dbltree
Super Moderator
Re: Soil samples
Quote:
I know I need to lime some areas on my property and I would like to do it while the ground is frozen. Can I take soil samples effectively now while the ground is frozen? Would I get invalid results if I pried some chunks of dirt off of the surface v. digging 8 inches deep?
This is a case of "do as I say...not as I do" ...cause I just went out and "chiseled" my soil samples out
Actually it was more like chipped with a spud...
The correct way is to shave off soil from the side (imagine a hole already there)...but I chipped and scraped away until I got enough from several spots.
I took mine into my fertilizer dealer who does them for free but it still takes about 2 weeks.
If you wait until it thaws out (suppose to hit -6 over the weekend )it could be spring.
The lime spreaders like to get it put on when the ground is frozen...and they aren't busy with anything else.
So...the lessor of two evils would be to try to get some kind of samples in the near future.
I wouldn't say it would be invalid but perhaps not as accurate, more so for testing nitrogen levels then PH though.
You can send them in thru the nearest ISU extension office, fertilizer dealer or mail it in to any number of places such as the foodplot seed dealers for about 10 bucks.
Here's a link on taking soil samples...when its NOT froze hard as a rock
ISU Extension Service Soil Testing
Alternative Soil Testing Laboratories
Soil Fertility Links
Spring Soil Testing Tips
Soil Sampling
Correct Soil Testing
More Soil Sampling
Taking Soil Test Samples
Proper soil sampling
Soil Testing for Home Lawns, Gardens, and Wildlife Food Plots
This is just general fertilizer facts and information that I posted in the brassica thread to answer the qestion "what is triple 19". Understanding more about commercial fertilizer and how we can replace all or part from natural crop rotations is important as prices rise.
Triple 19 is just a fertilizer combination of NITROGEN, POTASSIUM, AND PHOSPHORUS The "19"just means there is 19#'s in every 100#'s or 19%. There are common fertlizer mixes such as 6-24-24, 12-12-12, 19-19-19 46-0-0 etc. etc.
All the "numbers" tell you is how much of each of the 3 main elements are in a bag of fertilizer. If you buy it in bulk from an ag supply source, they can mix any combination your require. This is why we take soil tests so we know what nutrients our soils may be lacking and what might be required for the crop we'll be growing.
Sometimes you can buy fertilizers on sale at Wal-Mart, Menards, TSC and others...fertilizer is fertilizer as long as you understand what is in it.
DO NOT apply lawn fertilize containing week killers over the top of brassicas...it contains 2-4D and will kill them. Mix it in the soil and it won't be a problem. (cheaper to buy it without weedkiller however...)
Triple 19 is a good all around mix of equal amounts of N-P-K but brassicas prefer plenty of nitrogen so that's where the "300#'s" comes in. Using 300 pounds will give you 57 pounds of each element. You could get away with a 100#'s of 46-0-0 urea which is just nitrogen and does not contain the P and K elements.
at $20-25 a 50# bag, 300#'s could easily run $120-150 per acre which makes 15 bucks worth of red clover seed seem like a pretty darn good deal...huh?
Here are some links to help you understand a little more about fertilizer and what the "numbers" mean.
Nutrient Science
NITROGEN, POTASSIUM, AND PHOSPHORUS
Fertilizer
Fertilizer use and markets
Nutrient Cycling & Maintaining Soil Fertility
Fertility Management in Organic Crop Systems
soil test interpretation guide
Interpreting Soil Test Results
What is soil
Guide to soil testing
Soil Test Results: What Do They Mean?
Soil Fertility Management
Mind Your P's and K's
Some Facts on Potash
Understanding potash
You Can't Afford Not to Lime
Understanding fertlizers
Fertilizer Reckoning for the Mathematically Challenged
Bagged Fertilizer Labeling Requirements
Glossary of Terms
Quote:
I know I need to lime some areas on my property and I would like to do it while the ground is frozen. Can I take soil samples effectively now while the ground is frozen? Would I get invalid results if I pried some chunks of dirt off of the surface v. digging 8 inches deep?
This is a case of "do as I say...not as I do" ...cause I just went out and "chiseled" my soil samples out
Actually it was more like chipped with a spud...
The correct way is to shave off soil from the side (imagine a hole already there)...but I chipped and scraped away until I got enough from several spots.
I took mine into my fertilizer dealer who does them for free but it still takes about 2 weeks.
If you wait until it thaws out (suppose to hit -6 over the weekend )it could be spring.
The lime spreaders like to get it put on when the ground is frozen...and they aren't busy with anything else.
So...the lessor of two evils would be to try to get some kind of samples in the near future.
I wouldn't say it would be invalid but perhaps not as accurate, more so for testing nitrogen levels then PH though.
You can send them in thru the nearest ISU extension office, fertilizer dealer or mail it in to any number of places such as the foodplot seed dealers for about 10 bucks.
Here's a link on taking soil samples...when its NOT froze hard as a rock
ISU Extension Service Soil Testing
Alternative Soil Testing Laboratories
Soil Fertility Links
Spring Soil Testing Tips
Soil Sampling
Correct Soil Testing
More Soil Sampling
Taking Soil Test Samples
Proper soil sampling
Soil Testing for Home Lawns, Gardens, and Wildlife Food Plots
This is just general fertilizer facts and information that I posted in the brassica thread to answer the qestion "what is triple 19". Understanding more about commercial fertilizer and how we can replace all or part from natural crop rotations is important as prices rise.
Triple 19 is just a fertilizer combination of NITROGEN, POTASSIUM, AND PHOSPHORUS The "19"just means there is 19#'s in every 100#'s or 19%. There are common fertlizer mixes such as 6-24-24, 12-12-12, 19-19-19 46-0-0 etc. etc.
All the "numbers" tell you is how much of each of the 3 main elements are in a bag of fertilizer. If you buy it in bulk from an ag supply source, they can mix any combination your require. This is why we take soil tests so we know what nutrients our soils may be lacking and what might be required for the crop we'll be growing.
Sometimes you can buy fertilizers on sale at Wal-Mart, Menards, TSC and others...fertilizer is fertilizer as long as you understand what is in it.
DO NOT apply lawn fertilize containing week killers over the top of brassicas...it contains 2-4D and will kill them. Mix it in the soil and it won't be a problem. (cheaper to buy it without weedkiller however...)
Triple 19 is a good all around mix of equal amounts of N-P-K but brassicas prefer plenty of nitrogen so that's where the "300#'s" comes in. Using 300 pounds will give you 57 pounds of each element. You could get away with a 100#'s of 46-0-0 urea which is just nitrogen and does not contain the P and K elements.
at $20-25 a 50# bag, 300#'s could easily run $120-150 per acre which makes 15 bucks worth of red clover seed seem like a pretty darn good deal...huh?
Here are some links to help you understand a little more about fertilizer and what the "numbers" mean.
Nutrient Science
NITROGEN, POTASSIUM, AND PHOSPHORUS
Fertilizer
Fertilizer use and markets
Nutrient Cycling & Maintaining Soil Fertility
Fertility Management in Organic Crop Systems
soil test interpretation guide
Interpreting Soil Test Results
What is soil
Guide to soil testing
Soil Test Results: What Do They Mean?
Soil Fertility Management
Mind Your P's and K's
Some Facts on Potash
Understanding potash
You Can't Afford Not to Lime
Understanding fertlizers
Fertilizer Reckoning for the Mathematically Challenged
Bagged Fertilizer Labeling Requirements
Glossary of Terms
Last edited:
dbltree
Super Moderator
Re: Soil samples
It's always best to till lime in but in many cases such as an existing hayfield or no-till cropping systems...it's not going to happen.
You need to put on the soil sample that tillage will only be 2-3" if it won't be tilled.
Here's some more links on the subject:
Read the bottom last part of this...
Lime on CRP ground
This article shows the importance of putting lime on as much as a year ahead of time if at possible!
Apply lime 12 months before seeding
Soybeans need lime too You Can't Afford Not to Lime
Just don't freak out because your going to frost seed clover and your lime hasn't been on for a year.
Unless your PH is extremely low...the clover will still grow, it's just not going to do as well.
I know I sound like a broken record...but planning is the key. (not talking to Daver here...but everyone who is reading this and wondering what to do)
Sometimes it's best not to be in a big rush.
Here's an example...
Apply lime as needed now
Till it in late spring and plant buckwheat.
Till that under in late summer and plant oats and clover
or
plant rye or wheat in late summer/early fall and frost seed clover next winter.
The lime gets incorporated and has time to work.
Think ahead....
It's always best to till lime in but in many cases such as an existing hayfield or no-till cropping systems...it's not going to happen.
You need to put on the soil sample that tillage will only be 2-3" if it won't be tilled.
Here's some more links on the subject:
Read the bottom last part of this...
Lime on CRP ground
This article shows the importance of putting lime on as much as a year ahead of time if at possible!
Apply lime 12 months before seeding
Soybeans need lime too You Can't Afford Not to Lime
Just don't freak out because your going to frost seed clover and your lime hasn't been on for a year.
Unless your PH is extremely low...the clover will still grow, it's just not going to do as well.
I know I sound like a broken record...but planning is the key. (not talking to Daver here...but everyone who is reading this and wondering what to do)
Sometimes it's best not to be in a big rush.
Here's an example...
Apply lime as needed now
Till it in late spring and plant buckwheat.
Till that under in late summer and plant oats and clover
or
plant rye or wheat in late summer/early fall and frost seed clover next winter.
The lime gets incorporated and has time to work.
Think ahead....
Last edited:
nannyslayer
New Member
Re: Soil samples
Yes you can get a sample while the ground is frozen. We (company I work for) have been taking samples for the last two weeks. We take a cordless drill with a 2" drill bit that will get about a foot in the ground. Drill your hole and then do what dbltree said and scrape the edges to about 7 to 8" down. Also if you are just looking for a ph reading, you only need to go down about 2-3 inches, which is a sub-soil reading. The 7-8 inch sample is a P&K reading. It seems to be pretty acurate, but it is a pain in the butt. The reason everyone wants to spread lime while the ground is frozen is due to compaction in no-till and not leaving any tracks. When you put 15 to 16 ton of ag lime on a 26000 lb machine, it does have some compaction issues.
Also you may consider pell lime. Ag lime takes about a year to really take affect, pell lime will work the year it is applied, but will not last like ag lime (ag lime will keep ph up for around 4 to 5 years.) I don't know how big of an area you are trying to spread, but if your ph is below 5.4, it will call for about 3 1/2 tons to the acre. Annaully, the ground will only utilize about 2 ton to the acre. And for the queston for run-off, it really doesn't effect lime at all. Like wad.wan. said, it goes into the soil very slow and will not usually run off unless you are in a highly eroidable area. We have been spreading lime and P&K pretty steady for the last 3-4 weeks. Hope this helps, I know dbltree has alot of knowledge and some great info on what you are looking for.
Yes you can get a sample while the ground is frozen. We (company I work for) have been taking samples for the last two weeks. We take a cordless drill with a 2" drill bit that will get about a foot in the ground. Drill your hole and then do what dbltree said and scrape the edges to about 7 to 8" down. Also if you are just looking for a ph reading, you only need to go down about 2-3 inches, which is a sub-soil reading. The 7-8 inch sample is a P&K reading. It seems to be pretty acurate, but it is a pain in the butt. The reason everyone wants to spread lime while the ground is frozen is due to compaction in no-till and not leaving any tracks. When you put 15 to 16 ton of ag lime on a 26000 lb machine, it does have some compaction issues.
Also you may consider pell lime. Ag lime takes about a year to really take affect, pell lime will work the year it is applied, but will not last like ag lime (ag lime will keep ph up for around 4 to 5 years.) I don't know how big of an area you are trying to spread, but if your ph is below 5.4, it will call for about 3 1/2 tons to the acre. Annaully, the ground will only utilize about 2 ton to the acre. And for the queston for run-off, it really doesn't effect lime at all. Like wad.wan. said, it goes into the soil very slow and will not usually run off unless you are in a highly eroidable area. We have been spreading lime and P&K pretty steady for the last 3-4 weeks. Hope this helps, I know dbltree has alot of knowledge and some great info on what you are looking for.
Last edited by a moderator:
dbltree
Super Moderator
Re: Soil samples
Great idea using the cordless drill...why didn't I think of that!
TP was wondering if "size matters" when it comes to the fineness of lime...and it does make a difference...
Lime must pass thru screens with a 60 mesh screen being much more effective then a 10 mesh screen
Larger particles take to long to break down, so 100-200 mesh would be extremely fine and would be effective quicker.
I'm not sure what the state standard is (if there is one) but here is a link to another states requirements and descriptions of lime.
LIMING MATERIALS
There is a great article on lime in the WI magazine on about page 4-5...however don't even think about opening this if you only have dial up
Click on the page to zoom in...
Lime Time
Answers to liming questions
Great idea using the cordless drill...why didn't I think of that!
TP was wondering if "size matters" when it comes to the fineness of lime...and it does make a difference...
Lime must pass thru screens with a 60 mesh screen being much more effective then a 10 mesh screen
Larger particles take to long to break down, so 100-200 mesh would be extremely fine and would be effective quicker.
I'm not sure what the state standard is (if there is one) but here is a link to another states requirements and descriptions of lime.
LIMING MATERIALS
There is a great article on lime in the WI magazine on about page 4-5...however don't even think about opening this if you only have dial up
Click on the page to zoom in...
Lime Time
Answers to liming questions
Last edited:
dbltree
Super Moderator
Re: Web Soil Survey
NRCS now has our soil maps on line along with all kinds of neat stuff.
Check it out: Web Soil Survey
NRCS now has our soil maps on line along with all kinds of neat stuff.
Check it out: Web Soil Survey