Crimson Arrows
Well-Known Member
"After going back & reading some of the posts, I have some questions....
For those of you who say the 'thing' on my finger looks like a clot- doesn't it take awhile for a clot to form?
True clots perhaps but it could have been a larger piece of skin that was sheared off from the bullet. May in fact just be skin rather than lung/liver or a clot.
I still don't understand why it took so long for him to start bleeding and when it did, there was that huge spray.
It could have been that the angle he took or postion he took allowed "more" blood to be left at that one location. I always feel that the blood we see is small in comparison to what is truly left but again, a muscle or brisket can truly bleed like crazy at first and then just stop. Arterial blood flow will continue until the brain can no longer function due to hypoxia-and whether this happens before the lungs collapse or after is like the chicken/egg theory. Its seems muzzys and slugs kill more by "shock" than hemorrhage as an arrow would cause-thus the quicker kills sometimes.
Also about the 'thing' on my finger, there were a couple of them at that first blood sight. It definitely wasn't 'meaty' like a muscle would be , but it was solid, unlike I would imagine a blood clot would be, and it wasn't spongy like a lung. I've never really checked before....what type of tissue is in a brisket?
There is alot of fat in some bucks but essentially its a great deal of tissue and non-vascular tissue. If you can get "above" the brisket you will get into the arteries and capillaries that supply the heart-but below is nothing in the least bit vital. Lost a 160+ in 2008 in the brisket. got him on trail cam later that year but 1" higher and i would have had a taxi bill
Anyway, like I said, I'll be back at it tomorrow afternoon when I can get some time off work.
Thanks again for the input![/QUOTE]
On a final note:I think you have done EVERYTHING correct Dave and I greatly respect you for the time you have taken to find this animal. You are a credit to all hunters. In saying that-give it your all and then let it be-its part of the game and if you don't collect him-nature will sooner or later.:way:
For those of you who say the 'thing' on my finger looks like a clot- doesn't it take awhile for a clot to form?
True clots perhaps but it could have been a larger piece of skin that was sheared off from the bullet. May in fact just be skin rather than lung/liver or a clot.
I still don't understand why it took so long for him to start bleeding and when it did, there was that huge spray.
It could have been that the angle he took or postion he took allowed "more" blood to be left at that one location. I always feel that the blood we see is small in comparison to what is truly left but again, a muscle or brisket can truly bleed like crazy at first and then just stop. Arterial blood flow will continue until the brain can no longer function due to hypoxia-and whether this happens before the lungs collapse or after is like the chicken/egg theory. Its seems muzzys and slugs kill more by "shock" than hemorrhage as an arrow would cause-thus the quicker kills sometimes.
Also about the 'thing' on my finger, there were a couple of them at that first blood sight. It definitely wasn't 'meaty' like a muscle would be , but it was solid, unlike I would imagine a blood clot would be, and it wasn't spongy like a lung. I've never really checked before....what type of tissue is in a brisket?
There is alot of fat in some bucks but essentially its a great deal of tissue and non-vascular tissue. If you can get "above" the brisket you will get into the arteries and capillaries that supply the heart-but below is nothing in the least bit vital. Lost a 160+ in 2008 in the brisket. got him on trail cam later that year but 1" higher and i would have had a taxi bill
Anyway, like I said, I'll be back at it tomorrow afternoon when I can get some time off work.
Thanks again for the input![/QUOTE]
On a final note:I think you have done EVERYTHING correct Dave and I greatly respect you for the time you have taken to find this animal. You are a credit to all hunters. In saying that-give it your all and then let it be-its part of the game and if you don't collect him-nature will sooner or later.:way:
buberwin
Member
Talonted
Its Illegal to use dogs in Iowa, weather you are hunting or tracking a wounded animal with one. I know a STUPID law, but its the law. Good luck Dave, Hope you find him.
turtlshell
PMA Member
Not all artery hits will cause an animal to expire within 100yds. I shot a low 130's buck back in '96 during first shotgun. He was running broadside at 60yds and I was low with my shot, which skimmed the brisket and lodged in the opposite front leg. My shot hit the artery in the front leg and the spray was very similar to what Dave is looking at...as a matter of fact, Dave's blood is a lot more than what I was following. I pushed my buck for four hours because of a looming snow storm. I found him nearly bled out about 1.5 miles from where I had first shot him. He was spraying for the first 100 yds or so then it slowed down. I lost blood at a road, but was able to follow his tracks. He only went 55yds after crossing the road and then bedded down. Where he bedded was an absolute blood bath...had I not pushed him out of that bed he would have expired there.
Don't give up, he's done and laying somewhere!
Don't give up, he's done and laying somewhere!
AIRASSAULT
PMA Member
Last year I killed 3 deer with my muzz shooting 250 gr Hornady SST's... every one of them went anywhere from 20 to 50 yds with no sign of blood and some of them were even in the snow... so I think maybe just a small bullet hole from the muzz may explain why you had no blood at first. That piece on your finger.. maybe it's cartilidge from the brisket..?
chasefan31
New Member
The 2 deer I shot in early muzzy never left a hint of blood until they dropped, both 50 yards from where they were shot. Complete pass through with no bullet expansion. Both were about 45 yard shots and were 3 inches behind the shoulder. When field dressed their vitals were destroyed, but no blood left the body. I was using 300gr. Powerbelt hollow points. I'm bummed because they were WAY more accurate out of my gun than any of the other bullets I tried, but I need something that will open up.
cedar creek
Banned
We never had this problem 25 to 30 yrs. ago when all we had was the 50 caliber hawkens, and 300 gr maxi balls. The shots were usually less than 100 yds. and the hole was as big as a slug. I watched every buck drop within 30 yds.
antlerfreak
New Member
I hate when you shoot a deer only to find out that they ran aways before calling in the medic and vanishing Its happend to us all im sure. Myself a few times.
On the other hand, by the way you describe the area, you never know. I walked directly over a good buck once (with in inches) in crp and didnt know it until the next day. He had fallen in a washout about 4' deep and 2 feet wide and the crp was laying over the crevice. only when I was on my hands and knees looking for one more drop of blood did I come up on it,(scared the $hit out me) and another one I watched bed up in a thick nasty crp tipe ditch, The next morning I went to get him and must have gridded it for 10 hrs with nothing. I walked every square inch but still couldnt get it out of my head that he wasnt there. I went back the next day one more time out of disgust and walked it again, only that time I did find him right in the middle of it with his head cut off. I shot him the day before shotgun started and im guessing the orange army found him. Its amazing how I didnt see him the first day.
And Ive also hit them in the Briskett and had the same blood you describe to the T except for the blood stopping completly. usually it will go from a spray or heavy bleeding to only drops instantly, but the drop usually go for a long ways. Any chance he doubled back on you back to where you originally shot him whithout you seeing him?
I feel for ya, but there has to be a continuing blood trail somewhere, or hes right there and you walked over him. other wise Id say briskett and hope you get another shot at him.
good luck!
Its happend to us all im sure. Myself a few times.On the other hand, by the way you describe the area, you never know. I walked directly over a good buck once (with in inches) in crp and didnt know it until the next day. He had fallen in a washout about 4' deep and 2 feet wide and the crp was laying over the crevice. only when I was on my hands and knees looking for one more drop of blood did I come up on it,(scared the $hit out me) and another one I watched bed up in a thick nasty crp tipe ditch, The next morning I went to get him and must have gridded it for 10 hrs with nothing. I walked every square inch but still couldnt get it out of my head that he wasnt there. I went back the next day one more time out of disgust and walked it again, only that time I did find him right in the middle of it with his head cut off. I shot him the day before shotgun started and im guessing the orange army found him. Its amazing how I didnt see him the first day.
And Ive also hit them in the Briskett and had the same blood you describe to the T except for the blood stopping completly. usually it will go from a spray or heavy bleeding to only drops instantly, but the drop usually go for a long ways. Any chance he doubled back on you back to where you originally shot him whithout you seeing him?
I feel for ya, but there has to be a continuing blood trail somewhere, or hes right there and you walked over him. other wise Id say briskett and hope you get another shot at him.
good luck!
Do you have an update? Any luck? I sometimes have had luck looking in stupid spots (OK- just realized, similar things as the post above mine)- like one time I found a buck tucked under a massive hanging tree in a low spot on the ground - hard to describe BUT a random spot & one time we found one under a mess of fencing that was wound up about 2 feet off the ground. And water of course. We've found in spring and later can't believe how many times we walked near or by them while searching the previous fall.
Just out of curiosity and I do NOT mean to rub it in... How big was this thing, description of size?
Best of luck, we've all been there, bummer, keep plugging!!
Just out of curiosity and I do NOT mean to rub it in... How big was this thing, description of size?
Best of luck, we've all been there, bummer, keep plugging!!
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Well, my update does not contain good news, unfortunately.
I went out yesterday afternoon in my waders and walked the other branch of the creek/slough that is the "T" part, zig-zagged thru the ditch on the way back to the truck, drove all the fenclines of the property I could and walked the parts that i couldn't drive, drove both sides of all the terraces (again), drove thru the combined field and glassed it and came up empty.
Back at it this afternoon.
Sligh, as far as the size of the deer, I see deer this big on a semi-regular basis on this site, but I've never seen one like it around where I'm at. It was quite possibly the deer of a lifetime for the 'open country' where I hunt- mainframe 10, small 11th but really wide, I would guess 24". I'd been watching him for awhile and named him Thumper because he made my heart thump everytime I'd look at the pics. I can say, though, that no matter how excited I'd get looking at the pics and when I saw him on the hoof, it comes no where near the feelings of guilt & defeat I'm having right now.
Good God, there's something wrong with me.....I feel like I'm writing an obituary for this damn deer and my eyes are getting watery.
I'm sorry, Thumper....you deserved to go out better than this.
I went out yesterday afternoon in my waders and walked the other branch of the creek/slough that is the "T" part, zig-zagged thru the ditch on the way back to the truck, drove all the fenclines of the property I could and walked the parts that i couldn't drive, drove both sides of all the terraces (again), drove thru the combined field and glassed it and came up empty.
Back at it this afternoon.
Sligh, as far as the size of the deer, I see deer this big on a semi-regular basis on this site, but I've never seen one like it around where I'm at. It was quite possibly the deer of a lifetime for the 'open country' where I hunt- mainframe 10, small 11th but really wide, I would guess 24". I'd been watching him for awhile and named him Thumper because he made my heart thump everytime I'd look at the pics. I can say, though, that no matter how excited I'd get looking at the pics and when I saw him on the hoof, it comes no where near the feelings of guilt & defeat I'm having right now.
Good God, there's something wrong with me.....I feel like I'm writing an obituary for this damn deer and my eyes are getting watery.
I'm sorry, Thumper....you deserved to go out better than this.
If you've walked all the cover in that area and did not find him, then he's probably still alive. It certainly was not a gut shot with that amount of blood spray, so it's not like he walked 2 miles away and died. IMO, since you did not push him he's either dead 150 yards from where he entered the ditch, or he is still alive. If you've searched it all, then I would assume he is alive.
sethgade280
New Member
I think he is alive. I didn't want to rain on your parade at first, but I saw this same thing happen with a bow shot last season. He hit in brisket and the deer bleed like a stuck pig for a long ways. He came running pass me spraying blood on the other end of my 40. Got pics of him the next week eating apples. The blood is close to the lungs so there will be bubbles and brighter. Anything else and you would have thumper if you didn't push him....which you didn't. even a gut shot deer would have bedded down and you would have found him the next day or so with all the walking around you did. Sucks I know.....lost too many of my own, but I think he is alive and well. Try to sleep better...you may still get him yet this year.
Ok guys, sorry I got all weepy there yesterday....it's been an emotional week....I'll turn in my man card at the next meeting.
I'm not completely giving up on looking.....I'm going to drive out there every morning before & after work and on my lunch break to look for buzzards & crows, and I've got one, maybe 2 more afternoons before the weekend I can walk around out there. Plus the ditches I've been looking in (and the surrounding ditches on other properties in case he's alive) get pounded by pheasant hunters. If it's not our group going thru there, I know all the other people who hunt the area, and while I don't really want to let the cat out of the bag that there's a 'big deer' out there, I think I need to let those other guys know to keep an eye out for it, both on the hoof and possibly dead in the ditch.
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Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part and I'm trying to make myself feel better because I haven't found him yet, but yesterday I was having a conversation with my buddy and we talked about the facts of what we know for sure happened and here's what we came up with:
He reminded me that when I first talked to him to tell him I shot at this deer (before we even went back to the spot to start tracking) he had asked me if I hit him good. I said I wasn't really sure becuase I didn't hear the 'thump', 'crack' or 'smack' sound that you usually hear when you make a good hit. Whether that was because it was from 160 yards or becuase it hit him in an area outside of his chest cavity, I can't say for sure, but i do know I could hear the bullet 'smack' the 3/8" plywood board our targets were on when we were shooting earlier in the year.
We also talked about the blood trail. While there was 'quite a bit' of blood where we first found it, and a 'decent' blood trail to where we lost it (or he quit bleeding), we talked about how much total blood it would have been if we would have put it in a container. We both agreed that it would have been way less than a cup. IF he did in fact stop bleeding, that's not much blood loss at all. (Granted, he could have bled out internally too).
So considering those things, I'm at least hoping that he might still be alive somewhere and that someone sees him pheasant hunting this weekend.
The wife & I are going to our 20 week ultrasound today so we can take a look at baby #3 (which really helps to keep things in perspective about what really matters in life), so this afternoon's out for looking. I'll have a few hours tomorrow and hopefully a few on Friday, and after that, as much as I hate to say it I'm going to call of my ground search and hope the birds help me find him or that the pheasant hunters see or find him. As much as it sucks and as guilty as I feel, I know it's part of the game and in my own mind & heart I feel like I've done my due dilligence to try & recover this animal.
On a seperate note, I'm not really sure how I feel now about starting this thead in the first place since things are turning out the way they are. I'm admittedly not real crazy about confessing in front of my peers that I put a bad hit on the deer of a lifetime, I can't recover it and the end of the search is in sight, but I guess what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Hopefully I'll have some sort of better news after the weekend.
On a brighter note, I've still got a bow tag in my pocket and while they're not the caliber of this one, I've still got a hit list and the sun shall come up tomorrow!
Thanks again for all your help & advice guys, I really appreciate it! :way:
I'm not completely giving up on looking.....I'm going to drive out there every morning before & after work and on my lunch break to look for buzzards & crows, and I've got one, maybe 2 more afternoons before the weekend I can walk around out there. Plus the ditches I've been looking in (and the surrounding ditches on other properties in case he's alive) get pounded by pheasant hunters. If it's not our group going thru there, I know all the other people who hunt the area, and while I don't really want to let the cat out of the bag that there's a 'big deer' out there, I think I need to let those other guys know to keep an eye out for it, both on the hoof and possibly dead in the ditch.
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Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part and I'm trying to make myself feel better because I haven't found him yet, but yesterday I was having a conversation with my buddy and we talked about the facts of what we know for sure happened and here's what we came up with:
He reminded me that when I first talked to him to tell him I shot at this deer (before we even went back to the spot to start tracking) he had asked me if I hit him good. I said I wasn't really sure becuase I didn't hear the 'thump', 'crack' or 'smack' sound that you usually hear when you make a good hit. Whether that was because it was from 160 yards or becuase it hit him in an area outside of his chest cavity, I can't say for sure, but i do know I could hear the bullet 'smack' the 3/8" plywood board our targets were on when we were shooting earlier in the year.
We also talked about the blood trail. While there was 'quite a bit' of blood where we first found it, and a 'decent' blood trail to where we lost it (or he quit bleeding), we talked about how much total blood it would have been if we would have put it in a container. We both agreed that it would have been way less than a cup. IF he did in fact stop bleeding, that's not much blood loss at all. (Granted, he could have bled out internally too).
So considering those things, I'm at least hoping that he might still be alive somewhere and that someone sees him pheasant hunting this weekend.
The wife & I are going to our 20 week ultrasound today so we can take a look at baby #3 (which really helps to keep things in perspective about what really matters in life), so this afternoon's out for looking. I'll have a few hours tomorrow and hopefully a few on Friday, and after that, as much as I hate to say it I'm going to call of my ground search and hope the birds help me find him or that the pheasant hunters see or find him. As much as it sucks and as guilty as I feel, I know it's part of the game and in my own mind & heart I feel like I've done my due dilligence to try & recover this animal.
On a seperate note, I'm not really sure how I feel now about starting this thead in the first place since things are turning out the way they are. I'm admittedly not real crazy about confessing in front of my peers that I put a bad hit on the deer of a lifetime, I can't recover it and the end of the search is in sight, but I guess what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Hopefully I'll have some sort of better news after the weekend.
On a brighter note, I've still got a bow tag in my pocket and while they're not the caliber of this one, I've still got a hit list and the sun shall come up tomorrow!
Thanks again for all your help & advice guys, I really appreciate it! :way:
I thought of this also and now I really wish I would have done it on Monday.
I don't have lock boxes for my cameras and this ditch is notorious for getting pounded for pheasants (which, I'm surprised to say, there are actually a decent amount of around) and I'm afraid I'd end up losing my cameras.
I'm just going to put my hopes that the pheasant hunters see or find him (if I don't see/find him before that). If it's not our group that sees/finds him, it's a small community and I'll hear about it if someone sees or finds him.
stringleech
PMA Member
you arent the only one that lost a big buck if in fact this one is dead, i lost a 140 inch ten a few years ago here in wis. would have been my biggest and a guy found it and wouldnt even let me touch the antlers, he had them mounted for himself but a friend who was hunting with me saw them and agreed it was my buck...that was sickening for me to this day but i didnt give up. i think your buck is alive and like most guys in here said it was prob a brisket shot. they bleed like crazy for awhile and than plug up. i bet it doesnt even hurt them after a day or two so like others said put out a camera and you will prob see him again. keep your chin up though and get back on them....