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buckmaster
Guest
ive never shot a muzzleloader before but have always been intrested in trying it. what would be a good starter gun that wont cost me an arm and a leg?
ps preferably a new in-line model
wanting to buy a muzzleloader
- Thread starter buckmaster
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BowHunter84
New Member
CVA is pretty good, and Thomson Center has some good starter guns.
both are at a pretty good price range. I got my CVA for 160.00 not too bad.
both are at a pretty good price range. I got my CVA for 160.00 not too bad.
J
jason
Guest
What are you interested in? A tradional style muzzle loader, or a new in-line? If you want a traditional style, i would go for a CVA.
But if you want an in-line style, I would go with T/C. Yoy can get the Thompson Center Black Diamond Rifle and starter kit for only $270! Which is a good deal for a great gun!
Jason V
But if you want an in-line style, I would go with T/C. Yoy can get the Thompson Center Black Diamond Rifle and starter kit for only $270! Which is a good deal for a great gun!
Jason V
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buckmaster
Guest
what about accuracy, and dependability i hear a lot about guns not going off when they should is this just a fluke accident or does it coe with the gun?
BowHunter84
New Member
Jason,
CVA makes in-lines as well.
I havent had any problems with my cva, went off every time. I would suggest getting a gun that uses 209 primers. Less of a chanse of misfires with those. The most i have had was like 1 secound delay, and i think that is because im using an old box of primers, heheh Price you pay when you dont have money. haha
CVA makes in-lines as well.
I havent had any problems with my cva, went off every time. I would suggest getting a gun that uses 209 primers. Less of a chanse of misfires with those. The most i have had was like 1 secound delay, and i think that is because im using an old box of primers, heheh Price you pay when you dont have money. haha
J
jason
Guest
I know CVA makes in-lines. I just don't know anything about there in-lines, so I can't say anything about them. A younger boy from my school went youth season with a CVA rifle, he took his first buck with one. So they can't be a bad gun for the money.
I got my dad the 209 primer conversion kit for his reminton! We shot it to day for first time with the 209, no misfires, and hardly any delay from pulling trigger until powder is lit!
Jason V
I got my dad the 209 primer conversion kit for his reminton! We shot it to day for first time with the 209, no misfires, and hardly any delay from pulling trigger until powder is lit!
Jason V
H
horst
Guest
I bought an American Knight last year at wallmart, they should start clearancing them pretty quick now.I paid 130$ for the whole kit.Theyre good guns and I very rarely have trouble with misfires.
A lot of what you hear about them not going off has very little to do with what brand of gun it is, as long as you keep everything dry and dont bring a loaded gun from the cold outside into the warm air inside they will all go off.This causes condensation inside the barrel.CVA and TC also make some good affordable inlines and I believe if you want the 209 primer they are cheaper in those two lines then the knights are that shoot 209s.TCs come laser sighted, my uncle was only an inch from the bullseye with his first shot right out of the box with the scope on the gun.Try some different ones out and find one you like, most companies now offer an affordable, dependable inline
A lot of what you hear about them not going off has very little to do with what brand of gun it is, as long as you keep everything dry and dont bring a loaded gun from the cold outside into the warm air inside they will all go off.This causes condensation inside the barrel.CVA and TC also make some good affordable inlines and I believe if you want the 209 primer they are cheaper in those two lines then the knights are that shoot 209s.TCs come laser sighted, my uncle was only an inch from the bullseye with his first shot right out of the box with the scope on the gun.Try some different ones out and find one you like, most companies now offer an affordable, dependable inline
Well Buckmaster, most people who read this post believe in Knight or Thompson Center but it sounds like your are on a budget so I will pass on another idea.
I was just at Cabela's in Owattona and they have CVA Staghorn magnums there for 74.99. That is a 209 inline primer ignition, 150 grain magnum load capable rifle tapped and ready for scope mounts. I could not believe it, I've paid more than that for air rifles, so I just had to buy one to see how accurate I can make it. I personally do not shoot a CVA, however my 77 year old father shoots an old CVA in-line Blazer he has had for maybe 15 years and it shoots great out to 100 yards.
So if you are on a budget and want to buy a starter rifle, this might work for you.
IaCraig
I was just at Cabela's in Owattona and they have CVA Staghorn magnums there for 74.99. That is a 209 inline primer ignition, 150 grain magnum load capable rifle tapped and ready for scope mounts. I could not believe it, I've paid more than that for air rifles, so I just had to buy one to see how accurate I can make it. I personally do not shoot a CVA, however my 77 year old father shoots an old CVA in-line Blazer he has had for maybe 15 years and it shoots great out to 100 yards.
So if you are on a budget and want to buy a starter rifle, this might work for you.
IaCraig
kbgibby
Threebeards
I bought a CVA Hunterbolt Mag at Cabela's in KC at their Grand Opening sale for $99 (They sell in the catalog for $149). It's uses 209 shotgun primers and can handle three 50-grain Pyrodex pellets. I've only shot it with two pellets and had great luck sighting it in - 3" group at 75 yds (from a bench) with open sights using 295 grain Powerbelt bullets. It has the fiber-optic sights that really show up. I went 50 cal. but they sell it in 45 as well.
Great gun for the price even when it's not on sale.
Great gun for the price even when it's not on sale.
Hello,
A well respected gunsmith I know says TC stands behind their products better than any other and that TC's are very well made guns (the best, in his opinion).
I dont' know what I'd say. I've had a TC Renegade for almost 20 years and it has been an excellent rifle. Shoots as good today as it did the day I bought it, in fact, which is pretty good. And it's built like a tank. But it doesn't compare with today's inline's, accuracy wise, but, then, that's just because of old technology; it's not the gun's fault.
I've been shooting a Knight Bighorn for the past several years and it will shoot 1-2 inch groups at 100 yards all day long. And it's a solid little rifle. However, the old sidelock was just as easy to clean (despite what Knight's ads claim), and the Knight, in my opinion, isn't, really, any more reliable either. Keep the powder dry and the flashport clean, and, sure as the world, the gun will go off - old sidelock or new in-line!
My Bighorn will hangfire, and eventually not fire, if I keep shooting dozens of shots on the range without cleaning the flashport (and you you'll be hard pressed to get the breech plug out!) Keep it reasonably clean, though, and it will fire every time, guaranteed. Same with the old TC and #11 caps. I can never remember a misfire, while hunting, with my old TC and #11's. It's as reliable as the sunshine.
What I hate about my Bighorn is the fact that it takes a special (expensive, easy-to-lose, can't-hardly-find-'em-anymore tool) to get the stupid 209 primers out after firing, on occasion! They stick in there like they are permanently affixed! I carry a pair of small needle nose pliers around now to accomplish this. It's a pain. Sure be nice to find a gun where the 209 primer just pops out EVERY shot! Seems like with all the whiz-bang inventer engineers out there that someone could come up with a gun like this. Maybe they have already? Don't know, too busy trying to get the stupid primer out of my Bighorn!
A former sniper tested some in-lines a while back and claimed that the TC's have the best open sites of all guns he tested; the Remington the best trigger, while the Knight tested was quickest to get sighted in. Don't remember if he tested any CVA's or not.
The key to good accuracy is to experiment with bullets and loads and to swab the barrel clean after every shot. Also, keep powder charges, to 100 grains or less. Some folks may beg to differ but no rifle I've ever shot was MORE accurate with 150 grains of powder than it was with 100 grains or less (My Bighorn likes 80-90 grains of 777 the best).
Also, take the advice of others here regarding moisture condensation. I learned this the hard way. You don't need to! Once charged, keep the gun outside during hunting season, don't bring it back into the warm house!
All this said, though -- and sorry for the ramble here -- but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a bad gun in today's marketplace, regardless of make. It's a competitive world out there and duds just don't stay on the market long! You can buy a hechuva lot of gun for a $200 bill if you do some looking around.
Just a few things that work for me -- take from them what you want....
Hope you find the gun that's makes you happy! Good hunting....Raven
A well respected gunsmith I know says TC stands behind their products better than any other and that TC's are very well made guns (the best, in his opinion).
I dont' know what I'd say. I've had a TC Renegade for almost 20 years and it has been an excellent rifle. Shoots as good today as it did the day I bought it, in fact, which is pretty good. And it's built like a tank. But it doesn't compare with today's inline's, accuracy wise, but, then, that's just because of old technology; it's not the gun's fault.
I've been shooting a Knight Bighorn for the past several years and it will shoot 1-2 inch groups at 100 yards all day long. And it's a solid little rifle. However, the old sidelock was just as easy to clean (despite what Knight's ads claim), and the Knight, in my opinion, isn't, really, any more reliable either. Keep the powder dry and the flashport clean, and, sure as the world, the gun will go off - old sidelock or new in-line!
My Bighorn will hangfire, and eventually not fire, if I keep shooting dozens of shots on the range without cleaning the flashport (and you you'll be hard pressed to get the breech plug out!) Keep it reasonably clean, though, and it will fire every time, guaranteed. Same with the old TC and #11 caps. I can never remember a misfire, while hunting, with my old TC and #11's. It's as reliable as the sunshine.
What I hate about my Bighorn is the fact that it takes a special (expensive, easy-to-lose, can't-hardly-find-'em-anymore tool) to get the stupid 209 primers out after firing, on occasion! They stick in there like they are permanently affixed! I carry a pair of small needle nose pliers around now to accomplish this. It's a pain. Sure be nice to find a gun where the 209 primer just pops out EVERY shot! Seems like with all the whiz-bang inventer engineers out there that someone could come up with a gun like this. Maybe they have already? Don't know, too busy trying to get the stupid primer out of my Bighorn!
A former sniper tested some in-lines a while back and claimed that the TC's have the best open sites of all guns he tested; the Remington the best trigger, while the Knight tested was quickest to get sighted in. Don't remember if he tested any CVA's or not.
The key to good accuracy is to experiment with bullets and loads and to swab the barrel clean after every shot. Also, keep powder charges, to 100 grains or less. Some folks may beg to differ but no rifle I've ever shot was MORE accurate with 150 grains of powder than it was with 100 grains or less (My Bighorn likes 80-90 grains of 777 the best).
Also, take the advice of others here regarding moisture condensation. I learned this the hard way. You don't need to! Once charged, keep the gun outside during hunting season, don't bring it back into the warm house!
All this said, though -- and sorry for the ramble here -- but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a bad gun in today's marketplace, regardless of make. It's a competitive world out there and duds just don't stay on the market long! You can buy a hechuva lot of gun for a $200 bill if you do some looking around.
Just a few things that work for me -- take from them what you want....
Hope you find the gun that's makes you happy! Good hunting....Raven
Shredder
Life Member
There are a lot of good muzzelloaders out there, it is just finding the one that fits your budget. I have the TC Encore and think it is one of the best guns/muzzlloaders out there. I like the versatility you get with this gun. I can also make it into a turkey gun, slug gun, varmint rifle, deer rifle or larger big game rifle.
The cost is a little higher but if you can afford it, you should never have to buy another gun again, just barrels
Hope you find what you are looking for
Shredder220
The cost is a little higher but if you can afford it, you should never have to buy another gun again, just barrels
Hope you find what you are looking for
Shredder220
BowHunter84
New Member
Well i think for good quality guns i would get a knight, yea, but for a really good gun i was considering getting the Thompson Center Encore, i like the fact that you can change that barrels!
I too have seriously looked at the Encore, and I have decided to pass for now. Buckmaster said he is new to Muzzleloading and wants to get started in the game without spending big dollars. From from my research the cheapest I can get a new Encore with a cheap scope would be $660 + tax:
Encore 50 cal rifle...... $535
Scope bases & rings.. $25
Budget level scope.....$100 (I probably would spend more than $100 on the scope)
Also, the interchangeable barrels idea cost more than I was expecting too. I've been told around $300 per barrel, and if you add a minimum of $125 for a scope and mounting hardware for $425+ the cost loses some of the appeal for me.
In my opinion. Encore seems to be a wonderful gun. But for me it is too much to spend on a muzzleloader when the technology is changing so quickly, and there are so many affordable options.
IaCraig
Encore 50 cal rifle...... $535
Scope bases & rings.. $25
Budget level scope.....$100 (I probably would spend more than $100 on the scope)
Also, the interchangeable barrels idea cost more than I was expecting too. I've been told around $300 per barrel, and if you add a minimum of $125 for a scope and mounting hardware for $425+ the cost loses some of the appeal for me.
In my opinion. Encore seems to be a wonderful gun. But for me it is too much to spend on a muzzleloader when the technology is changing so quickly, and there are so many affordable options.
IaCraig
F
fgruetzmacher@msn.com
Guest
I just got 2 words.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOmega.
Gritty, the WI boy.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOmega.
Gritty, the WI boy.
M350
PMA Member
AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED THER ARE ONLY TWO MUZZLELOADERS TO OWN--AFTER THOUSANDS OF SHOT--THOMPSON CENTER AND KNIGHT STAND A TOP THE BEST OF THE BEST. MY 45 DISC IS DEADLY. AT 100 YARDS WITH A CLEAN BARREL AFTER EACH SHOT(100 GRAINS OF AMERICAN PIONEER POWDER STICKS AND A 225 GRAIN AERO TIP BULLET), W ILL DROP IN VIRTUALLY THE SAME HOLE!!!! THE BARREL WAS SEASONED WITH FLITZ METAL POLISH PRIOR TO USE. THE THOMPSON CENTER GUNS RANGE IN PRICE FROM BLACK DIAMOND TO OOOOOOOOMEGA TO ENCORE---YOU CHOOSE YOUR PRICE POINT AND YOU WONT BE UNSATISFIED WITH ANY OF THESE 4 CHOICES.
BW
Member
Find a dealer and check some wholesale catalogs.
Some of the wholesalers are clearing out older models like Knight MK-85's and other rifles for some pretty good prices.
I picked up a NEW in the box Stainless MK-85 for $175 recently.
Or look for a good used one.
Everyone seems to be going to the 209 primer/150 grain rifles and there are some perfectly good older models to be picked up.
(Must be time to reinvent the wheel
)
Some of the wholesalers are clearing out older models like Knight MK-85's and other rifles for some pretty good prices.
I picked up a NEW in the box Stainless MK-85 for $175 recently.
Or look for a good used one.
Everyone seems to be going to the 209 primer/150 grain rifles and there are some perfectly good older models to be picked up.
(Must be time to reinvent the wheel
If you want to start BP hunting you will do much better with good equipment. I just looked on Cabelas site, and they are selling Knight Disc rifles for $370.00. You can't go wrong with one of these guns. I shoot one with 110 grains of Pyrodex and 200 grain Knight redhot bullets. If you try this sport you will get hooked and if you start with a cheap gun you will want to get a good one very quickly. Why not skip this step and just start with the good stuff, also a quality gun will get you more money back if you ever want to sell it. One thing is a must for any of these guns, KEEP IT CLEAN. Read the instructions or have an experienced person show you how. Start shooting and have fun!