Why?

[JNRBRONC]

Reading how the recent "hunting video' thread got side tracked into a anti-lease/anti-non-resident thread (IMO) and from other similar posts I've read over the course of the last year or two, I need to ask a few questions.
Times are tough for farmers these days. Many are looking to pick up jobs in town. This can be motivated by health care benefits or just the desire to have a steady income. For these people, they often work seven days a week. The other option is to expand your farming operation and surely make it a 24/7 operation.
I see posts on this board with subject lines of: "This weekend's shoot"
or "Gun/Archery show @" . Some appear to have a Monday-Friday job and apparently have weekends free.

So I'm thinking, how can you begrudge the landowner who is financially strapped, is working 24/7 to keep his land and questions whether to let you hunt it for free? I'm currently painting my barn, had a major fenceline clearing project this spring, baled small squares of hay onto the ground then loaded them on racks, but most likely won't see a hunter until season opens.....

 

[bjkpharmd]

If everyone HAD to lease to hunt, they may spend more time on THEIR lease or THEIR land instead of running their four wheelers over MY place. Just fixed fence again where someone decided they just had to have something for FREE- access to my place.

 

[deernstuff]

Pharmer, that's a VB. county thing. I spent 2 days this spring doing the same thing down there. It wouldn't be so bad, but 2 spots were within 100yds of an unlocked gate...and people wonder why landowners want to take care of themselves.

 

[RICKH]

Leasing is'nt the answer to destruction, alot of the ones that can afford to lease haven't had to work for it (manually) so they just don't care. It is to bad none of the hunters stop by and offer a hand. I did see one of the farmers that I hunt on bailing hay this summer and stopped to help. I also hunt another older farmers ground that I stop by and visit with from time to time. Its not money but to him its just as good.

 

[blake]

Well, I am sure that I will get my A$$ kicked for posting this thread, but her goes.

I live in SW Iowa; SW Iowa is not the richest farming country in the State of Iowa. However, most of the farmers I know and talk with on a regular bases farm/own 1000 plus areas of land.

When talking to my farmer friends and having been raised on a farm I have deep rooted feelings for concerns of the farmer. I realize that the operational cost of farming is no small financial investment.

Most of my farmer friends will tell you that there are very few really poor farmers in this modern day and age. Life is a choice, farmers are for the most part professionals; many have college degrees and the latest equipment to purse their choice in farming as a career.

The reality is that modern times are no different for the farmer, than they are for the unemployed, the factory worker, the waitress, or the professional worker. No matter what path we chose to pursue for a profession we all need money to feed our families, pay the health insurance, the home mortgage, and car payment. I realize that it is human nature to want more for your family.

The State of Iowa owns the wildlife, not the farmer or the deer hunter. I realize that the deer are responsible for a good deal of crop damage, but many of the farmers in my community who complain about the high deer population and crop damage do not allow hunting. I as a hunter, and many other hunters that I know, we would be more than willing to help you reduce this over population of antlerless deer if you will be kind enough to allow us to do so! Non-resident hunters are only interested in Big Horns. They also will not be around to help support the community when they get their buck.

Here in SW Iowa good deal of todays farm land is in the CRP program, which is federally funded by tax payers. Those farmers who are enrolled in the CRP program subsidize their chosen life style in part from the CRP funding paid by tax payers. Yet some of them dont allow hunting to those whom have helped finance the CRP program and the farmering way of life.

The funds spent each year by hunters and the farmers in a community benefit all of those who live in the communitiy. Good Communities are based on friendship, cooperation, and trust. Hopefully none of us, be we farmers or hunters will let the greed for money come between us.

 

[scout]

Why?
Why is it's I'm at work third shift on Saturday night?
Like last night? Like Sunday night?
No we all don't have bankers hours and weekends off.(some of us even have 2nd jobs!)
Alot of people were not meant to be business owners and are not very well versed in operating a million dollar operation.
Some guys fail on the same land they end up renting to another farmer who makes a good go of it. Why?
Like any other way of making a living in this world you find guys who are go getters and others who spend there time at Thiesen's because lightbulbs are on sale.

Me? I'm broke too. Other guys manage to hang on to thier first communion money.

Why? Do I see 250-350k houses being built by people who retired or decided to sell thier farms. It seems the increased value of farm land has done people well. I wish I had a couple hundred acres in crp and timber reserve the past ten years. I'd sell! build a 300k home and have my weekends off!
Or better yet start a guide service and rent the crop ground to the neighbor! Let that poor ba$tard bust his hump!
Being a Deer Pimp just may be my calling

God bless the working man! Paddle or swim! you choose.

 

[5465]

well i was going to try to stay away from this whole anti-leasing/anti-nonres thing but i can't. so i'll just tell you my point of view on both cases and try to make a point or 2.

as far as the anti-leasing goes, i agree with the ones who disagree with the anti-leasing. my opinion as to why this leasing thing has exploded in recent years, is probably different from others. i feel that leasing has exploded not because farmers are hard up for money but i feel it is all because of that "BIG BOONE & CROCKETT BUCK" that every hunter wants. look at the money that some people, organizations, and buisnesses will pay for a set of antlers. this world is full of greedy people. these famers and other land owners have caught on to the value of those "BIG ANTLERS" and are taking advantage. to 85% of the hunting population it's all about getting that big buck. hunting is not what it used to be when i was younger, when you went out and had fun with family and friends, antlers didn't even matter. and yes i want to shoot a big buck as much as the next guy but to me there ain't much of a difference between a 6 point and a 12 point, other then it makes more sense to put a 12 point on the wall instead of the 6. anyways go back and look at the post, i believe it was "WHAT'S YOUR GOAL", look at the amount of responses where people said i am going to hold out for a big one. i myself said i was going after a certain size deer but when it comes down to it, i shoot a small one too. there was a post here a while back i believe shredder put on here about a situation if you seen a 130 class 8 pointer once in early season, mid-season, and late season, would you lete it pass? a lot of the responses were i would eat my tag and wait for next year. i personally feel the "BIG MONSTER BUCK" is what is ruining our sport, and causing this leasing explosion.

as for land owners out there who hunt and allow no one to hunt on your land(i'm not saying anyone on this site is like that i am just trying to make a point) i ask you one question "DO YOU REMEMBER BACK WHEN YOU DIDN'T EVEN OWN AN ACRE?". i remember when i didn't and it was damn hard to find a piece of property to hunt on. of course tresspassers are going to happen and you have to do away with them the best you can, now i am an avid hunter but i will let anyone hunt if they ask and prove to me that they are ethical and will respect me. i have no problem with it at all. makes people enjoy the sport more.

now as far as the non-res goes, i know most people on this have a strong dislike for non-res hunting, i am all for it, yes i do believe that some laws need to change to help the resident hunters out but for me to have a strong dislike for someone because they want to better there chances and come to ohio to shoot a bigger buck then what there state can offer, is being disrespectful to our sport. i know that if the average monster buck in my state was a 130-140 class buck i would definetly try a state with a better average monster, and if the people in that state were disrespectful to me and let me know how thay felt about out-of-towners then i would probably have to rethink my respect for my fellow hunters. i welcome anyone to ohio, you can hunt on my land.

just my 2 cents

Pete

 

[strugs]

"The State of Iowa owns the wildlife, not the farmer or the deer hunter."

The State of Iowa does not own the wildlife, the residents of the State of Iowa do. The people of the U.S. own migratory wildlife.

 

[klg53]

JNRBRONC
Where in Iowa are you from? If youre close to me in NW Iowa i will come help anytime you need it. I spent 10 hours chopping silage for free yseterday just because i miss farm work and they needed help (i might be crazy because i worked about 60 hours in the 5 previous days). If you'd let me hunt it would be a bonus for me.

 

[150 Class]

JNRBRONC - To answer your question, I think it is because the average hunter has the wrong attitude about what is happening right in front of him. He has his blinders on. There arent very many free lunches out there and that is what some of us have enjoyed for a long time.

strugs - The land owner has the right to decide who hunts the deer on his land whether it is owned by him the state or the people. That is unless he rents the ground in which case the tenant then has the right (unless specified otherwise in the contract). So, it looks on paper like someone else might own the deer but in the real world, the landowner does.

Blake - I'll probably risk getting my a$$ kicked too. Oops...hey wait! I forgot that I changed my profile since where we are is a paranoia induced secret. If you go hunting in Illinois, Kansas or Canada or any other whitetail hot spot, are you going to use your tag on a doe? As for the government subsidizing the farmers income, they do that on more than just CRP and CRP isnt a moneymaker. If it were, more people would enroll. But, almost all farmers depend on the government to help them out. More so on the crop subsidies than on CRP. Does that change our rights as taxpayers? Do you suggest that because you are a taxpayer that you can hunt anywhere that you please in the State or Country?

scout - The Working Man attitude won't cut it. Blue Collar, White Collar, they all have a chance at that property you hunt. Don't put your blinders on. Do you think that there arent any good White Collar people out there? There are many of them that like to hunt just as much as you, some with money, some with good personalities, some with the time to stop by and help or to just say hello. I see you in a creek without a paddle in the future.

pharmer - I have the same darn problem. I'll try to get a picture of some of the trails sometime in the next few days.

BK2 - I agree with you and wish there were more hunters out there like you. Most landowners are more happy with a simple "thank you" or "hi how are you doing" than they are with charging you to hunt. Going the extra step should make a lasting impression that will most likely keep you in for years to come.

SplitG3 - I agree with most of what you have to say but think a big part of the problem is the blue collar guy getting complacent and not appreciating what he had and the other guy figuring out that flashing around a little green was easier than going door to door. The landowner sees the green and says heck yesthe heck with that other guy who never stops by and never shows any kind of appreciation.

 

[scout]

150 class - How did ya derive a dislike for white collar folks for my post?
My point is every one struggles and is out to make a buck and busts thier hump. "God bless the working man" Was a suttle attempt to say if you are not happy with your position or your pay, change it don't bellyache about it.
God bless the working man... as if there was only one.

As for blinders, I have rose colored glasses man! Thats how I see it makes no sence paddeling against the tide.
As for White collar/Blue collar, I'd rather surround myself with the haves rather than the have not's. I know more than a couple nice rich guys.
In a creek without a paddle? Because I don't sugar coat things enough?

 

[locust]

I am a relatively new landowner(under 3 years of 100 acres) and I have always typed a response to this type of topic, but never sent it because of the passion it stirs. I hunted public land and sometimes an uncle's land(if the uncles kids were in for a hunt, me and my brother went to public land not to crowd them) growing up and I became a landowner because I want to hunt and manage my own property and also have a safe place to show my kids the outdoors. I too am in SE Iowa. I guess I always had a hard time understanding the terse response to why a landowner would not want others to hunt their land. I didn't like public land hunting(in WI) because it was crowded and because of unsafe/unethical hunters. It just wasn't worth it nor did I enjoy it as much as I wanted. So, if I let person A hunt my place, why not person B? Pretty soon I turn into a poor-man's-outfitter because I do all of my spring/summer work(not to mention cost) so others can hunt in the fall. I personally don't have the gumption to walk up to a landowner I don't know and say "do you mind if I hunt here". I would have to know the person or be doing the work for the person(or preferebly have him ask me). I personally feel the biggest obstacle to having landowners give hunting access to neighbors is for a landowner with my experience seeing less ready-shoot-aim hunters, finding less headless deer carcasses along with the pack/party hunters who shoot up deer without regards to any management plan. I guess I am just trying to say if a guy puts time and money and sweat into buying and improving a piece of land, don't take it as arrogance or "city slicker" that he wants to enjoy his property in peace with his family.

 

[avidhunter]

I doubt many people on this site have had anything handed to them... meaning, we all work hard to earn a buck (no pun intended). The problem I see with having to lease land, is that the rich man wins, plain and simple. Money talks and bulls%$t walks. So, the rich attorney from NY, Chicago, Minneapolis, [enter BIG city here], flies into Iowa, waves a fistful of dollars in the face of a farmer to get a chance at "Big Horns", shutting out the little guy who has hunted the area for years (having sent numerous X-mas cards to the landowner, rubbing elbows at the sale barn, helping out here and there, etc...) and low and behold, the doe herd increases, doing $XXXX.XX more damage to the farmer's crop???

So, I say, open up Iowa to all the Non-residents, so the landowners/farmers can hit paydirt and the rich man can have his horns - while the little guy crowds into public hunting ground, with all of the other landless peasantry (me included)

I have to agree with Scout...if you can't make $$$ in one industry, get out! Retrain, try something else, get a different job... don't expect handouts from anybody. Take some responsibility for your livelihood. This is not aimed at anyone in particular...just common sense. If there's no money to be made in something, then why are you still doing it?????? I know people that have changed jobs several times, due to layoffs, changes in the economy, whatever... and they survived quite well, by adapting.

I have the utmost respect for people that started with nothing (no money, no land...)and had to work hard in life to get ahead. God, I just hope I never have to strike it rich to hunt in Iowa

 

[blake]

You’re Question: “If you go hunting in Illinois, Kansas or Canada or any other whitetail hot spot, are you going to use your tag on a doe?â€

My answer: I don’t hunt in any of those states you mention. I also have no idea what the cost of a non-resident doe tag is in those states you mentioned is. I do however understand that a non-resident doe tag in Iowa is pricey. My point in my post was that all too often some landowners complain about the high deer population and the crop damage but they don’t allow deer hunting.


Your statement: “As for the government subsidizing the farmer’s income, they do that on more than just CRP and CRP isn’t a moneymaker. If it were, more people would enroll. But, almost all farmers depend on the government to help them out. More so on the crop subsidies than on CRPâ€.

My response: I wasn’t going to mention that farmers get a good deal of government assistance other than the CRP but since you did………………I don’t however see the government stepping in with financial assistance to help out a local café, gas station, or grocery store that is falling on hard times.

Your question: “Does that change our rights as taxpayers?†“Do you suggest that because you are a taxpayer that you can hunt anywhere that you please in the State or Country?â€

My response: I am in no way suggesting that the farmer/landowner should not have the right to control access of their property. I am a land owner myself and no I don’t feel that I have the right to hunt any where that I want to. I would further mention that I would help out any of the landowners that I hunt on, even if I didn’t hunt on them I would help them out if they ask me to. What I don’t see is any landowner offering to bus the dishes for a waitress when the farmer and his family go out to eat. Or offering to come into a nursing and helping the CNA bathe and care for the farmer’s grand mother. Or offering to help the health care worker in a combative situation due to a psychotic person cranked up on methamphetamine that the got out of the farmers anhydrous ammonia tank. My point is, life is a choice-do the best that you can at your chosen profession.

 

[bjkpharmd]

I think that landowners are "adapting" by earning a dollar where they can. Why shouldn't they? I don't follow the message that landowners should adapt or change jobs so that everyone can hunt for free instead of the other way around. Get a better job and save money for your own place if you don't like public land.

 

[avidhunter]

Well, the law of supply and demand will work this way: the rich men will supply the landowners with money, and the demand for hunting will decrease (as the supply of land decreases - and since no one can afford to hunt). Let's see, then the supply of antlerless deer will increase, thence will the demand on your wallet increase, since auto insurance rates will go up due to more accidents, as will state and federal taxes (which subsidize ethanol producers - since more does eat more corn). Pretty much the trend we are seeing right now with declining numbers of hunters will increase....you see, it's a vicious circle ...soooooo eventually, the demand for hunters will increase, in order to staunch the abundancy of deer, as landowners will realize the "Big Money" hunters only want to shoot "Big Bucks" So, we will eventually end up with plenty of lease-free land to hunt once again... btw, it's not "hunting for free" if you're taggin' out several does each season, you're saving the farmer money by doing a service if ya ask me

 

[pberter]

I hardly respond to any threads, but really enjoy this site. I have read this thread and others on this subject. It's frustrating for the hunter and for the landowner. The mightly dollar controls us no matter what we think or like. This thread is just like politics, and like my father says, you shouldn't argue religion and politics.
Good luck to all!!

 

[blake]

You are right. And since I respect the views of most of the members on this great sight I am no longer going to post any responses to this thread. Everyone is entitled to their thoughts and views on this subject.

 

[150 Class]

scout - I did not say that you do not like the white collar working man but I can see how you imply that. I did imply that you were blue collar and I apologize if I was wrong about that and right or wrong, I should not have done that. It was not meant as an insult for if it were, it would be a slap to my own face (I could probably use that right now). I do honor the workingman like you. I also respect the landowner’s rights. I do imply that we (all hunters, collectively or individually) do need to sugar coat. If nothing else, when it comes to the pay to hunt or no hunt, at least I hope I am in good enough to get the first shot at that option and not have the rug pulled from underneath me. We cannot make excuses for not doing it and then complain about it when we loose our hot spot to someone else. Blake - You make some good points. The government getting their hands in the ag world business is here to stay. If they hadn't done it in the first place that might be different today but they did, and it isn't. The farmer who complains about the crop damage and fails to allow hunting just plain and simply is a hypocrite. I, like you, appreciate the waitress or nurse or policeman or painter or doctor or the Marine or Navy Seal or other workers and the place they have in our society. They earn their right to do what they want with their lives and their assets, just like the farmer, you, and me.

This whole tread started about why do we on this site begrudge the farmer? That is the reason for my replies. I see several examples in this tread about why the farmer might not want to let us on his farm, either as hunters or trespassers or whatever. Some of us do little to gain his respect and without knowing it, do a great job at earning some disrespect. Our excuses are lame at best. Your free lunch is going to be gone before too long as has been suggested by several of you. You can become a good friend of the farmer, do some work to help secure your privilege to hunt his ground (it’s not a right), or pay to hunt, or a combination of all of these. You can also come here to complain when the farmer tells you to stick it where the sun don’t shine and while you will probably gain some sympathy from many of the readers, it could be that you were warned and didn’t do anything about it. Have it your way.

 

[djhunter]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I am just trying to say if a guy puts time and money and sweat into buying and improving a piece of land, don't take it as arrogance or "city slicker" that he wants to enjoy his property in peace with his family.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you all play basketball in the lobby of 801 Grand? It's big enough and it used to be a parking lot that we could do that on. Do you play baseball on the field at the Principle field because you are a resident of Iowa? Do you ride 4 wheelers in your neighbors yard because it used to be a vacant lot? No, you don't. Someone else OWNS it. They paid money for it. They pay taxes on it. They work the land, put up fences and maintain a life on it. You don't. Yes they are making money selling the rights to this land...it's a GOLD MINE!!! If you won the lottery would you give it back? If you found the pot of gold would you donate it? NO. This is theirs to do with as they please. This sport is not free. It cost money to buy the bow, shotgun, arrows, shells, etc., so why do you think it should be free to hunt someone else's land? That is just arrogant. Give them a break...you are all just ticked you don't own the land and are taking it out on others who can/do. I expect this from my 3 year old, but not from you guys.