Creating a doe factory

Discussion in 'Whitetail Management' started by hillrunner, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. hillrunner

    hillrunner PMA Member

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    I thought this was a good video. I've never heard of the guy before but he seems fairly knowledgeable.
    Talks about not making your property too attractive during the summer months to avoid it becoming a doe factory. He says the mature bucks will not tolerate the social pressure created by too many does outside of the rut.
    I've heard many people say over the years that bucks don't like there property outside of the rut, all they have is does. I even remember Dbltree making a comment about not having many bucks around outside of the rut. I wonder how often that is caused by the farm being too attractive to does during fawning?
    His main solution seems to be skipping the summer plots like beans, alfalfa, clover etc. Obviously hunting the does heavily is an option but I worry about the hunting pressure that creates. I would assume that fencing summer plots off would work as well.
    I can see some merit in what he is saying but I'm not completely sold either. Main reason being that pretty much everyone in Iowa is surrounded by ag fields, that seems like it would throw a wrench in the whole idea. Thought provoking video either way.
     
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  3. sirrloin

    sirrloin PMA Member

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    Had the same issue last year. Bucks every 5 minutes during the rut but once cold weather hit I had maybe a couple does. I had no food...guy across the road half a mile away had over 100+ deer on his several plots that stayed there. I think once the cold hits it comes down to where they can find food plain and simple. If you have both cover and food you're golden.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
  4. Lucky 13

    Lucky 13 New Member

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    I have been following this guy for a couple of years. I took his advice about eliminating summer food plots a few years back and I feel it has paid off for me. I also am surrounded by ag fields that feed the deer better than I could in the summer. Now I just plant a mix of soybeans, peas and oats in mid july and then overseed with rye around labor day. When the ag fields go brown and get harvested, my green plots get hammered. I go from very little deer usage on my land to an explosion of deer including many mature bucks from mid October thru spring green up.

    A night/day difference from just a couple years ago.
     
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  5. Copenhagen Tob

    Copenhagen Tob PMA Member

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    I've always thought the does take over the most nutritious food, the bucks will yield to the mama's and the next generation, hence if you're property is full of summer bucks , you do not have the best feed available at the time
     
  6. HawkeyeStateHogs

    HawkeyeStateHogs Member

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    I don't think having a doe factory is a bad thing on smaller properties. Mature bucks won't tolerate human activity during the summer like does will. Does will hang around as long as you're not right in their business, then come late October and November the bucks show up. I'd prefer that to never stepping foot on a property all spring and summer for fear of running off the bucks.
     
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  7. Hardwood11

    Hardwood11 Well-Known Member

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    I think what he is saying is pretty accurate in most cases, not all. I have a farm in MN that is full of food right now and the does and fawns are everywhere, saw 17 last evening ...yes we are bow hunting in MN. So far just a couple of bucks in that area. I think it will be late October before they move in.
     
  8. JOSHBRNDT

    JOSHBRNDT Active Member

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    I've watched Jeff's video's for about 2 years now. I would agree with him about the doe farm. I planted beans this year and was absolutely loaded up with does, so bad they ate 4 acres of food down to the dirt. I tilled it under and the majority of the does disappeared and had a few good bucks show up. I've now gone in and planted turnips, radish and rape on these plots. Even though there are some does coming in the majority of the does are on the neighbors beans (ag Field) and the bigger bucks are still around.
     
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  9. MuddyHntr

    MuddyHntr Active Member

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    Im a big fan of Jeff and enjoy his videos. I agree with mostly everything that he has videos on besides a few things and minor details of others.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
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  10. loneranger

    loneranger Well-Known Member

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    If you hunt only Nov nothing wrong with established does. The bucks come for dates with your does!
     
  11. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Lots of variables here & pretty complicated subject dependent on some many different variables IMO. Here’s my 2 cents in really short & totally off Top of head what I agree with & don’t....

    Way too many does is an issue. They are nasty, mean, homebodies & in high numbers- SOME bucks avoid em during all but rut. Some bucks are shy, recluse or less dominant. Other bucks are more aggressive, nasty themselves & they will dominate any area they find ideal. IMO. I agree where he’s coming from here on many levels though.
    Too many does deplete forage, constant disturbance, social stress, territorial issues, etc.
    IMO, bottom line, I think there’s a better way VS limiting summer attractiveness. Especially in Iowa/midwest farm country.....
    1) keep Deer #’s in check so social stress (from very high deer #’s).
    2) Keep ratios in check. For example, in Midwest if u shoot a pile of bucks every year and ain’t shot any does and that’s a predominant result on neighbors farms as well- u gonna be out of whack & buck hunting in general will clearly deteriorate.
    3) create lots more bedding areas. Variety of ways here. Even 100-160 acres, Folks could literally say “I have 3-4 premium bedding areas that are sought after” & turn that into 10-25 Absolutely can be done. More room for does & bucks so they ain’t fighting for turf & premium security. Having secluded, undisturbed, premium cover & safe bedding areas - mature dominant bucks will be there, period.
    4) vast varieties of food. Natural browse maxed out (which is TONS of food per acre). In addition to variety of plots & crops This creates ample nutrition of course but it keeps the deer scattered and moving to all parts of the farm. Keeps them well fed all year. (I just disagree with lacking summer food). IMO- if u have awesome browse- u will have summer deer & u would be crazy to NOT have great natural browse. If u have beans and corn - u also will overall be better off & u will also have lots of summer deer. Almost can’t be avoided in Midwest. Adding clovers, alfalfa & summer food is only a mistake if ur area is way too overloaded with deer/does to begin with and ratio is out of whack. It’s only an issue if u have just a few bedding areas. All of this has other solutions to fix this vs trying to make summer unattractive. Ratio in check, pop in check, tons food/browse & varieties of premium bedding is better scenario IMO

    On a small scale or smaller farms, which video is - I do agree on many levels. I don’t want 40 acres with a group of 50 does on one food source & 2-3 great beddding areas. I would want the best fall food & late season food as more a priority. Agree. This is a complex issue... in Midwest & parcels over many 100 acres - not nearly as Simple or desirable way to achieve goals. Agree with many of the points though, especially on small parcels. Very good on many levels. Pretty deep rabbit hole here and I’ll stop rambling ;). Good vid & a lot of this or reasons for it - I do agree with.
     
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  12. Iowa_Buckeye

    Iowa_Buckeye Member

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    I’ve seen two of his videos now. And agree with about 10% of what he said.
     
  13. Wi transplant

    Wi transplant PMA Member

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    I agree with some of jeffs ideas and with lots of the ideas on this sight! I feel the best thing a person can do is an honest assesment of your farm ! Look at it for what it is ! Not what you want it to be!! Sometimes the best thing is have one or a couple of your habitat buddies take a look with you at your place and give honest opinions on it! And tear it apart!! Where are you lacking? To much of another? Access ? Food .cover? Ect. Sometimes its a real eye opener !!! Start with the lowest hole in the bucket and build from there! And too many does anytime is not good!!

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  14. 6Popes1Booner

    6Popes1Booner Member

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    I don't know. I hardly ever shoot any does and that may be wrong.
    I always want them around for the rut.
    Is this thinking wrong?
     
  15. Daver

    Daver PMA Member

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    I would say that it depends. :) I strive for some sense of balance between does and bucks on my place and will take does accordingly. Years ago I hunted places where I think the ratio of does to bucks was 10 to 1, and maybe worse in some cases. That seemed off to me and I have always tried to keep the does in check. I, or someone hunting with me, usually shoot a few early in the bow season and then a few more late in the gun season.
     
  16. 6Popes1Booner

    6Popes1Booner Member

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    I do know that I don't have any fawns around. I haven't had 1 fawn pic and I've been running cams since spring. Too many yotes.
     
  17. Daver

    Daver PMA Member

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    Bobcats? For years and years, I have seen no shortage of fawns even in areas with a strong coyote population. Once Bobcats were common, I find more dead fawn carcasses than ever and see fewer fawns in the fall.

    Surely a coyote will take whatever fawn it can get, but I suspect Bobcats are more of a problem.
     
  18. Tim Hull

    Tim Hull PMA Member

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    In the City of Muscatine since 2005, we have had the Urban Management Zone. So each year the number of does killed to bucks is at least 10 to 1. Last year, only 4 bucks were reported killed and more than 50 does. It has been like this for 15 years and I still see way more does than bucks.
     
  19. 6Popes1Booner

    6Popes1Booner Member

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    I don't think Bobcats.
    I have never seen any or pics.
     
  20. Lucky 13

    Lucky 13 New Member

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    6Popes-
    Here is my way of thinking about a lot of does and hunting the rut.
    ***Of course this is just particular to my property and my local herd and my unique goals**** I only have 80 acres and I have Large ag fields, CRP and some old growth timber surrounding me.

    Yep the does do bring in the bucks during that short window of the overall hunting season. However, my goal is to keep as many bucks on my land during daylight hours during the entire hunting season. This way my neighbors don't kill my hit list bucks nor do they prevent young bucks from advancing in age class by shooting them too young. That way I have a steady supply of mature bucks every year. Meantime, my neighbors who hunt less than a 1/4 mile from me complain every year that they never see a mature buck during hunting season. They see them all summer but they seem to "disappear" by October. They blame poachers or say the bucks went dormant but the reality is that they are spending much of their daytime movement on my property because I now focus on winter food and winter cover and low hunting pressure on my property.

    Rarely do I see many deer on my property from March through October. But come October, November, December my place is packed with deer.

    I did away with my clover and alfalfa food plots which reduced my spring and summer doe/fawn population down to just a couple. I only plant winter plots now. Why try to complete with the plentiful AG fields?? Let the does and fawns eat the heck out of my neighbors beans and alfalfa. But come harvest, I have the best food around...
     
  21. Wi transplant

    Wi transplant PMA Member

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    This is super interesting ! I have a experiment goung on right now i purchased my farm 2 yrs ago no food at all . 24 acres ag but fallow. 2 creek bottoms and thick hillsides . lots of bucks 1st yr few does . 3 days of second gun season last yr saw 17 different bucks with only 5 does !! Had only brassica plots (late season plot) this yr i have 2 clover plots a 3 acre bean plot overseeded with rye and brassicas 2 acres of brassicas and just put in 6 acres of alphalfa on east side of my north 40 so it will be intersting to watch what and if changes occur? Im alittle concernd because the center ridge of the north forty is my best mature buck bedding. Spots ! Will be interested if does move in close to alphalfa and (drive out) the mature bucks ? I will keep everyone updated! Should be intetesting ! Fyi i have lots of bedfing on the farm so we will see if they move or leave!

    Sent from my RS501 using Tapatalk
     

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