letemgrow
PMA Member
I really cannot blame IA for not letting NR landowners get any-deer tags every year without a draw. If they did that, there would be lots of land being bought up and fewer places for residents to hunt. If the entire state of IA was like southern IA habitat wise things may be different.
magnus
PMA Member
SaskGuy: Yes, a farmer farms my land. No rental fee. I let him keep/market his crops, in exchange for leaving 20% of it stand for the wildlife. No commercial timbering, just timber-stand-improvements, to improve the habitat quality. Re: Govt programs ... there were 3 CRP contracts in place prior to me owning. Inherit it? No. Bought with hard-earned, after-tax, personal dollars. Why? Because I fell in love with the quality of IA whitetails after I drew a tag one year. Didn't even kill a great buck. Old and mature, but not great scorer. What else have I done for the state of IA? How about, buying one of the recently auctioned non-resident Gov tags!! Amount I had to pay, just to hunt my own land, is embarassing (and ridiculous).
Boonie: Yes, I will admit feeling some sense of entitlement and privilege ... because I pay the same taxes on my property as a resident would pay. As far as hunting tags, you residents get way better odds and *TWO* state-wide tags, in addition to a land-owner tag (if you're an owner). On the other hand, we non-resident landowners are getting screwed big-time, pure & simple, by not getting the same landowner tag ... despite paying all of the same expenses as any other landowner. I have confidence that your legislators are more rationale and realistic than you seem to be, and will get this injustice corrected before much longer.
magnus
PMA Member
What does Income Tax or sales tax have to do with LANDOWNER rights? I pay property taxes, the same as any resident does. So, any landowner should get landowner benefits. It should have nothing to do with resident or nonresident.
RE: managing does ... that has everything to do with the resident/nonresident status. I'd definitely be on my farm killing does, if the cost of doe tags were anywhere reasonable. But at $200 for (1) tag, sorry, I can't afford it or the time. Plus, killing 1 doe won't make a bit of difference. If you guys want the quality of your deer herd to improve, you're going to have to come up with a way to let nonresident landowners kill more does on their properties. Here in PA, if you submit a reasonable management plan to the Game Commission, you can get pretty much as many doe tags as you want for $6 each ($26 each for nonresident landowners).
jjohnson
Well-Known Member
All that really matters here is that you knew the laws before you bought the land.
Wasn't a big deal waiting to draw a tag when you didn't own land. Why again do you think we have such quality animals?
letemgrow
PMA Member
IA has proper management for mature bucks thats why :way:...they may to tweak the doe harvest some tho, or more IA hunters need to start shooting more does in the appropriate areas.
Go ahead and send down your managers to MO whenever you guys are done with them.
Magnus, since you are answering questions, how about a couple more? How much land do you own in your own home state? If you own land there do you get landowner tags there? As I read the PA regulations it appeared that if you apply for landowner tags your are required to allow public hunting for all seasons and all game for a full year from June to June. Is this really true? Would you do this same thing if Iowa made this change and if not, why not? I am sorry that you think our regulations are ridiculous and old fashioned, but it is the main reason you choose to buy 210 acres here instead of in PA isn't it? How in the world is getting an any deer tag every year actually going to help you manage your property and what makes you think that as the deer move over fence lines that all your neighbors aren't managing the deer well enough? I would bet there is plenty of fence line hunting going on. I asked a couple of these questions to Jdubbs but he chose to ignore them, I hope you do better.
I am sorry that you think our regulations are ridiculous and old fashioned, but it is the main reason you choose to buy 210 acres here instead of in PA isn't it? How in the world is getting an any deer tag every year actually going to help you manage your property and what makes you think that as the deer move over fence lines that all your neighbors aren't managing the deer well enough? I would bet there is plenty of fence line hunting going on. I asked a couple of these questions to Jdubbs but he chose to ignore them, I hope you do better.Bowmaker,
We owned 200 acres in PA. Most PA landowners do not buy landowner tags, and we did not. We were able to manage the deer that passed through our property by simply purchasing the only buck tag allowed per hunter and one doe tag per hunter. At times we purchased a bonus doe tag if available. In addition, we did allow hunting and only gave permission to the number of hunters consistent with a pre-determined number of deer we wanted killed. Some landowners, mostly farmers, engage in "green tag" or "red tag" hunting which label their farms as problem deer areas. The farmer is given many tags, numbers I'm not certain of, to allocate to anyone he chooses to hunt day or night the entire year. These programs are more of an eradication than hunting programs and we did not participate. We did practice QDM but to no avail. As I stated earlier there are too many hunters and deer simply do not have the chance to grow old.
Another consideration is the non-hunting population in PA. PA has a large population(12 milliion in 46,000 sq.mi.) and it is difficult to find a piece of real estate that doesn't hold a house, trailer, mobile home, camp, etc. In IA it is common to find a secluded piece of timber, crp, etc. where nobody lives.(IA has 3 million people in 56,000 sq.mi.) I have a small farm in Iowa in a one square mile block of timber that contains one home, not happening in PA. In PA unless you own property, or know someone who does, hunting is a difficult proposition. Properties are held close to the vest, patrolled and hunted relentlessly.
Lastly, I don't think Magnus said getting one anysex tag would make a big difference, but stated being able to buy several doe tags at a reasonable price would enable a NR landowner to manage deer on their properties.
We owned 200 acres in PA. Most PA landowners do not buy landowner tags, and we did not. We were able to manage the deer that passed through our property by simply purchasing the only buck tag allowed per hunter and one doe tag per hunter. At times we purchased a bonus doe tag if available. In addition, we did allow hunting and only gave permission to the number of hunters consistent with a pre-determined number of deer we wanted killed. Some landowners, mostly farmers, engage in "green tag" or "red tag" hunting which label their farms as problem deer areas. The farmer is given many tags, numbers I'm not certain of, to allocate to anyone he chooses to hunt day or night the entire year. These programs are more of an eradication than hunting programs and we did not participate. We did practice QDM but to no avail. As I stated earlier there are too many hunters and deer simply do not have the chance to grow old.
Another consideration is the non-hunting population in PA. PA has a large population(12 milliion in 46,000 sq.mi.) and it is difficult to find a piece of real estate that doesn't hold a house, trailer, mobile home, camp, etc. In IA it is common to find a secluded piece of timber, crp, etc. where nobody lives.(IA has 3 million people in 56,000 sq.mi.) I have a small farm in Iowa in a one square mile block of timber that contains one home, not happening in PA. In PA unless you own property, or know someone who does, hunting is a difficult proposition. Properties are held close to the vest, patrolled and hunted relentlessly.
Lastly, I don't think Magnus said getting one anysex tag would make a big difference, but stated being able to buy several doe tags at a reasonable price would enable a NR landowner to manage deer on their properties.
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magnus
PMA Member
Bowmaker: I own 110-ac in PA. Not sure where you're reading those regs, but your info is inaccurate. Long story but in a nutshell, there are numerous ways to legally hunt anterless deer on your own property. None involve having to allow the general public to access or hunt your private property. PA is divided into 21 management units. Each has a different allocation of doe tags that can be applied-for by hunters (residents and nonresidents). First-come, first-serve. The unit where I reside has a doe allocation of 110,000 tags. So, basically, if someone applies in a timely manner they can get an unlimited #. In addition, any landowner can get additional tags for their property but this is limited to 2-tags per hunter ("DMAP"). You need to rely on trusted friends if you own property that needs a larger doe harvest. My friends and I harvest between 10 - 20 does per year from my property, depending upon the year. Buck-wise, last year we killed 4. My co-manager and myself killed a 5yo & 4yo (verified by cementum annuli) in archery season, my 14yo nephew killed a 1.5yo in rifle season, and a chronically ill friend killed what he thought was his biggest buck ever (turned out to be a 2.5yo, but he was happy). That was it for antlered deer.
Getting an antlered deer every year as a landowner would not necessarily help me manage my property better, but it is the reason that I purchased 210-ac in Iowa --- to be able to hunt trophy-class whitetail bucks. I'm trying to make my 210-ac the best it can be for attracting mature bucks.
Don't know what else to tell you. As said, I am confident that your legislators will do the right thing and allow nonresidents to receive the same landowner benefits as residents. We already incur the same liabilities...
Getting an antlered deer every year as a landowner would not necessarily help me manage my property better, but it is the reason that I purchased 210-ac in Iowa --- to be able to hunt trophy-class whitetail bucks. I'm trying to make my 210-ac the best it can be for attracting mature bucks.
Don't know what else to tell you. As said, I am confident that your legislators will do the right thing and allow nonresidents to receive the same landowner benefits as residents. We already incur the same liabilities...
I have been staying out of these conversations recently because they really go nowhere but there is one argument that is driving me crazy. Everyone says we live here, we work here, we pay taxes here, we this and that here. I can't help but wonder why the unemployed homeless guy can still get a resident tag but a nonresident landowner can't get anything but a $300 gun doe tag. Just wondering.
KSQ2
PMA Member
Magnus, why don't you just buy land in Kansas like everyone else, you can hunt every year no problem, and for what you sell your land in Iowa for, you could probably buy twice as much in Kansas. It's only a few hundred miles further, why not go for it? I'll tell you why, b/c Kansas has gone to pot with liberal regulations that hang residents and non-residents out to dry! Be thankful for what you have in Iowa -- you get to hunt amazing bucks there every three years, and EVERY year in your home state of Pennsylvania -- how many buck harvests a year does it take to satisfy you anyway?!!! I'm pretty happy with one every couple of years myself.
scottonbuck
Well-Known Member
Insert the club swinging gremlin beating the dead horse. You knew the rule before you bought land in Iowa and now suddenly you are getting screwed. So now you are trying to convince our Legislature who we as Iowan's voted into office, and who represent us the residents of Iowa to change the rules and regulations because you spent money to buy land in this great state of Iowa and you cant get a buck tag every year. Hmmm So you and your so called Friends of Iowa are sending money to Des Moines to line some senators pockets so he will tell all his friends that you are getting screwed and it is wrong. Mr Senator says to his friends hey I know these guys cant vote for you in the next election but they will line your pockets very well if you see things there way, and we can go sip martinis and golf whenever we want. All we have to do is sell out the residents of Iowa and we are set.
If want to kill a big buck every year you should sell your ground in Iowa and buy a guided hunt in Illinois everyear I hear of a place Called Hadley Creek they will do whatever it takes to get you buck. EVERY YEAR!!!!!!!
If want to kill a big buck every year you should sell your ground in Iowa and buy a guided hunt in Illinois everyear I hear of a place Called Hadley Creek they will do whatever it takes to get you buck. EVERY YEAR!!!!!!!
You knew the rules when you bought in Iowa, if I hear that again I am going to puke. The rules are all subject to change. There is no rule against lobbying legislators for changes, there is no rule for wanting other rules to change. In America many rules have changed over the last 50 years. To compare allowing Non Resident landowners a doe tag and a buck tag to what has gone on in Kansas and Illinois is like apples and oranges. No one is breaking the rules, just playing by them to try and get them changed.
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scottonbuck
Well-Known Member
Apples to Oranges, Not really. In kansas for instance every non resident landowner is guranteed a any sex tag every year. Heck for that matter any non resident is pretty much guranteed if they apply. Illinois unlimited non resident any sex tags. See the pattern if Iowa was to gurantee a non resident landowner tag every year dont you see a rush of non residents coming to buy land in Iowa. Ask any realtor that sells recreational / hunting land in Iowa what the #1 limiting factor in selling land is and they will tell you it only drawing an any sex tag every three years. To say that it wouldnt effect Iowa like it has Kansas or Illinois is BS. So get your barf bag ready to puke because you knew the rules and regs when you bought ground here so quit raising your Im gettin screwed flag.
How is a NR landowner tag and a general NR tag the same thing. That is what is going on in Illinois and Kansas. The only effect NR landowner tags would have on your state is an increase in land values. How terrible. I would hate for ground to be more valuable, that would be a terrible thing. Illinois is overrun with outfitters, not non resident landowners. Apples to oranges like I said.
Maybe we should not allow non resident farming, Iowa does have some pretty good soil. Or better yet, you could farm it every 3rd year.
There was a time when there were no deer seasons due to a lack of deer. The rules and regs have changed to allow deer hunting. I don't hear any crying about that.
Maybe we should not allow non resident farming, Iowa does have some pretty good soil. Or better yet, you could farm it every 3rd year.
There was a time when there were no deer seasons due to a lack of deer. The rules and regs have changed to allow deer hunting. I don't hear any crying about that.
Increasing land values are only good for someone looking to sell land not for those wanting to buy or who are keeping what they have. And encouraging NR's to buy a piece of land for a guaranteed anysex tag pretty much guarantees a loss of access to ground by resident hunters who don't own their own land. That loss of access has already caused problems and will be a downward spiral into a pay to play situation that is NOT in keeping with Iowa's hunting traditions and NOT conducive to recruiting new hunters.
magnus
PMA Member
The way I understand it (and I may be wrong), the landowner tag system in KS allows alot more than just one landowner tag per property. They can get multiple tags based on the property size, plus they can sell them (to outfitters, etc) if they don't want to use them personally. And they're good zone-wide, not just for their individual property. So, a totally different system than what we're talking about here. IMO, a landowner tag should be for use by the landowner on his/her own property only. And there also needs to be a system for getting a handful of doe-only tags at some nominal cost, so a landowner can somewhat manage things on his property.
kurtish
Member
If I purchased land in the hopes that Iowa would change their laws for me, I'd be a little salty too. I guess I don't understand why they sell their doe tags for such an outrageous price, but beyond that the non-resident LO has nothing to cry about. There are alot of states out there that produce top-end mature deer that would allow you to hunt every season. If you don't like the laws in Iowa it would be simple to pull up stakes and purchase elsewhere.....you actually don't have any stakes to pull, just sell and buy in a state that doesn't need to change it's rules/regs to appease you.