What county?

[Sligh1]

Is it really that bad in the well known counties in Iowa? I figured not having the gun season during the rut would offset the high grading to a large extent.

Hunters have become too effective if at least a few high potential bucks can't slip through the gauntlet even in Iowa.

Absolutely has taken a beating. I talk to folks in any direction from me… any distance… 2 miles or 20 miles …. The average farms are for sure much harder & the amount of mature bucks way less. I’d guess I’ve had “500” of these discussions & just listening to guys in the last 10 years.
On flip side- Is there still some mature bucks- absolutely- ANY county or area… Could be guys in “jasper, Greene, Marshall, Floyd, Hancock,” WHATEVER…. All of them will have pockets or guys that say “look at this giant I hunted or got”
Adair is another sleeper county I think has some super hunting.
In the end…. If it has habitat, low population of people & good genetics/nutrition (which is more farm& area dependent) …. It all then just comes down to your exact NEIGHBORS - PERIOD. “Im in the “BEST” county but I have horrible neighbors” - u r gonna be in really rough shape. “I’m in the “worst” county but neighbors are amazing” - great hunting. This whole “I need to be in this county” is madness when it’s the main or only thing guys focus on. Is it a “place to start”? Sure. But I personally think at a county level- u cannot beat counties with ample habitat & less people. After that…. It’s NEIGHBORS, period. These deer are not traveling “5 miles”. Most don’t travel half a mile - except during the rut maybe. You get 2 miles away from “a great farm” - almost irrelevant at that distance. In most areas im in …. I’d say around the 160 acre mark is a mature bucks core range other than rut. On my own farm it’s for sure less for MOST bucks….. maybe 40-60 acres. If I have a mature buck at xyz location on my farm & I tried to kill him a half mile from there…. Almost no chance. Except rut or if I only had food at that location late season & he moved in.
For guys on here or anyone open to where they want to hunt or own land …. Lowest population you can find. With that the ground is lower price- far better value. It’s also easier to get permission. Good habitat. After that- anywhere: NEIGHBORS!!!!!!!!! 1 maniac group can hurt an area bad. If all the neighbors are maniacs - no way could I do it. I’d much rather have a farm next to me where shotgun groups pushed it vs 5, 10, 20 dudes roasting it hard from oct 1 through every season. The neighbors that are there all season & smash every 2, 3 or 4 year old with great genetics… IMHO- the worst scenario a guy could dream up besides like poaching or eradicating deer with depredation tags.

 

[Tim Tracy]

People aren't shooting pumpkin slugs with a bead during shotgun seasons or standard blackpowder during late season anymore. It's AR style 350s, 450s, even 35 Whelen and then smokeless sniper muzzleloaders effective to 3-400 yards. From mid October to mid January, it's an onslaught for any buck 140+ regardless of age, unless you have a truly huge farm or substantially picky neighborhood.

And add EHD to this mix, just think of how many bucks have died from this. Western IA is a shell of its former self, I turkey hunted that area this spring and the lack of buck sign from last fall has to be seen to be believed, I honestly had no idea that any part of IA could look that much like the areas I get to hunt in MN.

 

[Daver]

That. Long seasons, increased range and efficiency for weapons, increased technology for surveillance, etc. Then you add in that average parcel sizes have gotten smaller and smaller through the recreational land boom over the last two decades, and here we are.

ALL of those things ^^ are big factors, I totally agree. But the biggest, IMO, is the cell cam surveillance that is so prevalent. I still remember tying fishing line across a deer trail to see if it got knocked off to then know that a deer, most likely, had walked a given trail. Stone age stuff compared to now.

Nowadays...I have heard MANY stories to this effect, but one was a big buck on public land that was known by multiple hunters and one guy reported counting 40+ cams in a relatively small area that the buck was frequenting. Presumably, the cams were heavily concentrated in this area due to Mr. Big being in there. Ain't no buck can dodge all of the hunters in all of the seasons with that type of surveillance.

 

[tall@wide]

Absolutely has taken a beating. I talk to folks in any direction from me… any distance… 2 miles or 20 miles …. The average farms are for sure much harder & the amount of mature bucks way less. I’d guess I’ve had “500” of these discussions & just listening to guys in the last 10 years.
On flip side- Is there still some mature bucks- absolutely- ANY county or area… Could be guys in “jasper, Greene, Marshall, Floyd, Hancock,” WHATEVER…. All of them will have pockets or guys that say “look at this giant I hunted or got”
Adair is another sleeper county I think has some super hunting.
In the end…. If it has habitat, low population of people & good genetics/nutrition (which is more farm& area dependent) …. It all then just comes down to your exact NEIGHBORS - PERIOD. “Im in the “BEST” county but I have horrible neighbors” - u r gonna be in really rough shape. “I’m in the “worst” county but neighbors are amazing” - great hunting. This whole “I need to be in this county” is madness when it’s the main or only thing guys focus on. Is it a “place to start”? Sure. But I personally think at a county level- u cannot beat counties with ample habitat & less people. After that…. It’s NEIGHBORS, period. These deer are not traveling “5 miles”. Most don’t travel half a mile - except during the rut maybe. You get 2 miles away from “a great farm” - almost irrelevant at that distance. In most areas im in …. I’d say around the 160 acre mark is a mature bucks core range other than rut. On my own farm it’s for sure less for MOST bucks….. maybe 40-60 acres. If I have a mature buck at xyz location on my farm & I tried to kill him a half mile from there…. Almost no chance. Except rut or if I only had food at that location late season & he moved in.
For guys on here or anyone open to where they want to hunt or own land …. Lowest population you can find. With that the ground is lower price- far better value. It’s also easier to get permission. Good habitat. After that- anywhere: NEIGHBORS!!!!!!!!! 1 maniac group can hurt an area bad. If all the neighbors are maniacs - no way could I do it. I’d much rather have a farm next to me where shotgun groups pushed it vs 5, 10, 20 dudes roasting it hard from oct 1 through every season. The neighbors that are there all season & smash every 2, 3 or 4 year old with great genetics… IMHO- the worst scenario a guy could dream up besides like poaching or eradicating deer with depredation tags.

I agree neighbors are everything. I have found thru the years that good neighbors are EXTREMELY difficult to find if you are chasing old, giants. 99% of the hunters out there can’t hold off a 3 year old 170. So I figure the best option is to find the lowest hunting pressure areas. I will say I have a surprising number of good bucks on my primary farm in a well known county this year, but I’m betting at least 70% of them will get shot too young by neighbors this fall.

 

[tall@wide]

Is it really that bad in the well known counties in Iowa? I figured not having the gun season during the rut would offset the high grading to a large extent.
Hunters have become too effective if at least a few high potential bucks can't slip through the gauntlet even in Iowa.

Yes high grading in these counties is a major issue.

 

[miniwhitetails]

Only thing I will add is: identifying good neighbors can not be done by pulling up in a truck and asking "hey do you guys practice management". 9 out of 10 times they will go "yeah yeah of course we do, you wont have to worry about us!" I know a lot of people that think "I'm a great neighbor to be next to" when in reality in the back of my head I'm thinking my god i wouldn't want to own anywhere near this guy.

The best neighbors are the ones who don't take hunting seriously. The 80 year old farmer who's kids have all moved away and his grandkids maybe come back and hunt once or twice a year, those are the best. Then when you are hunting the piece next to it you know there is a very good chance the buck you are after is still alive. Honestly being next to you guys (no offense) would make me nervous/scared just because I don't know the buck I'm hunting didn't get shot the night before or early that morning on your land. HOWEVER, the flip side of this is I know the younger 3 year old's will get passed, so every single year WE are hunting mature bucks. That is nice. The thing about management is everybody wins, you lay off the 3 year old's and every single year WE as a neighborhood are hunting mature deer. I can live with that.

 

[Windlooker]

You’re not gonna have good neighbors. Not gonna happen. A neighborhood can be great and one Amish family or one group who doesn’t give a f**k, hunts nearby. Game over Gotta own 600 plus aces, which few can do, to manage and control age structure. If you don’t it’s a crap shoot.

 

[tall@wide]

You’re not gonna have good neighbors. Not gonna happen. A neighborhood can be great and one Amish family or one group who doesn’t give a f**k, hunts nearby. Game over Gotta own 600 plus aces, which few can do, to manage and control age structure. If you don’t it’s a crap shoot.

I’d honestly say you need a couple thousand acres to make a noticeable difference. In the rut the bucks visit one food source and on to the next looking for does. Then if you have late season food, killing bucks is super easy during late muzz. 2000 acres would be a minimum I’d say.

 

[MN Slick]

Well that was a Grim read!!

 

[Hardwood11]

I think if you had 640 acres surrounded by agriculture & poor cover … you could make it work .

I know in Minnesota, I could do it . Just too expensive & I’m 56 now … it would take a long time to set up. I’m too old.

Same could happen in Iowa, ND, SD, etc… just have to be the ideal location and secluded.

 

[Brett Morris]

Another one is Mahaska county south of Poweshiek

Terrible county. Def would avoid

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

I’d honestly say you need a couple thousand acres to make a noticeable difference. In the rut the bucks visit one food source and on to the next looking for does. Then if you have late season food, killing bucks is super easy during late muzz. 2000 acres would be a minimum I’d say.

Totally depends on what else is around farm. For example, Don Higgens farm in Illinois isnt all that big. Houses giants consistently. Surrounded by wide open ag. Other barriers can help a ton too such as a large river, an edge of a town, a highway, etc.

 

[Windlooker]

In the world of statistics those are outliers. They do exist but not common or the norm. Unfortunately most have to deal with multiple neighbors.

 

[Marty Edwards]

At this point all I can be is an echo-chamber to all those who’ve stressed the importance of neighbors. I’ve owned farms here n there. I’ve had the good, the bad and the ugly when it comes to neighbors over the years. Currently, I own a piece that has THE BEST neighbor you could possibly imagine on one side. A pretty darn decent neighbor on one side and two other sides that are somewhere between “somewhat disappointing and bad”. I do everything in my power to make my property the best in the neighborhood. All the management things, the food, water, cover, diversity, tsi, burns, etc. etc. We limit interior intrusion, we “pick at the edges” in early season, we share what we’re passing and why with most neighbors, we share what we kill, we pass and pass and pass, and yes, what we are passing often gets picked off by a neighbor, or a neighbor’s kid, or a neighbors buddy’s kid, and on and on.

My point: we try really hard to focus on the things we have ultimate, immediate control of. The things that happen outside of our control, whether it be neighbors or EHD don’t suck any less, but as I’m maturing, I’m learning to lose less sleep over things I have zero control of. LEARNING, I have not mastered it yet! Ha!

Now, on the other hand, we will continue to share our management practices in HOPE that we can influence our neighbors in a positive direction over time.

Good Lord willing, I’ll be able to add more acres to what we have over time, but for now, our plan is to control what we can & pray for the ability to let all the other stuff flutter off in the breeze and get in a tree whenever we can.

 

[Muskrat24]

I think if you had 640 acres surrounded by agriculture & poor cover … you could make it work .

I know in Minnesota, I could do it . Just too expensive & I’m 56 now … it would take a long time to set up. I’m too old.

Same could happen in Iowa, ND, SD, etc… just have to be the ideal location and secluded.

Doesn’t take only 160-200 acres if SURROUNDED by big ag, just ask Don Higgins. But finding THAT piece of ground is few and FAR between. A lot of luck and passing those up and comers yourself is a big part also. I know of several “big buck hunters” that blame the neighbors and talk themselves into shooting a deer they say they will pass. If you tag him this year there is 100% chance he doesn’t make it to a year older. If you pass there is a small chance he makes it and IF/when he does you have what you were after. I’d say that is what most of us will experience more than locking down enough ground to “control” them.

 

[Sligh1]

Doesn’t take only 160-200 acres if SURROUNDED by big ag, just ask Don Higgins. But finding THAT piece of ground is few and FAR between. A lot of luck and passing those up and comers yourself is a big part also. I know of several “big buck hunters” that blame the neighbors and talk themselves into shooting a deer they say they will pass. If you tag him this year there is 100% chance he doesn’t make it to a year older. If you pass there is a small chance he makes it and IF/when he does you have what you were after. I’d say that is what most of us will experience more than locking down enough ground to “control” them.

This is for sure true. Up by Des Moines I know of some ag areas outside of the suburbs where there’s a whole section with “80 acres of timber in center” & that’s it. IF u owned that & didn’t blow it out & u did hunt it right- could have mature buck(s) every year. Some cases they do. The cases they don’t… dudes blow it to bits or don’t manage it right. But absolutely can be done. Clearly u need to hunt carefully & can’t start smoking your up & comers. U aren’t gonna have 6 mature bucks a year…. But u might have a couple.
I had an 80 that had 20 acres timber in center. The timber was an island in that 80 & that 80 was an island in that area with no other timber around. I almost never went into it. Hunted edges. Which…not fun for some people. But only way to keep it good. Had a mature buck about every year. If a 3, 4 or 5 year old lived there & got passed, he almost always was there the next year. Small isolated chunks can be good, they just need to be hunted & managed so carefully. I like those island scenarios in the regard that so many “bad neighbor” issues evaporate. Whole group of other challenges but dang that element is nice!!!
One I owned & sold that still to this day has a few mature bucks every year. 1-3 that “live there”. Ag all over not a huge amount of timber. IF IF IF a guy can be disciplined to not shoot the young up and comers & not pound it, be great every year. & don’t need to own a big farm.

 

[MN Slick]

What I'd like to know is how Don's farm is able to hold and keep so many older age class bucks on such small acreage. He talks about having 3-4 high potential four year olds along with his older target and management bucks,. I would think the four years olds would seek out their own turf but they seem to wait their turn on Don's. Is it as simple as having enough does to go around along all they food they need? Something ingraned in the social structure? Most of his bucks have a much smaller home range than the morons in North MO.