couple of deer . thats it ! They used to say we had a 1.2mil population years ago and we shot almost twice the amount of deer look it up 95 thru 07 almost. Always over 400k now cant make 200k but acording to them more deer now!! Maybe there adapting and are better at hiding ???

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"We are in the neighborhood of all-time record high deer numbers in Wisconsin," Wallenfang said.

Why the huge drop in kill? https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/documents/deer_Prelimgun9day_2018v2019.pdf


Most of us remember hunting from 1999 to 2008 deer were thick. That's when kill all the does started look at the graph.
https://dnr.wi.gov/wideermetrics/DeerStats.aspx

If we are at an all time record in deer numbers why are we not killing the numbers we were back in 2006? Not even close.......The DNR numbers are incorrect.

https://dnr.wi.gov/wideermetrics/DeerStats.aspx?R=HarvestHistory
 
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One other comment. I was wondering what neighborhood you’re in Skip? You mentioned being surrounded by NR landowners from various states. In my neighborhood I’m the only NR landowner in all directions for a long distance over the past 17 years. I seriously do not know another NR landowner near me as I begin my 18th year in Iowa.

I’m surrounded by 8 resident farmers who all own big chunks, 600 to 1300 acres respectively, with great hunting. Other parcels are owned by residents as well. Btw, most do not permit hunting outside immediate family.

Curious is all.
 
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Wapsi Tree said:
So I did some digging. I'm not calling anyone a liar. I'll leave the finger pointing to you fellas in Wisconsin. I'd like to know what you guys think. The Wisconsin DNR is claiming a nearly 2 million deer population. That's about 4 times the number of deer in Iowa. Total BS? I'll link at the bottom.


The nine-day gun deer season, though, remains the most significant event in the framework of Wisconsin deer management, both in terms of participants and number of deer killed.

This year the season runs Nov. 23-Dec. 1.

An estimated 580,000 hunters are expected to take part.

Last year hunters registered 219,715 deer (106,038 bucks,113,675 antlerless deer and 2 unknowns) in the nine-day gun deer season, an 11% increase from the previous year.

Since the last severe winter in Wisconsin in 2013-14, the deer population has been building.

The statewide post-hunt deer populations were 1.09 million in 2014, 1.18 million in 2015, 1.34 million in 2016, 1.38 million in 2017 and between 1.5 and 1.8 million in 2018, according to DNR reports.

The deer population has grown during a period of mild winters and as hunting regulations have failed to meet harvest quotas in the farmland units.

This fall an estimated 1.97 million deer were spread across the state, according to a DNR estimate.

"We are in the neighborhood of all-time record high deer numbers in Wisconsin," Wallenfang said.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/spor...-sights-2019-wisconsin-gun-season/4192231002/
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That difference does not surprise me at all. WI has more than 4x (amount, not always necessarily quality) the deer habitat iowa has so why wouldn’t they have 4x the deer ?


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I'll make an analogy that most sports fans will understand and where the government of most states have it all wrong.

It goes like this.

Crappy product = crappy attendance.

The government/DNR in most states have liberalized deer season and or had policies that are supposedly aimed at drawing in more hunters. We need more opportunities with more seasons and more weapons they say.

Bullshit.

All that's happend is the hunting has gotten WORSE and even more people exit than are coming in. The numbers don't lie.

See in sports if you have a crappy product attendance will go down EVEN if you make admission easier and easier. It doesnt matter if you keep dropping prices, give tickets away, have gimmicky bobblehead night or whatever.... attendance will go down. You want to guarantee there are fans in the seats? Put a great product on the field.

You want to get more people excited about hunting? Do everything you can to put a great product in the woods while working on other things like access, mentorship programs, etc.

The liberalization of hunting seasons accomplishes one thing. The degradation of hunting quality. There arn't more people hunting because all of the sudden there is a new season with a new weapon.

It's cannibalization of what we all love.
 
Kaleb said:
That difference does not surprise me at all. WI has more than 4x (amount, not always necessarily quality) the deer habitat iowa has so why wouldn’t they have 4x the deer ?
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Some of the Wisconsin hunters are saying you can't hardly see deer anymore. Not uncommon to hunt all day and not see anything. However the DNR is reporting record numbers. Is the DNR fudging numbers to keep license sales up? What's your opinion on the population compared to years past?
 
Wapsi Tree said:
Some of the Wisconsin hunters are saying you can't hardly see deer anymore. Not uncommon to hunt all day and not see anything. However the DNR is reporting record numbers. Is the DNR fudging numbers to keep license sales up? What's your opinion on the population compared to years past?
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Depends where you hunt, just like any state. I don’t think my personal experience is any indication of the deer numbers really... the DNR has significantly more data. If they lie about that data that is another thing, but I don’t see why they would.

I do see lots of deer...


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Everything that the dnr has done in the past 10 years has been negative. However blame needs to be put on hunters as well for buying into what they were selling, you can't go all year complaining there no deer left and shoot the first doe you see. Theres pockets of highly managed properties where the neighbors and everyone in the area are on the same page and I'm very blessed to be in a neighbor hood like that on one of my leases. The other not so much but it still produces great deer from time to time.
 
MuddyHntr said:
Everything that the dnr has done in the past 10 years has been negative. However blame needs to be put on hunters as well for buying into what they were selling, you can't go all year complaining there no deer left and shoot the first doe you see. Theres pockets of highly managed properties where the neighbors and everyone in the area are on the same page and I'm very blessed to be in a neighbor hood like that on one of my leases. The other not so much but it still produces great deer from time to time.
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EXACTLY.
 
This place has been becoming Facebook Outdoors. Which I'm not a member. Skip and all the owners why not change the name to Iowa Archery Whitetails? Then nobody will be confused as to your agenda. To all who have educated me over the years I say thanks. It's been my go to place on the internet.
 
Fishbonker said:
Several thoughts come to mind after reading the comments from Wisconsinonians (Wisconsinites, Wisconsiners, Wisconsiniens, folks from Wisconsin). The first one is loss of hunting ground for locals. It seems kinda backassward that what we have fought for is giving NR hunters a chance to swoop in and take advantage of what we have made possible. Can you imagine how much access would be lost if we allowed NR landowners the ability to legally shoot up to three bucks a year? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for hunters from other states coming to Iowa but in manageable numbers. This is one of the issues that continues to show up every year.

We can learn very good lessons from the insights of others, all of the hunters Skip spoke with stressed how politics and money have changed hunting in other states. You can say that money runs politics so it is actually money or the grab for you hunting dollars that control the laws for hunting.

There is another aspect of money influencing legislation. At least one legislator that I know of has an axe to grind with the DNR for being fined for improper agricultural practices. Even though the fines come from the EPA side of the DNR the legislator takes every opportunity to vote against anything the DNR wants.

Another example of what might influence hunting laws is a legislator who has a very large grudge against the wildlife side of the DNR. I have heard speculation as to why that is but it is speculation only. I had a conversation with a gentleman the other day who says this legislator has threatened to propose legislation for a new season or at least add to second season gun that would allow a hunter to use any weapon (I assume gun) to kill deer. In other words it would be time to dig up that bazooka you've had buried in the back yard for the zombie apocalypse so you could practice for the zombies on deer. It is my fervent hope that this proposal never sees the light of day but it would increase gun sales so who knows?

Take home message from Skips summations: politics controls hunting laws and money controls politics.

Usually it's a couple of weeks into the legislative session before I get this depressed.
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I am a straight forward guy so don’t take this wrong, but Iowa created some of these issues themselves. First off, think of how many farms are owned by NR that have moved to Iowa?

The limited tags, left rec land lower in price and many scooped up big acres (Lakosky, Drury, Lindsey... tons of that).
Second the 3 buck tags draws them in. Put one buck tag out there and maybe they don’t come here?

Whether it’s resident or NR those large farms are pretty much off limits. Former NR buying big farms is no different than NR.

In each case some locals get to hunt yes, but the trend is bigger farms (control the acres).

What do you do? Buy land as soon as you can ?
Hunt public in Iowa, which is better than public in other states.

I’m all in on Iowa deer management but it’s not perfect. Three buck tags for local landowners is not “management” and your own rules and laws have caused more NR buyers/more acres due to the supply and demand issue.

Not trying to argue with you, but it’s a factor.
 
IMO- Everybody's opinions and talking about the problem have merit but in reality, it means nothing.

The likelihood of anything changing for the better on a state level is near zero. Most likely, it will get worse. So, if you plan to still be hunting in the next 10-20 years, you better be figuring out how to buy some land.

Owning land is a force multiplier. You can easily leverage 40 acres into 100's of acres of prime hunting ground by networking with your new neighbors.

So you can either still be complaining about the problem in the years to come or you can find a solution.
 
Lucky 13 said:
The likelihood of anything changing for the better on a state level is near zero. Most likely, it will get worse.
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That's exactly how I feel. There isn't a government out there that's saying "we need to be the state that grows the next world record typical buck and dominates the record books." The trend is for smaller herds and most likely a younger age structure. The glory years can still happen on a micro level, as everyone here knows.
 
Lucky 13 said:
IMO- Everybody's opinions and talking about the problem have merit but in reality, it means nothing.

The likelihood of anything changing for the better on a state level is near zero. Most likely, it will get worse. So, if you plan to still be hunting in the next 10-20 years, you better be figuring out how to buy some land.

Owning land is a force multiplier. You can easily leverage 40 acres into 100's of acres of prime hunting ground by networking with your new neighbors.

So you can either still be complaining about the problem in the years to come or you can find a solution.
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Agreed, and unless my priorities change or major life event that has been my goal for a long time. I've been working towards it for over 10 years now. I think within 5 years I should have something 40-80 acre range.
 
Hardwood11 said:
I am a straight forward guy so don’t take this wrong, but Iowa created some of these issues themselves. First off, think of how many farms are owned by NR that have moved to Iowa?

The limited tags, left rec land lower in price and many scooped up big acres (Lakosky, Drury, Lindsey... tons of that).
Second the 3 buck tags draws them in. Put one buck tag out there and maybe they don’t come here?

Whether it’s resident or NR those large farms are pretty much off limits. Former NR buying big farms is no different than NR.

In each case some locals get to hunt yes, but the trend is bigger farms (control the acres).

What do you do? Buy land as soon as you can ?
Hunt public in Iowa, which is better than public in other states.

I’m all in on Iowa deer management but it’s not perfect. Three buck tags for local landowners is not “management” and your own rules and laws have caused more NR buyers/more acres due to the supply and demand issue.

Not trying to argue with you, but it’s a factor.
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Also to consider is the relative economies of different states and the cost of land in different states. Average income on either coast is much higher than in Iowa and the price of land and general cost of living is higher as well. An average wage earner from the east side of America can't afford the high cost of land in their state but they can afford what used to be pasture ground, now called rec ground, in Iowa. I haven't researched this in recent years but I doubt it has changed.

EDIT: To misappropriate a line from a movie made in Iowa, we built it and they came.
 
Its not unique to Iowa. My neighborhood drive on the lake in Minnesota has cabin owners from Indiana, South Dakota and Arizona. Thousands of NR buy up here.

I know South Dakota has a ton of NR owned pheasant farms.

It’s the US you can buy anywhere you want.
 
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Idk Bonker in my neighborhood my resident ag farmer neighbors buy everything at market value whether it’s ag or rec ground. If you back up I’m surrounded by RESIDENT landowners in every direction owning big chunks.

I don’t know one NR landowner, besides me, for miles and I’ve been in Iowa for 18 years. NR hunters might come but landowners are a different story.

Point is residents/farmers have money. There have been recent parcels sold that I couldn’t afford that my neighbors gobbled up. Btw, my resident friends permit zero hunting. Not a NR landowner problem.
 
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Jdubs said:
Idk Bonker in my neighborhood my resident ag farmer neighbors buy everything at market value whether it’s ag or rec ground. If you back up I’m surrounded by RESIDENT landowners in every direction owning big chunks.

I don’t know one NR landowner, besides me, for miles and I’ve been in Iowa for 18 years. NR hunters might come but landowners are a different story.

Point is residents/farmers have money. There have been recent parcels sold that I couldn’t afford that my neighbors gobbled up. Btw, my resident friends permit zero hunting. Not a NR landowner problem.
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Things ebb and flow and vary from area to area...a few years back, many resident farmers were flush with cash following several boom years on the land...they were buying up about everything that wasn't nailed down, and for historically high prices. That activity has really dropped back now as farm incomes have slumped. Prior to that "run" it was more common in my area for a land buyer to be a NR buying ground to hunt on...specifically big Iowa bucks.

Things were crazy enough there at one time that I was approached 3 or 4 times in a year about selling my ground, each time to NR who was trying to score a farm so they could get in on the Iowa land rush too. During that period, and to Bonker's point above, I know of many farms that sold to wealthy, and even less than wealthy, NR's expressly as a place to hunt Iowa bucks. While that activity too has cooled, the second that NR's could be guaranteed a buck tag every year, there would be a land rush like never before. Ask any realtor that trades in these properties, all the ones I know have a list of prospective buyers in the event that it ever comes to pass.

Bottom line...it is now well understood by serious deer hunters everywhere that Iowa is a destination state. Relax the regs from where they are...and pretty soon we will start looking like the places that the serious hunters come here from. Put me down for a "nope" on that please.
 
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