WHY IS IOWA GREAT?

[Sligh1]

Dag nab this post has got away from me a bit. Fantastic stuff!!!!!!!! Well said!!!

a few things that catch my attention across the Midwest.... Illinois, Southern half of MN, MI &WI, Indiana, northern MO, etc - these are all PRIME habitat mixed with premium farming/nutrition and exceptional genetic pockets. Iowa really isn’t rare on that level. It is vs some areas of the country but I’d dare to say, with 6% timber & 75% of the state “not really having much deer hunting”.... I’m gonna GUESS iowa comprises MAYBE 5% of the “great Midwest habitat, great genetic & high nutrition Combo for ideal deer habitat & potential”. All these states listed above in those zones for example have endless fertility - premium farm ground mixed with vast forest, timber, crp, brush & habitat. Everything a deer could dream of having!!!

So what changed from the MN border or the Mississippi River to IL /WI or the driving into areas that look just like iowa in MI & IN, etc ? Or hopping the border of famed southern iowa into Northern MO? There’s a CLEAR LINE OF CHANGE!!! Looks the exact same on both sides. What changed? The quality & results ARE night & day different. U guys nailed it..... timing of guns & rut. Guns in november: goodbye deer potential on average. Then it’s a laundry list of one bad idea followed by another. Most states u can find a combo of these ideas that culminate to ruin the potential.... high population states where 2 buck rule exists (vs OH for example that’s 1 buck!!!). Crossbows during archery. Unlimited NR tags. Rifles instead of shotguns. A DNR that only chases $. A culture of “give hunters more seasons, more weapons, make it easier for everyone, etc”........

iowa took the approach - I strongly believe the RIGHT approach that hunters across the country had the advantages & the deer, if u will, was thought of as the “under dog”..... & I believe they are the under dog. A deer surviving being chased 4 months with 6-7 seasons & weapons- it’s a pretty cool thing seeing them make it. *My home state of MI has a WAR every year- an army with marching orders to destroy, kill & wipe out every deer with an antler!!!.... every battle & war ever waged- the hunting army wins this war unanimously EVERY YEAR!!!!
Deer anywhere making it to maturity- u have to have respect for that animal - even in iowa. Other states have thrown everything at the “under dog” they can to make sure they can’t succeed or get to maturity. They have been exceptionally successful at it too!!! Chances those bucks make it to maturity is staggering low. Iowa is the last great place that still looks at the whitetail as the under dog and roots for rules that make it a bit harder for the hunter. & the under dog has a chance here!!! KS & a few others as well maybe. A few states that intentionally handicap themselves for the betterment of the resource as a whole. Well- we used to be that way big time... dwindling a bit in last “10 years” little by little catering to the “I want it easier for ME ME ME!!” Generation. The entitled generation if you will - sorry to offend but that’s what we have. “Make it easier for me!!! I want more guarantees!!!! ME ME ME”. While there’s still a group that says “give me an OPPORTUNITY but let’s stack some odds in the deer’s favor so we actually give a chance of having a balanced age structure & deer that can reach maturity on occasion”. The trend - give hunters the edge. I hope that reverses course personally. In other states that ship sailed decades ago.
Here, now, 4 months, 2 buck limit, 6% timber, 6-7 seasons & 6-8 types of weapons & Calls for MORE MORE MORE is NOT the right answer!!!! That’s the line we have to fight and the special interests we need to fight.

Finally, to those of u that think “iowa is OK”. “It’s so so”. “It used to be better”. “There’s not a lot of mature bucks” - whatever you think..... it’s LIGHT YEARS ahead of the neighbors!!!! So, if u think it’s “mediocre” here.... by those standards - I assure you- go hunt MI or WI & by those standards you would say “these states are void of life!!!!! It’s a desert waste land of quality, balance & opportunity”!!!!! I promise you- be thankful for what u have & what iowa has now. I assure you- it’s much better than anywhere else. Fight to keep what you have. There really is NO FIGHT to make iowa better - doesn’t exist (on a legislative front or from special interests). There is a lot of fights to degrade it. To accommodate every special interest and pray on human nature of “make it easier” or entitlement or $!!! This fight is going one way and we cannot let our guard down and we have to continue to educate this next generation & even the current hunters who need to appreciate that IOWA IS GREAT!!

 

[deep woods goat hunter]

Dag nab this post has got away from me a bit. Fantastic stuff!!!!!!!! Well said!!!

a few things that catch my attention across the Midwest.... Illinois, Southern half of MN, MI &WI, Indiana, northern MO, etc - these are all PRIME habitat mixed with premium farming/nutrition and exceptional genetic pockets. Iowa really isn’t rare on that level. It is vs some areas of the country but I’d dare to say, with 6% timber & 75% of the state “not really having much deer hunting”.... I’m gonna GUESS iowa comprises MAYBE 5% of the “great Midwest habitat, great genetic & high nutrition Combo for ideal deer habitat & potential”. All these states listed above in those zones for example have endless fertility - premium farm ground mixed with vast forest, timber, crp, brush & habitat. Everything a deer could dream of having!!!

So what changed from the MN border or the Mississippi River to IL /WI or the driving into areas that look just like iowa in MI & IN, etc ? Or hopping the border of famed southern iowa into Northern MO? There’s a CLEAR LINE OF CHANGE!!! Looks the exact same on both sides. What changed? The quality & results ARE night & day different. U guys nailed it..... timing of guns & rut. Guns in november: goodbye deer potential on average. Then it’s a laundry list of one bad idea followed by another. Most states u can find a combo of these ideas that culminate to ruin the potential.... high population states where 2 buck rule exists (vs OH for example that’s 1 buck!!!). Crossbows during archery. Unlimited NR tags. Rifles instead of shotguns. A DNR that only chases $. A culture of “give hunters more seasons, more weapons, make it easier for everyone, etc”........

iowa took the approach - I strongly believe the RIGHT approach that hunters across the country had the advantages & the deer, if u will, was thought of as the “under dog”..... & I believe they are the under dog. A deer surviving being chased 4 months with 6-7 seasons & weapons- it’s a pretty cool thing seeing them make it. *My home state of MI has a WAR every year- an army with marching orders to destroy, kill & wipe out every deer with an antler!!!.... every battle & war ever waged- the hunting army wins this war unanimously EVERY YEAR!!!!
Deer anywhere making it to maturity- u have to have respect for that animal - even in iowa. Other states have thrown everything at the “under dog” they can to make sure they can’t succeed or get to maturity. They have been exceptionally successful at it too!!! Chances those bucks make it to maturity is staggering low. Iowa is the last great place that still looks at the whitetail as the under dog and roots for rules that make it a bit harder for the hunter. & the under dog has a chance here!!! KS & a few others as well maybe. A few states that intentionally handicap themselves for the betterment of the resource as a whole. Well- we used to be that way big time... dwindling a bit in last “10 years” little by little catering to the “I want it easier for ME ME ME!!” Generation. The entitled generation if you will - sorry to offend but that’s what we have. “Make it easier for me!!! I want more guarantees!!!! ME ME ME”. While there’s still a group that says “give me an OPPORTUNITY but let’s stack some odds in the deer’s favor so we actually give a chance of having a balanced age structure & deer that can reach maturity on occasion”. The trend - give hunters the edge. I hope that reverses course personally. In other states that ship sailed decades ago.
Here, now, 4 months, 2 buck limit, 6% timber, 6-7 seasons & 6-8 types of weapons & Calls for MORE MORE MORE is NOT the right answer!!!! That’s the line we have to fight and the special interests we need to fight.

Finally, to those of u that think “iowa is OK”. “It’s so so”. “It used to be better”. “There’s not a lot of mature bucks” - whatever you think..... it’s LIGHT YEARS ahead of the neighbors!!!! So, if u think it’s “mediocre” here.... by those standards - I assure you- go hunt MI or WI & by those standards you would say “these states are void of life!!!!! It’s a desert waste land of quality, balance & opportunity”!!!!! I promise you- be thankful for what u have & what iowa has now. I assure you- it’s much better than anywhere else. Fight to keep what you have. There really is NO FIGHT to make iowa better - doesn’t exist (on a legislative front or from special interests). There is a lot of fights to degrade it. To accommodate every special interest and pray on human nature of “make it easier” or entitlement or $!!! This fight is going one way and we cannot let our guard down and we have to continue to educate this next generation & even the current hunters who need to appreciate that IOWA IS GREAT!!

well said skip.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hawk32]

Garg10

Great post and nothing but respects to you. Can you call that out of state millionaire Jensen fellow who hired multiple of his own lobbyist to fulfill his own personal agenda and talk some sense into him.

 

[Obsessed]

Dag nab this post has got away from me a bit. Fantastic stuff!!!!!!!! Well said!!!

a few things that catch my attention across the Midwest.... Illinois, Southern half of MN, MI &WI, Indiana, northern MO, etc - these are all PRIME habitat mixed with premium farming/nutrition and exceptional genetic pockets. Iowa really isn’t rare on that level. It is vs some areas of the country but I’d dare to say, with 6% timber & 75% of the state “not really having much deer hunting”.... I’m gonna GUESS iowa comprises MAYBE 5% of the “great Midwest habitat, great genetic & high nutrition Combo for ideal deer habitat & potential”. All these states listed above in those zones for example have endless fertility - premium farm ground mixed with vast forest, timber, crp, brush & habitat. Everything a deer could dream of having!!!

So what changed from the MN border or the Mississippi River to IL /WI or the driving into areas that look just like iowa in MI & IN, etc ? Or hopping the border of famed southern iowa into Northern MO? There’s a CLEAR LINE OF CHANGE!!! Looks the exact same on both sides. What changed? The quality & results ARE night & day different. U guys nailed it..... timing of guns & rut. Guns in november: goodbye deer potential on average. Then it’s a laundry list of one bad idea followed by another. Most states u can find a combo of these ideas that culminate to ruin the potential.... high population states where 2 buck rule exists (vs OH for example that’s 1 buck!!!). Crossbows during archery. Unlimited NR tags. Rifles instead of shotguns. A DNR that only chases $. A culture of “give hunters more seasons, more weapons, make it easier for everyone, etc”........

iowa took the approach - I strongly believe the RIGHT approach that hunters across the country had the advantages & the deer, if u will, was thought of as the “under dog”..... & I believe they are the under dog. A deer surviving being chased 4 months with 6-7 seasons & weapons- it’s a pretty cool thing seeing them make it. *My home state of MI has a WAR every year- an army with marching orders to destroy, kill & wipe out every deer with an antler!!!.... every battle & war ever waged- the hunting army wins this war unanimously EVERY YEAR!!!!
Deer anywhere making it to maturity- u have to have respect for that animal - even in iowa. Other states have thrown everything at the “under dog” they can to make sure they can’t succeed or get to maturity. They have been exceptionally successful at it too!!! Chances those bucks make it to maturity is staggering low. Iowa is the last great place that still looks at the whitetail as the under dog and roots for rules that make it a bit harder for the hunter. & the under dog has a chance here!!! KS & a few others as well maybe. A few states that intentionally handicap themselves for the betterment of the resource as a whole. Well- we used to be that way big time... dwindling a bit in last “10 years” little by little catering to the “I want it easier for ME ME ME!!” Generation. The entitled generation if you will - sorry to offend but that’s what we have. “Make it easier for me!!! I want more guarantees!!!! ME ME ME”. While there’s still a group that says “give me an OPPORTUNITY but let’s stack some odds in the deer’s favor so we actually give a chance of having a balanced age structure & deer that can reach maturity on occasion”. The trend - give hunters the edge. I hope that reverses course personally. In other states that ship sailed decades ago.
Here, now, 4 months, 2 buck limit, 6% timber, 6-7 seasons & 6-8 types of weapons & Calls for MORE MORE MORE is NOT the right answer!!!! That’s the line we have to fight and the special interests we need to fight.

Finally, to those of u that think “iowa is OK”. “It’s so so”. “It used to be better”. “There’s not a lot of mature bucks” - whatever you think..... it’s LIGHT YEARS ahead of the neighbors!!!! So, if u think it’s “mediocre” here.... by those standards - I assure you- go hunt MI or WI & by those standards you would say “these states are void of life!!!!! It’s a desert waste land of quality, balance & opportunity”!!!!! I promise you- be thankful for what u have & what iowa has now. I assure you- it’s much better than anywhere else. Fight to keep what you have. There really is NO FIGHT to make iowa better - doesn’t exist (on a legislative front or from special interests). There is a lot of fights to degrade it. To accommodate every special interest and pray on human nature of “make it easier” or entitlement or $!!! This fight is going one way and we cannot let our guard down and we have to continue to educate this next generation & even the current hunters who need to appreciate that IOWA IS GREAT!!

Well said Skip.

 

[Muskrat24]

There it is! Gun season or not, if you don't have the right environment/habitat/terrain/genetics it would be extremely difficult to replicate what Iowa has.

As skip mentioned there are several states that can put enough of the pieces together to compete with Iowa and likely beat it in number (Ie. MO) if the rifle season was moved back. Two things to add about MO for example is that there has been damage done to the genetics in MO with its gun season like it is. People would much rather shoot a nice 10 point as a dink 8 point and the better genetic deer are shot out before they get the chance to breed so even changing the rifle date will take some time to correct the reverse natural selection that has occurred to genetics. There are still good genetics but not as many IMO as Iowa.
The second thing that most of us have to remember is that we are putting emphasis on TROPHY while maybe the majority of the MO/MI/WI rifle hunters prefer opportunity. I am of the trophy mindset but again using MO for example I would suspect that average Joe rifle hunter doesn’t mind the current approach cuz he/she can go out and whack a rut crazed 140 at 250 yards hunting a couple weekends a year. I’m pretty sure that average Joe rifle hunter would rather not sit in freezing cold temps later in the season hunting feed to bed travel. Just seeing the other side and probably the reason MO legislation doesn’t change the date ALONG WITH $!!!

 

[Lucky 13]

As skip mentioned there are several states that can put enough of the pieces together to compete with Iowa and likely beat it in number (Ie. MO) if the rifle season was moved back. Two things to add about MO for example is that there has been damage done to the genetics in MO with its gun season like it is. People would much rather shoot a nice 10 point as a dink 8 point and the better genetic deer are shot out before they get the chance to breed so even changing the rifle date will take some time to correct the reverse natural selection that has occurred to genetics. There are still good genetics but not as many IMO as Iowa.
The second thing that most of us have to remember is that we are putting emphasis on TROPHY while maybe the majority of the MO/MI/WI rifle hunters prefer opportunity. I am of the trophy mindset but again using MO for example I would suspect that average Joe rifle hunter doesn’t mind the current approach cuz he/she can go out and whack a rut crazed 140 at 250 yards hunting a couple weekends a year. I’m pretty sure that average Joe rifle hunter would rather not sit in freezing cold temps later in the season hunting feed to bed travel. Just seeing the other side and probably the reason MO legislation doesn’t change the date ALONG WITH $!!!

I agree with much of what you say but would also add-most people over simplify this debate. The type of weapon used and how the DNR manages that weapon is definitely a factor but without a base of environment/climate/terrain/genetics you will not replicate Iowa. The same reason why antelope, elk, mullies and bear don't flourish in Iowa is why Whitetail deer don't flourish in other states....Species Specific Habitat.

And there are some similarities between states in the Midwest but nothing compares to the whitetail habitat of Iowa on a STATEWIDE basis

For example
1. Iowa has the highest % of crp of any midwestern state from what I can see on the NRCS data
2. Dryland crop yields for bean and corn are significantly higher than most surrounding states- and the highest yield are directly adjacent to Iowa
3. Iowa has the highest % of good/prime farmland than any surrounding state. Twice as much as the states of SD, KS. NE. MN, MO, WI, MI on a statewide basis as a % of overall state size
4. Adequate precipitation is also a significant factor
5. Typically mild winters are also a big factor supporting Iowa Deer- I believe winter death rates for whitetail in MI, MN, and WI are over 50% for yearling deer in many areas of those states.
6. Predation- Bears, wolves and Mt Lions

I AM NOT saying these are the only reason why IA whitetails are great but it does create the base of habitat that must be met. You can also add in hunter population densities of these states. Compare # of hunting licenses sold/acre vs MI, MO, MN, WI etc. Iowa is not even close to the hunting pressure of those states. And making sure the DNR doesn't sell too many R and NR tags will keep it that way!

In a recent conversation with the Big Game Manager of the Nebraska, he pointed out that examination of harvested deer in the NE rifle season in 2019 (which is 9 days in the RUT) 39% of those harvested deer were 3.5+ years old. I believe the G&P personnel aged 16,000+ harvested deer for this study so it should be very accurate. And the age trend is actually increasing. This corresponds very closely to what the numbers are in random samples for Iowa and better than many other states. But how can this happen with NE having a 9 day rifle season in the RUT? And a month long MZ season? and a 120 day long bow season? and a 2nd rifle season in January? and very little disease deaths in the last 6 years? The answer is: pretty darn good management by the DNR.

The X Factor for deer in IA is that the average deer hunter in Iowa has a much better understanding on QDM than most other states I hunt. A much higher percentage of IA deer hunters I speak with understand the importance of genetics, nutrition, selective harvesting, social stress, habitat, food plots, sex ratios, disease management, aging on the hoof, etc. Most other states are way behind IA in deer education. But there is still plenty of room for improvement.

Lastly, IMO poor legislation can probably screw up a deer herd faster than about anything else and that is at least something the average hunter can control by voting!

 

[Hardwood11]

As skip mentioned there are several states that can put enough of the pieces together to compete with Iowa and likely beat it in number (Ie. MO) if the rifle season was moved back. Two things to add about MO for example is that there has been damage done to the genetics in MO with its gun season like it is. People would much rather shoot a nice 10 point as a dink 8 point and the better genetic deer are shot out before they get the chance to breed so even changing the rifle date will take some time to correct the reverse natural selection that has occurred to genetics. There are still good genetics but not as many IMO as Iowa.
The second thing that most of us have to remember is that we are putting emphasis on TROPHY while maybe the majority of the MO/MI/WI rifle hunters prefer opportunity. I am of the trophy mindset but again using MO for example I would suspect that average Joe rifle hunter doesn’t mind the current approach cuz he/she can go out and whack a rut crazed 140 at 250 yards hunting a couple weekends a year. I’m pretty sure that average Joe rifle hunter would rather not sit in freezing cold temps later in the season hunting feed to bed travel. Just seeing the other side and probably the reason MO legislation doesn’t change the date ALONG WITH $!!!

I believe there is a lot to this. After hunting in Iowa and seeing dandies survive to the next season, you wonder how that influences genetics.

The old saying “I hope he passes down his genes”

In MN for example the early November gun season might leave a farm with a few scrubber bucks surviving. They breed the does, which in some areas are plentiful. Passing on poor genetics. I might not be exactly right on the money here, but I believe it has to be a FACTOR!

Each state DNR/Big Game Management should factor this in, but they don’t.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Saw this the other day. A reminder of how quality can turn to shit with poor management.

 

[Sligh1]

Saw this the other day. A reminder of how quality can turn to shit with poor management.

View attachment 120311

Wow!!!! I lived about an hour south of Pellston for 2 years. There’s an sports shop that had a book of gazillion bucks from the last 20-30 years. Cataloged. As a young passionate deer-freak, I loved going through all of it- tons of times. Clearly the amount of mature bucks was a small % but for ease of conversation... I’m gonna say there was “100-150 mature bucks” in that book from the area. Thousands not mature. Of the “mature bucks”.... if I recall... I’m guessing here... I don’t think one buck passed about 160, maybe 170”. Nothing remotely close to 200”. (***ok, except for the “world record Rompola buck” - biggest crock of crap!!!). Long story.
Could these results be Partially from nutrition? Sure. But also lot of ag & good food there. Could it also be 100 years of pile driving the young studs with good gens?? I personally think so. Cant prove it but I think so.
we all know we aren’t going to change genetic pool on our farm or even in our county with a 2-5 year timeframe.... BUT.... what about a 20-40 year culling of the best bucks statewide? I personally agree with hardwood- eventually it does change the herd genetics.
Go look at a forest that’s been “high graded” for 4-5 cuts.... nothing left but garbage trees. 1 time- it still can be ok & bounce back. But repeated taking of the best - results in the worst quality, genetics & species left behind. Deer, IMO, can have very similar results in analogy. States that kill the best genetic bucks before peak breeding & before they can spend 3-4 years doing the breeding (cause they are dead before or during rut at young age) - will eventually have a lower quality genetic herd on average. IMO.

can all states still grow giants with age and nutrition if they could escape to maturity, sure. But, IMO, I’d “bet my $” if we did a study & said “let’s look at 1,000 bucks shot N of MO Line 20 miles in iowa & get average score for 5 year olds” & “1,000 bucks 20 miles south of IA line into MO, 5 year olds, average score”.... or same with IA vs MN or WI..... I’d bet my life on it... iowa would have higher averages. Due to decades of what genetics got passed down from the regulations & amount of good bucks allowed to reach maturity vs neighbor states killing young & early.

I will admit- I still do see some farms in iowa where there’s 125” 8 point 5 year olds “no one will shoot. Wont put tag on it”. It’s not the norm as lot of folks will shoot em but it does happen. & I know that same thing happens in other states too - so a moot point. Another reason & discussion but u have to shoot those old bucks that might not score great. I’m on my way out the door right now too target this guy!!!!!!.......

 

[letemgrow]

As skip mentioned there are several states that can put enough of the pieces together to compete with Iowa and likely beat it in number (Ie. MO) if the rifle season was moved back. Two things to add about MO for example is that there has been damage done to the genetics in MO with its gun season like it is. People would much rather shoot a nice 10 point as a dink 8 point and the better genetic deer are shot out before they get the chance to breed so even changing the rifle date will take some time to correct the reverse natural selection that has occurred to genetics. There are still good genetics but not as many IMO as Iowa.
The second thing that most of us have to remember is that we are putting emphasis on TROPHY while maybe the majority of the MO/MI/WI rifle hunters prefer opportunity. I am of the trophy mindset but again using MO for example I would suspect that average Joe rifle hunter doesn’t mind the current approach cuz he/she can go out and whack a rut crazed 140 at 250 yards hunting a couple weekends a year. I’m pretty sure that average Joe rifle hunter would rather not sit in freezing cold temps later in the season hunting feed to bed travel. Just seeing the other side and probably the reason MO legislation doesn’t change the date ALONG WITH $!!!

Agreed.

I’ve had several well above average young deer over the years, and most of those don’t make it. A 120-130” 2 year old is WAY too visible on multiple farms and meets the inch standard for most hunters.

This one may just get to blossom next year. The only reason he will is because the right neighbors passed him during rifle and alternative season.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[letemgrow]

The kicker is people can still manage on their own no matter the regs if they really want to. More neighbors are getting on board every year in my area of MO.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hardwood11]

It is a very simple. Check your trail cams in November and notice the daytime activity of bucks. Check cams in December and note the difference. Then think of what weapon is using during that time. That is 80% of it! It would be 2 years and Iowa would be average if the Iowa gun season was November 7-20 or whatever dates you pick in early November. It would all lead to Iowa being average at best.