Discussion in 'Dbltree's corner' started by dbltree, Jun 11, 2006.
Has anyone seeded a white clover plot in late summer WITHOUT a nurse crop and regreted it?
Plenty of rain- no problem. Lack of rain + hot- either a failure or seed will sit there to germinate. It's a bit of a gamble but not a large one that's a huge cost. In my area- clover TODAY would be a challenge with how dry it is. If water gets replenished- could do it. Your clover is going to need to be spread thick and the more time goes by- expectations for substantial growth and attraction for this fall will decrease as it will simply be smaller plants getting established. Which- if they do- will really shine come next spring.
Hopefully you all added clover in your rye mix this year. Can mow the rye this spring going forward for a nice stand of clover. If not, frost seeding is a great option for: whites, reds, alsike, & "frosty Berseem or Frosty Balansa" (which those 2 annuals - before could not be frost seeded). Cannot frost seed regular: balansa, berseem, crimson, alfalfa & few others. See very heavy in February or March.
Some of my favorities (to some extent, splitting hairs)....
WHITES: Kopu II, Alice White, Ladino (many newer clovers are modified Ladino's), Durana, etc.
RED: Depends on what you want it for..... If plow down, get the cheapest and usually can find a plow down Red (for N creation going into something like brassicas) but if want for deer to leave it - the largest leaf red with least stem material is better.
ALSIKE: a lower priced, short lived clover that's great for wetter soils (so are white clovers but Alsike is BETTER than whites on wet soils).
ANNUALS or BI-ANNUALS.... Fast growing, high N fixation, cheaper but usually higher seed rate. Great for "cover crops" as they grow quicker (not as fast as oats) & great for a plow down creating a lot of N. Deer love them as well.
*buy innoculated seed or IDEALLY innoculate yourself. Not hard to do or inquire about. Especially on a new piece of ground that hasn't been worked before. Less critical on previously farmed land.
Late summer or fall ideal, frost seeding is also great, spring planting is doable as well - I'd do oats or an annual clover if possible as companion: seeding at higher rates.
Planting with rye mix, like in picture about a week or two after planting.... You likely will NOT see much for clover that fall. It will be next spring where you notice it. See below spring or early summer picture following here, clover you didn't realize was there - IT'S THERE!
What kind of clover from welter do you recommend to frost seed? Plan on doing maybe 3-4 acres. Will probably leave some up throughout the year but majority will be tilled under for rye and turnips.
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Tilled under areas id do something like berseem or balansa & add reds & one white if u wanted. This is lower cost, meant for tilling in, deer love it and it fixes N.
The part u will KEEP in clover: I’d do: berseem or balansa + a big leafy red + my main focus would be 2 whites, such as: kopu II, Alice white, ladino, durana, etc. could also throw in a little Alsike into mixes.
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I assume everyone is starting their frost seeding now? Question I do have is Welters told me 4-5lbs./acre for the Alice White. That sound about right? I read in this post 10 lbs./acre ? Is that for the red clover because I did see different amounts for the red and white rates by Welters. Why is that? Thanks in advance.
I usually do closer to the 10#/acre for white clover. Thought I remember someone saying you can't really seed clover too heavy. Seed cost isn't that much unless you are doing a really big plot.
White CAN be seeded lighter because it grows with stolons (basically it sends shoots out and makes a carpet) so it spreads & dominates - thus needing lighter rates.
Reds do not do this and grow taller with more stem so they need a higher seed rate. (Same with alfalfa for example)
Unlike N eaters which need to carefully seeded at correct rate or light.... Clovers can be much thicker without issue or very few. I like going heavier.... little more $ (minor) but it does a great job smothering weeds and not allowing as many weeds to break through. This would be beneficial with frost seeding or spring if you are wanting new plants to have best shot at dominating the difficult spring/summer weeds.
Well was going to frost seed today. With 5-8 inches of snow a possibility in NE Iowa do I wait or go for it? May be another couple weeks otherwise.
GO!!! Getter done!
On my way!!
I was going to do about an acre of Alice White this weekend, but the plot sits predominantly on the north side of a timbered ridge, and when I drove down yesterday to check snow cover found the entire plot still has 6-8 inches of snow. I don't mind a little snow cover when I frost seed but I'd prefer to see something that gets closer to 50-75% bare ground showing, and we're definitely a ways from that in this particular location.
Done for now. Fresh powder coming though 5 - 8. Will not last long, I was unsure if it did sit on it to long that the seed would not be any good.
Got an acre frost seeded this weekend, in SE Iowa...should be purrfect!!
Did the same here Daver! Frost seeded white clover burn lines along the new CRP we drilled last fall. Looking forward to easy burning in the future!
Got an acre done here too. The deer did a good job eating cereal grains mix down to bare ground for me
Did some frost seeding last week along a fence that was pushed back late last summer. It will get some shade but I figured seed is cheap and something in there is better than nothing.
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Got a lot of hidey-hole clover plots in ahead of the rain. Have to keep up on PH in these areas surrounded by cedars and trees, but they are HIGHLY productive, especially during the seeking phase of the rut. Clover is the best bet in these partially shaded areas in my opinion.
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Looks nice, Frost seeded up here yesterday.
Then the snow hit
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