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Timber Burn Question

bowman

bowman

Super Moderator
I live on 2.5 acres with approximately 1.5 acres in a timber that is L shaped. The outside if the L is bordered by the neighbor's stubble bean field. The very inside of the L is a 1/4 acre food polt, the rest is bordered mowed grass.

How do you know if you should burn and how do you go about it? I have lots if head high honey suckle, hackberry, and choke cherry, mostly honey suckle. The larger trees are tighly spaced walnut with the ocasional dead cedar. There are alot of dead elm both standing and down. Should I consider a burn? It is so thick that I can only get through on my cut trails.

I also have about 10 small pin and white oaks that I planted last year. All are caged and approximately 2-3 feet tall. They are planted in the few open areas that I have.

So should I consider a burn and if so, how do I do it? Would I gain anything? Will anything kill that honey suckle? Thanks in advance!
 
Fire won't kill honeysuckle, but it will knock back some of the other brushy species. Don't get me wrong, fire is great for managing timber, but some species won't get nuked by it.
Since it is a small area you could certainly try a burn and then cut and dope or just dope the remaining honeysuckle. That stuff is a menace and just gets worse if it is left alone.
And watch out for your little oaks....they can get killed if the fire gets too hot.
Also, once you get a timber on fire, be prepared to babysit the smoldering logs and other dead trees. Some of those could burn for weeks on end.
 
I have never done this, so I can't say this will work for sure, but it seems like it should...

What if you went in the timber pre-burn and used a leaf blower or even a rake at the base of the desirable species like small oaks and blew/raked the surrounding leaves away from the trunk? I think with a leaf blower you could make quick work of a small area like this and then set your fire, trusting that without the adjacent leaf cover the fire would essentially bypass your vulnerable young trees.

BTW - although I have never participated in a timber burn per se, I have done many grassland burns and oaks are generally a hardy, fire resistant species. I agree though you may want to protect smaller trees, etc.

I am going to do a timber burn this year though. It just sounds like a cool thing to do and by the sounds of things it will be healthy too.
grin.gif
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">used a leaf blower </div></div>

I think that's exactly what Farmland QDM uses to make fire breaks in his timber burns.

Farmland is the one to ask about timber burns but I think most young oaks are pretty tolerant of burns.

A gas powered leaf blower is (I think) a pretty essential item ! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
Thanks guys! Last questions......how do you start the fire? Does it take off easily like a grass fire? And finally, what would you use to nuke the honey suckle?

Thanks again!
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how do you start the fire?

And finally, what would you use to nuke the honey suckle?
</div></div>

Some folks use a drip torch but I always just use a good "lighter"....so far starting the fire hasn't been as much problem as stopping it /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

Leaves are usually pretty easy to get burning and from what I have seen, it just creeps (versus a raging switchgrass fire /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif
The amount of leaf cover, moisture content, humidity and winds will determine how high and fast it burns.

I would imagine timing would be important as far as setting back the HS...perhaps after it has leafed out even, but I'm not really sure on that one.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I live on 2.5 acres with approximately 1.5 acres in a timber that is L shaped. The outside if the L is bordered by the neighbor's stubble bean field. The very inside of the L is a 1/4 acre food polt, the rest is bordered mowed grass.

How do you know if you should burn and how do you go about it? I have lots if head high honey suckle, hackberry, and choke cherry, mostly honey suckle. The larger trees are tighly spaced walnut with the ocasional dead cedar. There are alot of dead elm both standing and down. Should I consider a burn? It is so thick that I can only get through on my cut trails.

I also have about 10 small pin and white oaks that I planted last year. All are caged and approximately 2-3 feet tall. They are planted in the few open areas that I have.

So should I consider a burn and if so, how do I do it? Would I gain anything? Will anything kill that honey suckle? Thanks in advance! </div></div>

I am a huge proponent of using prescribed fire as a habitat management tool but on the ground you have described I would not recommend a burn. Fire should be used in oak sites and from what you described it sounds like a walnut site to me. Fire could and likely will damage your walnut trees and reduce their merchantable value ... if you care about that. If you don't care about the economics of your standing timber ... you could try a burn but unless you have a considerable amount of grass under your stand, I doubt you will get the results you hope for. Like others have said, honeysuckle is very hard to kill with fire and it is unlikely that there will be enough fuel needed to carry a hot fire and kill the honeysuckle.

I would try a combination of cutting the larger honeysuckle plants with a chainsaw, apply Tordon RTU to the stump and then handspray any seedlings you find over the next several years. Lots of work but on a small property it's doable. You can also thin out your overstory to promote the walnut or whatever species you desire ... including your oak seedlings.

Burning is a great tool but a I don't think it will work in your situation.
 
I would guess that burning with the wind is hotter and preferred. Is burning into the wind (for safety reasons) a waste of time?
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys! Last questions......how do you start the fire? Does it take off easily like a grass fire? And finally, what would you use to nuke the honey suckle?

Thanks again! </div></div>

Hard to beat a drip torch if you are going to play with fire .... I have used a terra-torch (looks like a flame thrower) and have even dropped napalm balls out of a helicopter in Idaho but for burns in the mid west a drip torch is the way to go.

Timber burns rarely "take off" like a grass fire, they usually are hard to get going but it depends highly on the weather and your fuel on the ground.

I don't think anything will "nuk" honeysuckle ... the stuff is hard to kill ... but I have used Tordon and Round-up with some success.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would guess that burning with the wind is hotter and preferred. Is burning into the wind (for safety reasons) a waste of time? </div></div>

I often burn into the wind ... burning with the wind usually provides taller flames and more heat for a short duration but many woody species have a harder time surviving a slow backburn because of longer exposure to the heat, giving the fire time to kill the cambium layer (inner bark).

This can also burn off little oak trees but oak is a species that will almost always sprout back from the root system and grow like a weed the next year. This is one reason why oak and fire go well together.
 
Thanks everyone! The knowledge here always amazes me. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
We keep leaf blowers in our brush-fire trucks. They work great in dense areas where the water trucks can't reach.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We keep leaf blowers in our brush-fire trucks. They work great in dense areas where the water trucks can't reach. </div></div>

Heck you got it made Skully!

Little practice session at your place sounds in order /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We keep leaf blowers in our brush-fire trucks. They work great in dense areas where the water trucks can't reach. </div></div>

Heck you got it made Skully!

Little practice session at your place sounds in order /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif</div></div>

Problem is that they work for beer! I think they all have hollow legs. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We keep leaf blowers in our brush-fire trucks. They work great in dense areas where the water trucks can't reach. </div></div>

Heck you got it made Skully!

Little practice session at your place sounds in order /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Problem is that they work for beer! I think they all have hollow legs. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

A guy could go broke! </div></div>

ya mean there is some other reason to work?

Guess if I have the same type of "leg"...I should be able to blend in with the crew... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
Click to expand...
 
Why would anyone want to kill Honeysuckle?

It's incredible winter deer food... high in protein and carbo's...

I would love to have 80 acres of it..

Bronc
 
Re: Why would anyone want to kill Honeysuckle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's incredible winter deer food... high in protein and carbo's...

I would love to have 80 acres of it..

Bronc </div></div>

I think Farmland QDM could answer it better...but Amur honeysuckle is an invasive that is spreading and taking over.

It displaces native species an inhibits growth of desirable hardwoods.

It's an example of a "good thing gone bad".... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif
 
Re: Why would anyone want to kill Honeysuckle?

I would rather have 80 acres of oak timber than 80 acres of bush honeysuckle ... and too many people fail to understand why in time you won't have both.

In some habitats I can understand the benefit of honeysuckle, but many species in the honeysuckle family have tremendous reproduction capabilities that give them a huge advantage over most native vegetation. Everyone has the right to plant it, grow it, propagate it, and love it on their own property, but the thing that I hate about honeysuckle is the fact that it will not stay on the property it was planted on, and then the rest of us are forced to deal with getting rid of it.
 
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