Thoughts on deer prospects this year?

[Muddyrem]

Nothing will get rid of a non resident landowner more than waiting 5 or 6 years for a tag then finding out you've been bitch slapped by EHD. I guess only the fullness of time will tell how it plays out. Since EHD overwinters in cattle, that is where the effort should be. Breaking that cycle for a couple of years might be the ticket.

The 5-6 year wait in for archery tag. The issue lies the guys who abuse the doe tag loop hole during gun season. Those guys own ground, and then every member of their family will put in to draw, children, wife’s, grandmas, you name it. One draws and the rest buy doe tags. The farmer Joe blow up the road that hates deer also has a buck tag that can magically get bought. Once we get all this nonsense fixed, I think we’ll see these non residents slow up in buying land at whore house prices because they in fact will have to wait to kill a buck for several years.

 

[Thinkin Rut]

I hope you're right. EHD has been around for a while, but it seems like it's been most devastating in the last 10-15 yrs.

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Mutate, expand, roll and repeat. Nasty stuff

 

[thughart]

Funny how the non residents always get blamed. I’d bet NRs kill only a fraction of the total deer harvest per year and an even smaller percentage of trophy bucks in Iowa or any other state for that matter. Residents have no issues selling land to NRs for inflated prices. Residents feel comfortable leasing land to NRs at nose bleed rates. The counties love the taxes these NR landowners pay each year. The DNR has become dependent on all the high priced NR licenses and fees that NR hunters apply for each year. The hotels and restaurants greedily welcome the NR hunters who come and stay a week and dine in their establishments. After waiting 4 or 5 years to draw an archery tag, it would take 30 years to draw 6 tags. Do you really think an individual NR killing 5 or 6 bucks over a 30 year period is what has caused the decline of buck age structure in Iowa since 2008-2010 ? Give me a break. Some guys aren’t looking at this issue with an open mind. For every NR who abused the party hunting rule to take a buck while in Iowa hunting on a doe tag, there’s dozens of residents who shoot anything that moves on deer drives and settle up tagging deer when the drive is over. I’ve hunted all over the country for white tails and I assure you, when ya want to look for causes of deer decline, look no further than the low life element of resident hunters. Notice I did not claim all residents hunters. There’s always that element in any state.
Of the 6000 NRs allowed to hunt Iowa each year, only a small portion of those are landowners in the state. See how the idea of blaming NR land owners is flawed. I can guarantee you that way more of my out of state hunts have been screwed up by neighboring residents than NRs. It’s a numbers game….theres way more resident hunters ! When any issue involves emotion, there always the tendency to come up with a scape goat to blame. When it comes to the decline of deer hunting, blaming NRs is always low hanging fruit.


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[Muskrat24]

The 5-6 year wait in for archery tag. The issue lies the guys who abuse the doe tag loop hole during gun season. Those guys own ground, and then every member of their family will put in to draw, children, wife’s, grandmas, you name it. One draws and the rest buy doe tags. The farmer Joe blow up the road that hates deer also has a buck tag that can magically get bought. Once we get all this nonsense fixed, I think we’ll see these non residents slow up in buying land at whore house prices because they in fact will have to wait to kill a buck for several years.

Did this not get changed this year? For some reason I thought something with NR doe tags and party hunting had changed???

 

[Rjack]

Did this not get changed this year? For some reason I thought something with NR doe tags and party hunting had changed???

Yes. NR can no longer party hunt - they must tag their own deer only.

 

[Wayne 203]

Now seems like a perfect time to reply. Im a NRLO. Just got back from Iowa this morning. My son and his buddy bow hunted my farm and I hunted Missouri. Ive been using a party tag for years now with my family and Iowa friends. Not coming this year but my brother and wife are. There is a lot of sentiment and talk about NRLO in just the last few comments.
My farm is in Wayne Co. Wayne co issues 155 NR antlerless tags for the gun seasons. The last few years they have sold out. This year there are 90 tags left as of today. Im sure more will be bought but at almost $500 to be able to hunt one doe its not worth it to the guys like me and my family who played by the rules. Do the math in Wayne county alone for the licenses that go unsold. Say 90 tags unsold x $475 = $42750 lost revenue for DNR. The same is true in Alamakee county and a bunch of southern tier counties. How do you think DNR will respond to this lack of revenue especially if the trend continues for the next few years There is a great chart on Go Iowa Outdoors to track the sales if you are interested. It shows this year and past years. Since the rule change we are just going to alternate our gun applications so we have someone every year buck hunting.
I know I got off topic. My son killed what we considered a bully buck that was on every inch of our farm and the neighbors, and his buddy got a decent 4.5 yo. We are blessed that we have a decent population where we are and so far no EHD this summer

 

[Muddyrem]

Now seems like a perfect time to reply. Im a NRLO. Just got back from Iowa this morning. My son and his buddy bow hunted my farm and I hunted Missouri. Ive been using a party tag for years now with my family and Iowa friends. Not coming this year but my brother and wife are. There is a lot of sentiment and talk about NRLO in just the last few comments.
My farm is in Wayne Co. Wayne co issues 155 NR antlerless tags for the gun seasons. The last few years they have sold out. This year there are 90 tags left as of today. Im sure more will be bought but at almost $500 to be able to hunt one doe its not worth it to the guys like me and my family who played by the rules. Do the math in Wayne county alone for the licenses that go unsold. Say 90 tags unsold x $475 = $42750 lost revenue for DNR. The same is true in Alamakee county and a bunch of southern tier counties. How do you think DNR will respond to this lack of revenue especially if the trend continues for the next few years There is a great chart on Go Iowa Outdoors to track the sales if you are interested. It shows this year and past years. Since the rule change we are just going to alternate our gun applications so we have someone every year buck hunting.
I know I got off topic. My son killed what we considered a bully buck that was on every inch of our farm and the neighbors, and his buddy got a decent 4.5 yo. We are blessed that we have a decent population where we are and so far no EHD this summer

I guess I’m not following……….

There’s left over tags because there was that many people “abusing” the “partying hunting” and so therefor now those same people don’t want to come buy a 500$ doe tag because in reality it was a 500$ neighbor, friend of a friend, Betty sue up the road, Tom from town; buck Tag.

 

[JNRBRONC]

Lots of blame to go around. Not going to single out any one group as it’s all additive. Too many seasons, too many (new modern) methods of take, too much segmentation of properties. We can be our own worst enemies pushing agendas.


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[Thinkin Rut]

Say 90 tags unsold x $475 = $42750 lost revenue for DNR.

Hopefully they see it as unintentionally gained prior to the new law.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

On the topic of lost revenue there are some very easy replacement fixes. I'd start by making resident LOT tags the same price as regular tags. That would WAY more than replace any NR lost doe tag income right there. I wouldn't mind a tag increase across the board either on regular tags, provided the money stays within the DNR and goes to helping the resource and law enforcement. When you look at the cost of a tag spread out across the length of the season, it is pennies on the dollar compared to nearly any other form of recreation.

Then there is the topic of NR tag pricing. I know they are already expensive, however, the demand is clearly there. They could double the price (not saying they should), and there would still be a multi-year waiting list. There is some equilibrium to be met between demand and pricing. It's probably a bit out of whack at the moment.

Before NR get bent out of shape about the last item, note I am saying raise price on resident landowners first if there is revenue concern. My 2c.

 

[hillrunner]

With the

On the topic of lost revenue there are some very easy replacement fixes. I'd start by making resident LOT tags the same price as regular tags. That would WAY more than replace any NR lost doe tag income right there. I wouldn't mind a tag increase across the board either on regular tags, provided the money stays within the DNR and goes to helping the resource and law enforcement. When you look at the cost of a tag spread out across the length of the season, it is pennies on the dollar compared to nearly any other form of recreation.

Then there is the topic of NR tag pricing. I know they are already expensive, however, the demand is clearly there. They could double the price (not saying they should), and there would still be a multi-year waiting list. There is some equilibrium to be met between demand and pricing. It's probably a bit out of whack at the moment.

Before NR get bent out of shape about the last item, note I am saying raise price on resident landowners first if there is revenue concern. My 2c.

With the landowner tags becoming a floating tag this year, it should absolutely be the cost of a regular tag, if not more. If you want a $2 tag, you should pick a season like before.

 

[JBAGS]

On the topic of lost revenue there are some very easy replacement fixes. I'd start by making resident LOT tags the same price as regular tags. That would WAY more than replace any NR lost doe tag income right there. I wouldn't mind a tag increase across the board either on regular tags, provided the money stays within the DNR and goes to helping the resource and law enforcement. When you look at the cost of a tag spread out across the length of the season, it is pennies on the dollar compared to nearly any other form of recreation.

Then there is the topic of NR tag pricing. I know they are already expensive, however, the demand is clearly there. They could double the price (not saying they should), and there would still be a multi-year waiting list. There is some equilibrium to be met between demand and pricing. It's probably a bit out of whack at the moment.

Before NR get bent out of shape about the last item, note I am saying raise price on resident landowners first if there is revenue concern. My 2c.

I'm NR and agree on tag costs. I think they should double the cost of the tag and start there, see what demand does and re-adjust as needed to get it back down to a 2 year wait vs. 5-6 as it is now. This would create more revenue even if the tag sales slide down.
$6-700 dollars for a NR tag to be able to hunt for a couple months is too cheap IMO. If the season was a week or two long only, then I could see it being priced ok.

This also won't be popular opinion I'm sure with residents, but I also think a NRLO should get some type of bonus point when they buy a preference point, or some type of help towards getting a tag sooner rather than being on the same level as just a NR that doesn't own land.
To be clear, I am NOT in favor of just opening it up to NRLO's as I understand the land rush mess that would create.

 

[DMarley83]

I'm NR and agree on tag costs. I think they should double the cost of the tag and start there, see what demand does and re-adjust as needed to get it back down to a 2 year wait vs. 5-6 as it is now. This would create more revenue even if the tag sales slide down.
$6-700 dollars for a NR tag to be able to hunt for a couple months is too cheap IMO. If the season was a week or two long only, then I could see it being priced ok.

This also won't be popular opinion I'm sure with residents, but I also think a NRLO should get some type of bonus point when they buy a preference point, or some type of help towards getting a tag sooner rather than being on the same level as just a NR that doesn't own land.
To be clear, I am NOT in favor of just opening it up to NRLO's as I understand the land rush mess that would create.

I would agree with almost all of this except for the last part of non resident landowners. You cannot crack pandora's box And even peak insidewithout it blasting wide open eventually. I do not think We should dabble at all ,zero ,with with non resident qualifications. Yes the price should go up on tags across the board especially non resident tags. That's the $ maker.

Every single non resident that comes to iowa to hunt white tail dear leaves a state with white tail deer. It is not a rare geographical placement here Like elk sheep moose etc..... Let's be real we come here for a trophy hunt! I'm okay with that And one hundred percent understand it. With any trophy hunt is always a trophy fee. So with the 5 to 6 year wait period for archery clearly the price isn't maxed out yet. Would I pay 1,000 + to buy a whitetail deer tag in Michigan if the had bigger deer than I had in my home state??? IDK, maybe but probably not every year.

I hate the idea of hunting becoming a rich man sport however this isn't just "hunting" here. It's trophy hunting otherwise why pay $1,000 + to hunt a whitetail. Like said before If it lessens demand to much adjust...

Lastly I do feel for those here prior to the huge IOWA SPOTLIGHT. They are going to get the raw deal. The price, the length of time to drawl and many other things. However thing always change. Just the way it is. There is never a way to satisfy everyone. Adapt or get left behind.... If it is important enough to you do what many others already have. Move here and help in the fight of Keeping Iowa Great Again!!!!

 

[JBAGS]

I would agree with almost all of this except for the last part of non resident landowners. You cannot crack pandora's box And even peak insidewithout it blasting wide open eventually. I do not think We should dabble at all ,zero ,with with non resident qualifications. Yes the price should go up on tags across the board especially non resident tags. That's the $ maker.

Every single non resident that comes to iowa to hunt white tail dear leaves a state with white tail deer. It is not a rare geographical placement here Like elk sheep moose etc..... Let's be real we come here for a trophy hunt! I'm okay with that And one hundred percent understand it. With any trophy hunt is always a trophy fee. So with the 5 to 6 year wait period for archery clearly the price isn't maxed out yet. Would I pay 1,000 + to buy a whitetail deer tag in Michigan if the had bigger deer than I had in my home state??? IDK, maybe but probably not every year.

I hate the idea of hunting becoming a rich man sport however this isn't just "hunting" here. It's trophy hunting otherwise why pay $1,000 + to hunt a whitetail. Like said before If it lessens demand to much adjust...

Lastly I do feel for those here prior to the huge IOWA SPOTLIGHT. They are going to get the raw deal. The price, the length of time to drawl and many other things. However thing always change. Just the way it is. There is never a way to satisfy everyone. Adapt or get left behind.... If it is important enough to you do what many others already have. Move here and help in the fight of Keeping Iowa Great Again!!!!

Fair enough, we agree on most of it. I'm not saying crack open the box cause I am not in favor of what that would do but for owning land and paying taxes on a farm and there is zero tag benefit to a guy that pays zero into the state as just a NR, isn't right. Again, that's just my opinion. Maybe if they raised tags enough and it got down to only a couple year wait, this would be a mute point and it wouldn't matter as much.
I have owned land long enough here to see it go from every 2 year wait in zone 4 or 5 to now pushing 6 years. The pendulum has swung too far and I think a huge tag cost hike would get it back in line where I feel it should be.

 

[whitetail_obsession]

I'll share my experience from yesterday. My brother and I drove around SC IA public hunting areas and surrounding private ground for 5 hrs. This is zone 5 and the most highly coveted NR hunting ground. Granted it was hot for this time of year but it's November. We saw a total of about 40 deer and most in the last 20 min. Only one buck over 140. I would say about 15-20% of parking lots had vehicles and 95% were residents.

I also have run the same amount of trail cameras the past few years. I save any "nice" buck pictures. I usually have all my cameras pulled by December. Compared to 2022 and 2023 my "nice" buck pics are down overall 50% with less than 15 days to go.

People can blame who or what they want but the deer population and especially mature bucks are way down in my area. I talked with a guy from Louisiana who said he had bigger bucks on his private back home than he's seen here. He has buddies who are also hunting that are upset. They say 6 yrs ago there were big bucks everywhere but now they're gone and not seeing anything. I had 2 guys from MI last year who have been coming whenever they drew the past 20 yrs say the same. They said you could see a 120" almost every sit but now you struggle to see one.

For what it's worth I blame overharvesting, EHD and straight walled cartridges. Just thought I'd share what I'm seeing and hearing.

 

[Windlooker]

I’ve stated this many times on this site and it’s deemed sac religious. The popularity of Iowa hunting, influx of nrs, influx of nrlos, the breakup of large land tracts for affordability, outfittters, the push for additional methods of take and so on comes back to one common denominator, the Iowa resident video stars.

Not saying it was intentional but we now have the result. While all this has happened they hunt their 1000/2000 acre tracts, continually grow big deer, track him with cams, kill em n call it hunting and profit from Iowa’s resource; while 95% of Iowans suffer with poor quality deer. Heck I’ll grow you booner in MI on 1000 acres. Most don’t have that luxury. Without the exposure this doesn’t happen. My .02.

 

[YtailFreak]

There is one factor no one seems to talk about. Settling.
The age structure hasn't recovered from the last 10 years of EHD. Rather than having a handful of 5 and 6+ yr olds to chase like in the good old days, guys hunt younger deer because that's the best they have to hunt. How will the age class ever recover? Especially when you add in all of the other factors mentioned in previous posts. Straight walls, long range muzzle rifles, more effective killers, more hunters, etc

I fear it's like a perfect storm and Iowa will never get back to what it once was.

 

[Thinkin Rut]

Once the last pockets of good hunting succumb to EHD, seasons, firearms and all that has been thrown at it, once the NR's talk amongst themselves and once hunters figure out they have been misled by the no fence high fence celebrity hunters, at that point the new cycle and the rebuilding will begin. To encourage higher tag cost to the DNR almost implies they have done a stand up job...they haven't. The best things in life money can't buy. Back off the does, improve your habitat and kill coyote, wait for the storm to pass.

 

[whitetail_obsession]

I’ve stated this many times on this site and it’s deemed sac religious. The popularity of Iowa hunting, influx of nrs, influx of nrlos, the breakup of large land tracts for affordability, outfittters, the push for additional methods of take and so on comes back to one common denominator, the Iowa resident video stars.

Not saying it was intentional but we now have the result. While all this has happened they hunt their 1000/2000 acre tracts, continually grow big deer, track him with cams, kill em n call it hunting and profit from Iowa’s resource; while 95% of Iowans suffer with poor quality deer. Heck I’ll grow you booner in MI on 1000 acres. Most don’t have that luxury. Without the exposure this doesn’t happen. My .02.

I agree. I grew up watching those shows and moved to IA because of them as I'm sure many others have also. I believe those shows will lose popularity over time as they become unrelatable to your average hunter. It's already happening with YouTube channels. What happens to them if the general population stops supporting their hobby? If they don't support the average hunters it will eventually impact them too financially

 

[whitetail_obsession]

There is one factor no one seems to talk about. Settling.
The age structure hasn't recovered from the last 10 years of EHD. Rather than having a handful of 5 and 6+ yr olds to chase like in the good old days, guys hunt younger deer because that's the best they have to hunt. How will the age class ever recover? Especially when you add in all of the other factors mentioned in previous posts. Straight walls, long range muzzle rifles, more effective killers, more hunters, etc

I fear it's like a perfect storm and Iowa will never get back to what it once was.

I think it's natural for people to chase the biggest deer they have available to them. I can't blame people for not passing a good deer when they can't control what happens to the deer on that property as I find myself in the same situation on public.

You're right about having a difficult time recovering and I feel the only way it recovers is to get the deer population back up. Reducing doe tags or becoming a one buck state may be the only option given the other factors which can't be controlled anymore. I've seen this movie before and we're headed in the wrong direction which requires a change to reverse course. It will be an uphill battle against all the groups who want all the deer dead