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What's your opinion on this.

moosehunter

moosehunter

PMA Member
The topic of the special "late season doe only" season was brought up at the DNR rules meeteing Tuesday. It is my opinion, which was shared by others, that too many shed bucks are shot during this season. Enough that I wonder if there would be a better option as far as when, for a "doe only" season. Mr. Willie Suchy later on told us that thier studies revealed about a 5% shed buck kill rate during that season. Which he thought was an acceptable level. My 1st impression was that number was way to low. Way too low. Based on the people I talk to, I estimate it's more like 20 or 30%. But that would include button bucks. I realize that's anecdotal evidence but it's also what I believe is more accurate than 5%. What are your guys thoughts on this.
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What little I heard about it there were a lot of shed bucks shot. And thats just my little corner of the state. I would guess the 5% is way low also.
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Dealing with medications, treatments, information and such covered by anectdotal evidence, letters to the editor, case reports, small studies, and large studies- some of these with dubious design or conclusions I will still take the study every time. Don't know how Willie has collected the data or the design of the study- they will have a margin of error as well but I would bet he isn't far off.
 
Pharmer. I believe he said it was a survey which I dought qualifies as a study. Other than being more organized, probably not much better than my own little study.
 
"Mr. Willie Suchy later on told us that thier studies revealed about a 5% shed buck kill rate during that season"

OK, I didn't hear it- just what you wrote. No offense intended.
 
One shed buck shot was one too many for me. I let a nice ten point walk all year, hoping he would survive for 2006. I let some friends hunt late antlerless only and one of them shot a shed buck. I still wonder if it was that 10 point.
If he would have listened to my instructions NOT to shoot deer that were alone, he would not have shot this buck. Then he tells me that it had a huge body (another clue to it being a buck). It looks like he'll be finding somewhere else to hunt next year.

Other than that, I don't have an opinion
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I am not real confident in some of the surveys that the DNR conducts. This year alone I recieved three of the same yellow postcard style survey questioniars in the mail. I sent one back and discarded the others.
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I would guess 5-8%, not counting nubbys. With nubbys it's probably closer to 15-20%. Not sure how many deer are killed during the late season. Anyone have that info?

jrbronc, some people just never get it know matter how many times you explain it.
 
I think I would tend to go with the pros in this case. Based on my own experience we have shot one shed buck out of 8 deer over the last 3 years. Also I beleive that only a very small portion of the bucks have shed by this time in January. This year everyone reported deer with antlers clear into March. I also have wondered what makes some of these deer shed that early. Could it be poor genitics or low testosterone levels, and if so do we want these bucks arround? The one shed buck we killed had a infected wound behind one front leg but we couldn't determine that it was from being shot with a bullet or arrow, maybe from a fight earlier in the season. I do think that there must be something wrong for them to shed that early. I don't know how changing the season arround would really change the buck fatality rate. If you have it earlier you will still loose the same button bucks, and I wonder how many bucks would fall to the temption hunters we hear about, and be taged with a doe tag or a bow tag. While the 5% or even 10% figure may seem high I am sure that it is a drop in the bucket compared to those lost to poachers and car accidents. There are somethings that can help with the accidents, but there are lots of things that each of us can do about poaching especially if we can group together. Poaching is something that will have far longer lasting effects than moving the doe season arround. The special season will eventually go away but the poachers will still be in business unless we do something to stop them. Sorry to go off on another tangent but I agree with the biologist that 5% is an acceptable level for the good the late season does and our intrest and energy could better be used else where.
 
How many does were shot during this season? My thinking is that a whole bunch more does get shot than bucks. Given the pressure that is being put on the DNR and legislature to shoot does, I think that 'losing' a few bucks is a small price to pay for the resulting doe reduction. Plus, even if a buck got shot, it wasn't like he was wasted. He became meat on someone's table. I'm aware of the argument that he would never get a chance to carry a bigger rack, but we need to be honest - most of these shed bucks that get shot aren't on the properties that you and I hunt.

We really need to be careful about worrying too much about every buck in the state. Iowa produces tons and tons of big bucks, and yes, a few of them get shot without their antlers. Also, some get poached, hit by cars, and killed by wildlife, sickness or disease. And many more are killed during season and not found. Some are wounded and die later.

I agree that we need to let smaller bucks grow up if we want to see bigger bucks. We also need to manage the herd numbers effectively. The tragedy isn't that a few bucks are shot by accident. The tragedy would be seeing our hunting opportunities decreased or taken away. I appreciate that so many on this site and elsewhere are working hard to see that tragedy avoided.
 
You guys make some good valid points. I stayed after the conference and had a pretty good chat with local DNR guys about many of the points you just raised, with much of the conversation along the lines of poaching. We all agreed, as I with you Bowman, that the poaching is a much more serious issue than how many shed bucks are shot during that late season. My only goal here with this post was to get some different ideas on doe harvest's and reduce the shed buck kills.....
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I'm still trying to figure out what the real objective of this special late season is. I will speculate that the real reason is "revenue" based, and that population control is just an added front. I truely believe that if the IDNR would work on the cost of doe tags during the regular seasons (Bow and Shotgun), and implement the one dollar fee for the HUSH lockers, then regular season hunters would be willing to purchase more doe tags thereby increasing revenue for the state and also reducing the overall population at the same time. To me, the special late season is nothing more than a money-maker and an added stress to an already stressed herd. It would be interesting to see some numbers tallied for the late season.
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I think one shed buck is too many shot in "doe" season. It doesn't make sense to have it that late. Stresses the herd and leads to shed buck harvests. I think they should just integrate extra tags into the existing seasons but maybe the goal is to stress the herd, thereby raising the mortality rate, who knows?
 
I have witnessed shed bucks shot in late muzzleloader season also, should we start bow season in Sept? have early muzzle around Oct 1? shotgun during the rut?, and wrap up the doe hunt on the same day of the current last day of second shotgun season? This way there is no chance of a shed buck being shot? Sounds crazy to me too. I Like the current system, I guess we either have to live with it, without it, or move it earlier. Either way people are gonna be for it or against it. I will always be for it, I love shooting does. I would be willing to bet if it was proven that every buck didn't start dropping horns till Mid February, then our doe season would last till February 1st. Point being, I think the DNR has it set up to have the least amount of impact on bucks. By the way Doug, When the season is over, and you tromp the deer woods everyday looking for sheds, don't you stress the deer just as much as a hunter?
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they still run scared to death and get bumped around each day.
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One of my ideas was to move the "Doe only" season to just before the shotgun season. The two things I like about that are is; One, you eliminate the shed buck problem. Secondly, I think that would educate some bucks enough to survive the oncoming shotgun season to live another year. That should translate to more big bucks.

But I'm sure that would tick off alot of shotgunners.........
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I don't think so Mike, if I see a bunch still carrying I back out and a lot of times they don't even run. Besides, I'm not shooting at them. They never run like they do in shotgun season. A lot of the places I shed hunt aren't hunted and the deer don't even spook much when they know you are there. I have watched them walk right back into their winter feeding/bedding areas as I walk out. This doesn't happen when you shoot at them on their way out. Might be helped out by the fact that sometimes I am busy filling I feeder I put up for them. I don't think the two are comparable. I think you're right on target moosehunter. What difference would it make to have it before shotgun season? Very few shotgun hunters really hunt anyway. It's just a time to cull the herd. 20 guys chasing all the deer in the woods to another 10 guys on the other end isn't really hunting anyway, just harvesting. Why would it matter?
 
Get your facts straight guys, its not a "doe" season. The season is "antlerless". Until the Tag says "doe only" shed bucks are at risk. There may never be the perfect scenario. I think we have it pretty good here in Iowa, maybe the best deer seasons in the nation. Lets fight for keeping guns out of the rut, limited non resident tags and QDM. Also, I believe that the numbers and percentages of shed bucks reportedly being killed may be skewed. When I hear of one being killed, it sticks in my mind. I may even tell a friend or two, "hey so-and-so accidently shot a shed buck." Yes, these instances add up, but how ofton do you BS with other deer hunters and recall every single doe shot during the season. The number 5% may sound low but it has to be seen in relation to the total harvest. If 500 antlerless deer are shot in a county, 5% would be 25 shed bucks killed. I would be surprized if it is even that high. Lets remember, the vast majority of bucks have not even shed at this time. It is not perfect, but it may not be horrible.
 
I tend to disagree with you guys that say that moving this season up would not hurt anything. Think about what you are asking, a gun season right at the latter stage of the rut. I can see this really impacting the bow hunters because it would totally disrupt the rut having a lot more hunters in the woods. Deer would change their patterns and the actual harvest numbers could go down. I also think that it would decrease the numbers for the 1st gun season because the deer have already been pressured. I also believe that for every single shed buck killed now there would be 3 or more antlered bucks killed because so many hunters couldn't resist that kind of temptation. I might be way off on this but I think that if a big buck walks by with his neck all swollen and looking for the does a person is watching, chances are that that is a dead buck that won't ever be taged properly. I really feel that moving the season to the end of November would lower the doe harvest and increase the bucks killed during the antlerless season. I also think that comments that people who drive deer aren't really hunting are not warrented. Every one has the right to their own opinion and if you choose not to hunt this way then don't but don't belittle others because they choose a different legal way. You should consider what the harvest numbers would be and what kinds of problems we would experience with the resulting overpopulation. Even with the drives and party hunting we are not harvesting enough deer and that is why we even have a special season in the first place. One last point, I don't think this season is just about revenue. I think it helps spread out the hunting pressure some and lets us still hunt deer long after other states are done. How many of you are ready to quit hunting as soon as possible. Not me!
 
With the late seasons I think it is hard to avoid having the odd shed buck killed, especially in a state with so many hunters in the woods. It is crummy when it happens but all in all I think you guys have it pretty good.

Try this regulation on for size for our 2005 season.
Bow season- Sept 1-Dec. 6
Muzzleloader Oct. 1-Dec.6
Rifle Nov 3- Dec 6.

Bow and muzzleloader can cross over in October and both can be used during rifle but in rifle season you must wear full orange or white despite what weapon you are using. Here is where it gets STUPID and PISSES me off. If you buy a $33 moose tag you can rifle hunt for whitetails during the last 2 weeks of Oct. as long as you posses a moose tag. How does that make it fair to bow and muzzle guys. Anybody out there think like me and believe that is a $$$$ grab for the DNR. "more people will buy moose tags if they can shoot a whitetail out the truck window". Our DNR and regulations suck so bad.
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Darn good discussion going on here. I must say thanks to each of you for sharing your views in a 'civil' manner. Makes for a lot better reading and thinking when the flames are kept out of the discussion. I still like my opinion the best (I'm my own best friend !), but I really do appreciate your views and opinions. Good job.
 
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