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frost seed clover

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marshall

PMA Member
Still very new to the food plotting process. I have a 1.5 acre plot in the timber that i had brassica mix in last fall. I want to frost seed clover in the plot this year. So couple of questions, hopefully not too dumb...

1. Is it too early to start putting seed out?
2. There are quite a few leaves from surrounding trees on the plot from last fall, should i remove them, or will they not matter?
3. After the clover sprouts how much fertilizer should i put down?

Thanks in advance, any advice is greatly appreciated.
 
Thank you. I will take a leaf blower to the plot next week, although i am hoping that the 50 mph winds took care of the leaves for me.
 
A leaf blower will work, but a mower will work even better in my experience. Can you get a mower to the plot? If so, start in the center of the plot and mow with the discharge going away from the center...eventually you will be shooting the discharge off of the plot AND the mower hopefully will have eliminated whatever was there on the surface holding the leaves.

OR...spread your clover seed and then mow. The action of the mower will ensure that the tiny seeds get knocked off of the leaves and hit the soil surface.

I have done both of these things with success in the past.
 
Good idea. I have one corner of the plot that started to get some grasses in it so i was already going to take an old push mower up there to mow it as short as possible. A lot of the plot is bare dirt, I had seeded brassica in to this plot last summer but i think due to a lack of fertilizer the plants germinated well but stunted. So my plan is to try and get clover established for a couple years, the deer density on this plot is fairly high so hoping a mix of white and red clovers will hold up.

I am assuming i will have to spot spray something to kill any grasses that pop up in the spring, but based on what i have read if i get clover going early enough it can choke out weeds/grasses.

Thank you for the advice, it is greatly appreciated.
 
marshall said:
Good idea. I have one corner of the plot that started to get some grasses in it so i was already going to take an old push mower up there to mow it as short as possible. A lot of the plot is bare dirt, I had seeded brassica in to this plot last summer but i think due to a lack of fertilizer the plants germinated well but stunted. So my plan is to try and get clover established for a couple years, the deer density on this plot is fairly high so hoping a mix of white and red clovers will hold up.

I am assuming i will have to spot spray something to kill any grasses that pop up in the spring, but based on what i have read if i get clover going early enough it can choke out weeds/grasses.

Thank you for the advice, it is greatly appreciated.
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Another thought...given that you said that this plot is in the timber and you had stunted brassicas...

Have you done a soil test? If not, I would highly advise it. Almost always, a plot started out "in the timber" is going to need lime...lot's of lime. But, get the soil test done and confirm that. This is a good time of the year to add lime too.

Also, coming from someone that has made a few "in the timber" plots, only to have to revisit them in subsequent years to get them "working" better...take a good look at what trees are still shading that plot. Now is the best time of the year to knock out some "shady characters".

Be sure you know your trees before starting up the chainsaw though, but I suspect that you may have a couple/few shagbark hickories on the edge of the plot, or even back off the plot 5-20 yards or so, that just by removing them you would greatly increase the sunlight to your plot.

Lastly, although it takes a lot of time to do so...please read through the voluminous writings of Paul Knox, aka Dbltree, here on IW. These are found in Dbltree's Corner...look particularly for the thread on clover. It will take you some time to comb through these, but there is exceptionally valuable information to be gained from these legacy threads. Good luck!
 
Most of the trees have been removed when the landowner was fixing fence lines. This plot sits on a ridge top between 2 sections of timber. About 70% of the plot is full sun. The only trees that were left are mature oaks that drop lots of acorns. Most of the leaves are on the edge of the plot closest to the timber.

I am getting a soil test done, as I am positive there is a need for lime. Just trying to get a head start on the plot.

I have begun reading through the doubletree threads and greatly appreciate that information.
Thanks again Daver
 
Thought i would update. A buddy and I got all the leaves cleared off the plot last night and seeded a mix of white and red clover. Taking all the leaves off the plot left a great deal of bare dirt exposed so i should have good seed to soil contact. Got some soil from several different places to send in for a test. I am hoping with the freezing/thawing forecast the seed will work in nicely.

Thank you to everyone who provided insight on this project. I also will say Paul's thread makes for excellent reading. I will continue to update as my project progresses. Also planning a couple more small plots for later this spring.
 
marshall said:
Thought i would update. A buddy and I got all the leaves cleared off the plot last night and seeded a mix of white and red clover. Taking all the leaves off the plot left a great deal of bare dirt exposed so i should have good seed to soil contact. Got some soil from several different places to send in for a test. I am hoping with the freezing/thawing forecast the seed will work in nicely.

Thank you to everyone who provided insight on this project. I also will say Paul's thread makes for excellent reading. I will continue to update as my project progresses. Also planning a couple more small plots for later this spring.
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I think you will be pleased with how this works out for you, it sounds like your timing was great and the execution too. Be sure to post pics, and lessons learned, at some point in the future.

Oh, one other thing...you can definitely get clover going in the spring too...but you are almost always going to have more of a battle with weeds on spring started plot. Just be prepared to attack them early and often and you should be fine.
 
With the weeds, what chemical can i use to spray? I have an ATV sprayer so that won't be an issue.

I am also assuming that mowing will help once things start to pop up. I am hoping the clover outgrows everything else but am going to monitor very closely.

Thanks again
 
marshall said:
With the weeds, what chemical can i use to spray? I have an ATV sprayer so that won't be an issue.

I am also assuming that mowing will help once things start to pop up. I am hoping the clover outgrows everything else but am going to monitor very closely.

Thanks again
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Clethodim will kill unwanted grasses in your clover plot and I have used that from time to time with good success. But it will not kill many of the non-grass weeds...I normally control weeds just by mowing just over the clover, but low enough to whack the weeds, which are normally taller than the clover.

Depending on the size of your field, what equipment you do or don't have and how fit you are...I have even used a weed wacker to go across the top of the clover, while knocking out 90% of the taller weeds. (Nowadays I mow, weed wacking is for younger guys. :D)

It will not hurt to mow the clover some, but you do not want to scalp it too low either. Many times I have all but eliminated competing, volunteer weeds just by mowing 2 or 3 times over a couple months or so. Once your clover thickens up, the weed problem will be greatly reduced, perhaps even stymied completely...but with spring planted clover, you are likely to have to mow weeds off 2-3 times before it gets thick enough to block them out.
 
Thanks again Daver. I have access to tractor and mower so I should be able to stay on top of the weeds.

I am assuming any coop / farm service store sells clethodim? I already know for sure i will have some grasses to knock out in one corner of the plot.
 
marshall said:
Thanks again Daver. I have access to tractor and mower so I should be able to stay on top of the weeds.

I am assuming any coop / farm service store sells clethodim? I already know for sure i will have some grasses to knock out in one corner of the plot.
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A tractor with a mower is perfect, you will be able to safely set the mower height to "brush" the top of the clover and still get virtually all of the weeds then. Select is one of the brand names of the generic clethodim, I think there are others. I don't remember where I got my last gallon of that though...it may have been Tractor Supply OR I might have ordered it online through Rural King.

I don't use it often or very much at a time, a little goes a long ways in my experience. Again, I only use it to go after unwanted grasses, which I don't often have to combat because...I rarely initiate a clover plot in the spring.

Nowadays, I almost always will drill a rye/clover mix in the fall and then sometimes "sweeten" the plot with some additional frost seeded clover at about this time of the year and then I let the rye come on strong in the spring/early summer. Either let the rye off in July-ish and voila, there's your beautiful clover OR mow the rye off in June-ish, exposing the healthy clover below. If I mow rye off though, I seem to need to do a mow or two to whack the weeds back.
 
If you need it, I think you will find Rural KIng a much more economical source of Clethodim than a coop or farm chemical supply. Even with shipping I found it to be much cheaper.
 
Anybody started doing any frost seeding of clover yet in central Iowa? The warmer weather has got me thinking.....
 
mags83 said:
Anybody started doing any frost seeding of clover yet in central Iowa? The warmer weather has got me thinking.....
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Oh yeah, I broadcast some a week ago and some again this past weekend. I was mostly over-seeding existing clover fields that had some weak spots. But now is the time!
 
Lucky13 said:
Anyone ever seed clover right into burned ground?
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Yes, worked great as far as clover germination. But you will likely have to deal with killing whatever you burned off. Because those plants will rested or start growing again this spring in most cases.
 
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