CWD Podcast

Discussion in 'Iowa Whitetail Conference' started by bigbuckhunter88, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. bigbuckhunter88

    bigbuckhunter88 PMA Member

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    Not a whole lot of new information but some things I honestly hadn't thought about in reference to the prions being transferred to plants that humans consume. There are many times I wish I could ask this guy a question but I feel I've gained more from this podcast than reading any article. I definitely don't completely agree with everything said but figured I'd make the ones who are interested aware. Not sure how to post a link but anyone who listens to podcasts it's The Joe Rogan Experience #1154 with Doug Duren and Bryan Richards
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
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  3. OOBoneCollector

    OOBoneCollector Member

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    Another good one was done by Drury's 100% Wild Podcast. I sure learned a lot! I will have to listen to Joe Rogan's and see if they say anything else more on it.

    Podcast: Chronic Wasting Disease Roundtable with Dr. Barb Keller and Jason Sumners and Dr. Grant Woods.
    Youtube Link:
     
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  4. 4DABUCKS

    4DABUCKS PMA Member

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    Thanks for sharing! Lots of info that I didn't know or questioned before.
     
  5. bigbuckhunter88

    bigbuckhunter88 PMA Member

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    I will add when I made the post I had pry 40 minutes left and there is some "the sky is falling" towards the end which is common for Rogan. Still wish he would have had the scientist and someone who opposed his views. Duren used to be a pretty good deer manager and it seems like having it present on his farms has definitely changed his tune.
     
  6. mplane72

    mplane72 Active Member

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    Wish more would listen. Though there's a lot of info there many here won't like to hear.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  7. loneranger

    loneranger Active Member

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    Bottom line se can only delay the inevitable to future generations. I always wonder,,where thr heck did this thing come from? That was not discussed. Maybe no answer?
     
  8. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Little info on "where it came from". Poses a few more questions to the DNR & Biologists....
    1) should there be an "extremely aggressive" crow season? We had deer sharp shooters. We have deer slaughter & eradication zones.... Read below & would it make as much sense to go after crows as much as we go after killing MORE deer?
    2) Should we be outlawing the gutting of deer in the field? Below would strongly suggest this!!!
    Both of above likely won't happen BUT if we are to be taking action "Based on evidence".... There is as much evidence on these 2 things as there is to kill more deer because of CWD. All of which, as of the research/data/evidence NOW, I don't think ANY will make a bit of difference BUT think through it. Aside from: A CURE or Natural resistant strains of deer proliferating (mother nature has a way there to work this out & that's been shown with resistant strains) - there is no other truly solid cure & solution based on any evidence I've seen yet.

    "The origin and mode of transmission of the prions causing CWD is unknown, but recent research indicates that prions can be excreted by deer and elk, and are transmitted by eating grass growing in contaminated soil. Animals born in captivity and those born in the wild have been affected with the disease. Based on epidemiology, transmission of CWD is thought to be lateral (from animal to animal). Maternal transmission may occur, although it appears to be relatively unimportant in maintaining epidemics. An infected deer's saliva is able to spread the CWD prions. Exposure between animals is associated with sharing food and water sources contaminated with CWD prions shed by diseased deer.

    The disease was first identified in 1967 in a closed herd of captive mule deer in contiguous portions of northeastern Colorado. In 1980, the disease was determined to be a TSE. It was first identified in wild elk and mules in 1981 in Colorado and Wyoming, and in farmed elk in 1997

    Once in the environment, CWD prions may remain infectious for many years. Thus, decomposition of diseased carcasses, infected "gut piles" from hunters who field dress their cervid harvests, and the urine, saliva, feces, and antler velvet of infected individuals that are deposited in the environment, all have the potential to create infectious environmental reservoirs of CWD

    One avian scavenger, the American crow, was recently evaluated as a potential vector for CWD. As CWD prions remain viable after passing through the bird's digestive tract, crows represent a possible mechanism for the creation of environmental reservoirs of CWD. Additionally, the crows' extensive geographic range presents ample opportunities for them to come in contact with CWD. This, coupled with the population density and longevity of communal roosting sites in both urban and rural locations, suggests that the fecal deposits at roosting sites may represent a CWD environmental reservoir"
     
  9. bigbuckhunter88

    bigbuckhunter88 PMA Member

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    I guess my biggest gripe is if they want to slaughter deer then they better have plans in place for where the carcasses and organs are going. Someplace where scavengers can't get to them and people aren't leaving them in the woods or throwing them in ditches.
     
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  10. loneranger

    loneranger Active Member

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    From what i have read mad cow came from feeding animal protein to cattle. An unatural food for herbivores. Also readin it got into deer the same way. Captive herds. Maybe just rumors from penned deer haters but wouldn’t be surprised. Man is always screwing with nature. This thing seems unatural.
     
  11. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Mad cow is very similar to cwd. prion based disease. In cattle- it can be transmitted to humans. Usually when eating the brain, spine & so on (I don’t do this ;) ). Cwd - from what I’ve read- does not transmit but I suspect that’s where some “debate” lies. Probably the boiled down point FLOUNDER tries to make. I guess i will stop eating deer brains to be safe. ;).
     
  12. Ishi

    Ishi PMA Member

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    Agreed :) I try not to make eating head cheese a habit
     
  13. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    I listed to whole podcast. It’s very good. They did a nice job. They have HUGE gaping holes in their argument though. If u really pay attention- it’s VERY VERY FAR from “settled science”. They run circles where they contradict themselves on a HOST of issues. Long long story. You can hear for yourself.


    Here’s bottom line I still came back to...... kill every single deer - it will come back & you can not eliminate the prion until there’s a cure!!! They talked about the “fairy tale” action plan - where in Norway they killed every reindeer in an area. Would not let more back for FIVE YEARS. Problem is: that prion will in fact be there in 5 years!!!! They did acknoledge crows & coyotes or WHATEVER can move it too.

    One moment it’s “do xyz” and the next it’s “there’s nothing shown to solve this”.

    Here’s my bottom line...... the experts do not know what to do or where to go here. KILL EVERYTHING, do not allow any gutting of deer & waste to be out, do not let crows move it & do not move Deer period. This all must take place while a massive effort is made to KILL EVERY SINGLE DEER. With the logic at hand, any less will not stop this. May slow it but will not stop it. Here’s how I personally think the science is on this.... this is VERY MUCH like AIDS in 80’s.... incubation period. Once we knew about it- everyone was flipping out. Massive measures & extremes we know now are non-issues. No cure & maybe never will be. In ‘80’s they were just no where near understanding this. Did it wipe out mankind? NO. Will it? NO. Even without a cure: is it a “Sky is falling” & half the people u know dying from AIDS? NO. Do we have all the answers on AIDS? NO.

    There’s the point of “it’s possible humans could get it.” Tiny tiny tiny chance & not shown to so far. & that would likely be if we ate the brains, spine & digestive Tract. Fairly easy to rule that one out for myself. ;).

    Threat to deer: last part of equation...... let’s pretend all deer get this everywhere.... they say some deer won’t show symptoms or never do. Some will die. Some will die as they get older. Most wont die from CWD vs all other activities: hunting, predators, cars, etc. would anyone know the difference if u didn’t pay close attention to why or how a deer died? Probably not.

    IMO- we are a LONG WAYS out from knowing what is right or wrong here. We do know there’s no cure as of now. That’s about it. We’ve been through a million “oh my gosh!! We are doomed” a million times & every living thing has a gazillion things that kill it. Could this possibly be yet one more thing to add to the million things that harm animals or humans or anything? Possibly. Interesting podcast & for sure a good one to listen to. Critical thinking is needed as many of their so-called-answers do run in circles & contradict themselves if u listen carefully. It is a very interesting & well thought out & explained listen though.
     
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  14. bigbuckhunter88

    bigbuckhunter88 PMA Member

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    Definitely agree. Wish they had someone on who could raise those questions to hear their input. I also wondered when they mentioned Norway how that was even relevant to deer. How are you going to kill every deer in an area and keep others out? Impossible
     
  15. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    I don’t agree with everything here either. But- here was other side & what sparked “outrage” by Rogans guests.... before they came on, Nugent was talking against cwd & had some examples why he felt it was garbage. I found the clip they were talking about with nugent on cwd, rogans show a while ago...

     
  16. bigbuckhunter88

    bigbuckhunter88 PMA Member

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    Yup listened to that one as well. The quote that got everyone fired up was that "winter kills more deer than CWD".
     
  17. hotshott2289

    hotshott2289 Active Member

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    Nugent is a disease
     
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  18. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    I listened to the drury one. Well done as well.
    Here’s a couple points....
    “A lot of people don’t trust the Dnr & legislature because of past laws, management & things they have done”. DING DING DING.....

    How many examples can we point to where DNR or legislatures of any state have done things either: 1) with special interests in Mind. 2) horrible results for management of the resource. 3) degrades Hunting 4) KNEE JERK REACTIONS to a host of issues - whether population, other diseases, special interest urgent requests, whatever- we’ve seen government in general make reactions to things that have sometimes made problems worse. Hunting or general government & laws. 5) the sky is falling so we must do “xyz”. We hear this stuff OFTEN, whether it’s global warming, Ebola, hole in ozone layer, world overpopulation/starvation, tuberculosis, acid rain or whatever. We hear this stuff OFTEN.

    So- on the drury one.... one of the guys (not knocking him or saying he doesn’t believe it) says “this could likely be the extinction of whitetail deer in our lifetime”. Earlier they said some deer go years without dying from it and some populations have 20-30% infection rate (or something like that). I just think some folks hear that and go “here we go again!” “Just like if we keep with global warming oceans will rise & we all will be under water.”

    The skepticism is well founded & with all these “it could” “possibly” “our best guess”, “we don’t have a cure BUT a possible plan of attack should be...”. “We can’t say for certain”, “true, we can’t stop it BUT this will help things, most likely”..... there’s so much up in the air and not solved or understood. I am not an expert. I do not have a solution. I admittedly believe the “experts” are a long way out from knowing how to react (sorry - most their ideas are “feel good” items at best which really won’t solve a thing long term). Is it the catastrophic situation they say? I don’t know. I don’t think so but that’s just me. We for sure don’t get to hear the other point of view & I absolutely know it exists. Much like “global warming”.... “all scientists agree”.... NO, no they don’t. The problem is: the global warming folks will do all they can to destroy and discredit anyone who disagrees with them and they sure don’t put them on a platform to debate it. I don’t think a lot of these cwd folks would want to hear from “opposing views” & personally, some that I know don’t want to be involved because of what they feel is all the crap and beatings they will take by speaking up. There’s other experts with other points of view & I hope we do hear both sides and I do hope we solve this in the end. I think any sides of this are for Research to better understand this & it would be fantastic if we did have a cure.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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  19. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    3 versions of an opposing view. They kinda set this up as a “rebuttal” to the drury video. They do have a bias & anyone needs to understand this. They also did a good job (like I’ve said about previous above podcasts) & I’m not saying I agree with everything here. I listened to this opposing view & they made some good points as well.

    This second video is also very interesting & James Kroll puts out evidence on many examples that’s exact opposite of some of previous claims.






    3rd one.... recorded yesterday....
     
  20. Wapsi Tree

    Wapsi Tree PMA Member

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    I'm sensing you're not a believer in global warming or climate change or whatever they decide to scare us with today. :) If you understand some very basic laws of thermodynamics, you'll quickly see that it is not possible for CO2 to warm the planet. But the politicians have infiltrated an entire generation and our kids are going through school learning this crap is a fact. Why? Because there are plenty of dirtbag politicians and corporations in bed together and getting filthy rich off this hoax...which brings me to my question....

    IF this CWD thing is just a big scare, and there is no danger of it, or from it, who stands to benefit? Who's pockets could potentially be greased? What motivation would anyone have for spreading false information?

    This disease has been around for 50 years, but not one human has been infected with CWD! Yet, they say we could all die if we eat an infected deer. Something stinks.
     
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  21. loneranger

    loneranger Active Member

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    Don't know about this disease? But on the topic of the DNR over reacting. I was living up in N-MI when they had the BIG TB scare. Officials said all cattle would be wiped out. Even though there is little cattle ranching up there. TB was an imminent Threat to all wildlife as well as humans. Liberal doe tags were given out, even in areas that biologists said had low deer numbers and previously were not giving them out. Biologist told me it was crap but he had orders from on High. Got so you would sit for days without seeing an animal. Deer numbers taken way down. Funds issued for research. TB has been around up there for many years. News paper articles about it from the 1950s I saw. No BIG epidemic
     
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