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WORST Managed State for Whitetails

Sligh1

Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
I was thinking, what is your opinion on the WORST managed states for whitetails. Quality, age structure, buck to doe ratios, overpopulated/over capacity, Bowhunting opportunity (early gun season means short bow season for rut hunting), B&C books (not P&Y as B&C really shows age and top quality), etc, etc. Which one and why?

Any suggestion of hope for the state?



**My VOTE/OPINION- I have to nominate my home state of MICHIGAN. It's a shame I have this opinion, in my opinion the DNR should be ashamed and most the deer managers FIRED!!!

Reasons- 1) They have one of the highest number of hunters and still can't get the deer numbers under control 2) two bucks for anyone during any season 3) gun season is right during peak rut- Nov 15 4) Age structure is TERRIBLE!!! 90% of 1&1/2 year old bucks are killed. 1&1/2's are pretty much the mature bucks and do vast majority of breeding. VERY FEW older bucks on average state-wide. Hunters are content to have a camp that goes out and kills 10 to 15 1&1/2 old bucks between them- attitude of who ever shoots the most bucks had the best deer camp. 5) Older bucks don't get big in upper 2/3rd's of state from overpopulation and poor nutrition. Sadly, I feel MI's hunting is a joke. I feel bad folks that are trying to make it better but are running circles. 6) It sucks because it has POTENTIAL- it could has the genetics and nutrition in southern part of state BUT the whole state kills every 1&1/2 year old buck out there! 6) bowhunter's get short season while hunting is good- most wait for Nov 1, then they might have several WARM days- gun season arrives and the year's done in NO TIME- BUMMER!
MI gets my vote with EASE!

MI could turn things around if they STARTED by moving the gun season to AFTER THE RUT (Dec 5 for example) AND put a 1 buck law into force!
 
Compelling argument, Sligh. But I'll have to counter with MN.

* Gun season starts first weekend of November, statewide. (In the southeast, this was a bucks-only season until just recently)Season last for 16 days.

* Right after general firearms season, two weeks of muzzleloader hunting. Bucks are basically "under the gun" for 6 weeks.

* Most units the buck harvest tops the doe harvest every year.

* MN USED TO BE the #1 state for B&C entries. That's only because we had about a 20-30 year jump on everyone else. We are now barely in the top 10, and the only reason we're there is because of our historical records. If you compared MN to other Midwestern states in the last decade, we'd barely register.

* In short, at least as good a potential as any state that surrounds us, yet we pale in comparison when it comes to mature buck harvest.

I thereby nominate MN as "Greatest Underachiever" /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif
 
Take a look at Iowa DNR effort to stop above mentioned issues and I would have to say down here things are OK....For now anyway. Hope the trend continues. Maybe MN and MI should look at the WI earn a buck and the issues you both mentioned and it would do wonders for both states. Not like you guys don't have the habitat for some spectacular deer hunting, just sad you government isn't doing the right things. Wait a minute, does the government ever really do the right thing? lol. Hope things get better, happy hunting
 
My vote is MN, probably cuz I live here and I dream of hunting Iowa.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whitetailassasin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Maybe MN and MI should look at the WI earn a buck</div></div>
I gotta agree with this however, MN in alot of areas went back to a antlerless drawing this last year. Our herd in alot of the state IS in check. A Earn-A-Buck would only lower our herd numbers further. I have pretty much lost hope for MN.
 
Biggest hope for MN and MI is the LATE gun season - most folks DON'T think of this as the #1 way to improve buck quality, that would be my starting point issue if I could change ONE thing right off the bat.

I even look across our line to Missouri and feel bad that our side of the fence is SO MUCH BETTER because they are BLAZING rifles in peak rut- what a shame. We do lots of other great things BUT that would be a START with the biggest impact FOR SURE to get things going in right direction.

*Obviously, when you see the best "BIG BUCK STATES" - ONLY looking at big bucks- they are almost all super late gun or super short gun season. The top top top states- iowa, kansas, illinois. Other states are moving in right direction too! MI seems like they'll FIGHT TO STAY CRAPPY!!! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
From what I hear, Pennsylvania is probably the worst state. Small state with over a million hunters yearly in it with the attitude if its brown, its down.
 
Being from Pa. I have to rate them amoung the worst. The numbers of hunters are declining below 1 million but their game management skills leave a lot to be desired as well as the attitude of a lot of hunters.

There was a time when deer numbers were sufficient but the brown it's down mentality was always a problem, especially when the combined doe & buck seasons & issued bonus tags. Now the great north deer country has very few deer & the hunters can't just blame the Game Commission but should blame themselves fro not practicing QDM. The antler restrictions do help but there's more people hunting rural farm land instead of the big woods putting way too much pressure on the deer & making finding a sacrid farm to hunt nearly impossible. The estimated harvest last year was over 450,000 deer!

One of my biggest complaints is having a week of early muzzleloader in the niddle of October followed by 3 days of high powered rifles, tends to make my beloveded archery seasson hard to enjoy anymore. Now the approved cross bows for archery season as well as any other season, what next?

Here are the seasons from last year;

2008-2009 Pennsylvania Deer Seasons & Dates

DEER, ARCHERY (Antlerless Only) WMUs 2B, 5C and 5D: Sept. 20-Oct. 3, Nov. 17-29 and Dec. 15-23. One antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

DEER, ARCHERY (Antlered and Antlerless) Statewide, including WMUs 2B, 5C and 5D: Oct. 4-Nov. 15 and Dec. 26-Jan. 10. One antlered deer per hunting license year. One antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

DEER (Antlered and Antlerless) WMUs 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, 2C, 2E, 2F, 3A, 3B, 3D, 4A, 4C, 4D, 4E, 5A, 5B, 5C and 5D: Dec. 1-13. One antlered deer per hunting license year. An antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

DEER (Antlered Only) WMUs 2D, 2G, 3C and 4B: Dec. 1-5. One antlered deer per hunting license year.

DEER (Antlered and Antlerless) WMUs 2D, 2G, 3C and 4B: Dec. 6-13. One antlered deer per hunting license year. An antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

DEER, ANTLERLESS (Statewide): Oct. 23-25. Junior and Senior License Holders, Disabled Person Permit (to use a vehicle) Holders, and Pennsylvania residents serving on active duty in the U.S. Armed Services or in the U.S. Coast Guard only, with required antlerless license. Also included are persons who have reached or will reach their 65th birthday in the year of the application for a license and hold a valid adult license, or qualify for license and fee exemptions under section 2706. One antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

DEER, ANTLERLESS MUZZLELOADER (Statewide): Oct. 18-25. An antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

DEER, ANTLERED OR ANTLERLESS FLINTLOCK (Statewide): Dec. 26-Jan. 10. One antlered per hunting license year, or one antlerless deer and an additional antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

DEER, Antlerless (WMUs 2B, 5C and 5D): Dec. 15-23 and Dec. 26-Jan. 24. An antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.

DEER, ANTLERLESS (Military Bases): Hunting permitted on days established by the U.S. Department of the Army at Letterkenny Army Depot, Franklin County; New Cumberland Army Depot, York County; and Fort Detrick, Raven Rock Site, Adams County. An antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.
 
North Dakota is not far behind.....

sorry Joshy
/forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
 
Yeah, for you folks that haven't hunted the high-pressured and SHOOT ANYTHING attitude of MI & PA, i think you'd appreciate any state in the midwest. I haven't hunted PA but it sounds just like MI. Folks in IA that have only hunted here don't realize how good we have it at the moment (hope it stays that way!!!).
 
I used to travel with my job quite a bit and spent some time in the Grand Rapids, MN, area during the fall one year, probably about 13-14 years ago now. During deer season I observed people that were downright giddy and actually slapping each other on the back if one guy said that they got a buck, etc. Dumb me, I took a look at the pictures one day and started laughing out loud. I really think I hurt the feelings of a couple of guys, but I thought they were joking.

I then realized that they were truly proud of their bucks, the biggest MAY have been a 30" 6 pointer. It was "scraghorn city" in my opinion, but these guys were proud and bragging to each other about "their buck".

Through the years I came to realize that this phenomenon was not limited to one area of one state, nor has it entirely disappeared. There are still a lot of grown men and women salivating at the chance to down a thin necked 1 1/2 year old...with a rifle no less. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

I have no problem with kids and first timers taking out a small buck, etc, but when you have been at it for years and are still getting a thrill from taking a baby buck, then hunter education and attitudes really need to change IMO.
 
Hawaii. They don't have squat for horn.











neener_neener.gif
 
South Carolina....

Rifle season
Aug. 15 thru Jan. 1
No dailiy or seasonal limit on bucks (tags not req'd)
Half of the states does not an archey season.
 
Pa. announced harvest numbers from this past season. This is an estimate since they only require hunters to mail in a harvest report card which few do & they factor that into it.

Out of 213,440 anterless deer harvested over 24% where button buck!

Out of 122,410 antlerd buck taken over 54% where 1 1/2 old!!!

This is the 2nd lowest harvest since 1987 according to the commission's records. That's a lot of immature buck taken out of the heard.

No restrictions on out of state tags either except for Elk. Cherish what you have in Iowa & fight any changes tooth & nail!!!
 
Reading this is depressing /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif Worked with a girl from Pennsylvania last summer that bow hunts and she said it was bad there. Guess she was right. They pretty much shoot anything there with no regards to QDM. Sad.....
 
NY is the worst, a million hunters and 1/2 million 1 1/2 bucks, This state might have a few deer but needs antler restriction.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to travel with my job quite a bit and spent some time in the Grand Rapids, MN, area during the fall one year, probably about 13-14 years ago now. During deer season I observed people that were downright giddy and actually slapping each other on the back if one guy said that they got a buck, etc. Dumb me, I took a look at the pictures one day and started laughing out loud. I really think I hurt the feelings of a couple of guys, but I thought they were joking.

I then realized that they were truly proud of their bucks, the biggest MAY have been a 30" 6 pointer. It was "scraghorn city" in my opinion, but these guys were proud and bragging to each other about "their buck".

Through the years I came to realize that this phenomenon was not limited to one area of one state, nor has it entirely disappeared. There are still a lot of grown men and women salivating at the chance to down a thin necked 1 1/2 year old...with a rifle no less. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

I have no problem with kids and first timers taking out a small buck, etc, but when you have been at it for years and are still getting a thrill from taking a baby buck, then hunter education and attitudes really need to change IMO.

</div></div>

Try living in MN after growing up in Iowa. The gun season here is sickening....the "I got my buck, bang my fists on my chest" mentality makes me want to puke here....they just DON'T get it. There are many people in this state that truly classify their deer season as a success if they even "see" a buck and that is no joke. If they put their tag on anything with antlers they go back to work and brag to anyone that will listen cause "I GOT MY BUCK".

I'd have to vote for MN too. Geographically where I live it looks identical to most of Iowa....only missing one thing....any kind of huntable population. I have sole access to over 1000 acres to bowhunt and I don't want to hunt ANY of it because nothing with antlers lives on it - and finding anything that resembles a scrape line is like - HA! I've driven hundreds of miles in the evenings in the last 3 years since I've lived here and rarely EVER see deer out feeding in the fields. Hardly any deer kills on the roads, very few in the spot light, and I drive a county highway 30 miles one way to work and I about slam on the brakes when I see a deer just so I can remember what they look like. I don't even think twice about slowing down at night for fear of hitting a deer...it just doesn't happen.

I have been in multiple discussions on a MN hunting forum about the gun season in the rut - the argument.....the gun season is "tradition" and they will never move it....also too many sallies that don't want to hunt during a MN December. I would be willing to bet that very few MN deer hunters have ever seen a mature buck on the hoof so they have no idea what they are missing so they continue to shoot anything they see.....until this mentality changes, this state will continue to suck.

Last year it was ONE DEER (doe by lottery permit only) where I live...as well as most of the southern SW half of MN. I think if the population is that low, do away with shooting any does for a few years period - but then they will assassinate the younger bucks so I don't know what to say other than I'll continue to spend more time in my duck boat and in the CRP chasing chickens than in a tree stand until the day comes when we can move out of this state and head south to the motherland.
 
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