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4 Point Disappointment

Muddyrem

Member
Just an FYI from my perspective...the NR's that post here are good guys, several of them have been posting here for many years. They may occasionally let a little frustration show, but they "know" too that Iowa is as good as it is because of the restrictive regs.

well aware daver. I’ve been a member here for over 10 years. And it never ceases to amaze me how many non residents get on an iowa forum and complain about iowa deer and Iowa residents as if we owe them something. If you love it here so much, do as so many others have done before them. Move here. If not, it’s very very hard for the average joe, who doesn’t own land that’s had 10000s of acres ripped from them solely because of non residents have any sympathy for them. I’m sure they are all great guys, but facts are facts. Their presence here has and will continue to cause the average joe in Iowa to lose access. Period.
 

Rous14

Well-Known Member
Definitely a delicate conversation here with more than a few opinions/perspectives and I appreciate most of the posts offered because they’re respectful even while not necessarily agreeing on every point (very hard to find in this country anymore). I hope mine/this one is too.
I love this site and have learned a TON from most of you guys and the last thing I want to do is burn any bridges or piss any of you off.
Full disclosure I’m a MI resident and IL landowner. While I agree with everything Skip said I also think it’s got a snowballs chance in you know where of actually being “fixed” in these other states. However even if it was I’ll just never be able to get my mind around how we as Americans could tell someone who owns land, pays taxes on it, maybe even fought in our military for the very freedom we have to own it that they can’t hunt it, fish it, mushroom hunt it, cut timber off it, farm it, or anything else that every other landowner in their county/state can do. Just not right in my opinion and I know it’s obviously not a popular one on this site so go nice on me haha!! I get being protective of the resource I really do. It would almost assuredly drive land prices up. It would probably further reduce access. I don’t buy that it would reduce the quality of the herd. But certainly there are negative consequences that would come along with it. But to have the original poster’s situation is even worse in my opinion. And yes, I know, he and everyone knows the rules up front so if we don’t like it don’t do it.
just my two cents (and that’s overpriced!). Now back to all things habitat and food plot related, much more fun topic lol!
 

Rous14

Well-Known Member
well aware daver. I’ve been a member here for over 10 years. And it never ceases to amaze me how many non residents get on an iowa forum and complain about iowa deer and Iowa residents as if we owe them something. If you love it here so much, do as so many others have done before them. Move here. If not, it’s very very hard for the average joe, who doesn’t own land that’s had 10000s of acres ripped from them solely because of non residents have any sympathy for them. I’m sure they are all great guys, but facts are facts. Their presence here has and will continue to cause the average joe in Iowa to lose access. Period.
Would never complain about the residents or the deer in Iowa and I’m certainly not owed anything. As a NR hopefully I’ve not given you or other residents that vibe and I apologize if I or other NR have. Just have a different opinion on the residency deal that’s all. And maybe a slightly different take on the access issue too. Seems like it’s become nearly impossible to find access to recreational ground in almost every state in the Midwest. Here in MI where the hunting is very average it’s extremely difficult and we certainly don’t have a bunch of NR’s to blame. Just how things have evolved. I’m not sure whether I bought a 300 ac farm in Iowa and stayed a NR or moved there how the access to it for you would be any different.
 

Rous14

Well-Known Member
Other side of coin or argument. I know this is contraversial to some but u also do make some excellent points!!!
I have buddies come down often from WI, MI, MN, etc. They know the system has ruined their own states. They flock to the tiny slice of paradise we have here. The ONLY reason they do it is because their own state is ruined. It’s all regulations & hunter stubbornness in their own states. MI, MN, MO, etc could churn out 10x the amount of big deer that iowa does. If they fixed things. Literally. Iowa is a fraction of their habitat & we churn out 5-10x the giants. How these states can’t see this is mind boggling. The best hope is the younger generation taking control in all these states that ruin their potential. As time goes by- the old timers that are unwilling to advance will be taken over by younger folks who think of management, conservation, balanced age structure & want positive regulations that will result in more opportunities for everyone.
In reality- it’s mind boggling simple…. Copy some of the regulations of the best managed states with the best hunting, age structure & results. Elementary!!! Copy iowa, OH, KS….. just shift the gun season out 2 weeks. The whole Midwest would explode with opportunity if this alone happened!!!!
Spot on Skip. As a MI resident it’s frustrating. Hard to ever see it changing, at least not in my lifetime. I will say they made antler point restrictions in our upper half of the state several years ago and while it’s certainly made a difference from what I hear, we’re still talking about instead of spikes, fork horns and six points getting killed it’s now possible to see or kill a 120” buck. Far far cry from the good Midwest states. We just have so many hunters in this state (good thing in many ways, not so much as far as having a 5yr old buck roaming around) that it’s very difficult to find access, and it’s very difficult for a deer to reach 3 years of age. Like you say though, the DNR could certainly make some changes that would make big impact if they wanted to.
 

Daver

PMA Member
Next to my farm in Southern Iowa a group of non-residents bought up a block of 4,000 acres. It has almost eliminated all locals from hunting. They are really nice guys and would never do any illegal act. They never shoot does which has greatly increased the herd so of course every farmer in the area is irate with the damage even the ones who lease farm ground from these guys. It has created a poaching mecca for the locals. We find dead bucks every year that were obviously shot from the road and who knows how many are hauled out at night. Our hunting during the rut is terrible compared to what it used to be. The bucks don't have to travel to find their next doe. These same situations around the state just add fuel to the fire for the farmer groups and insurance companies to wipe out the deer herd. The Iowa deer herd belongs to all Iowa residents and the Iowa DNR is doing everything possible to protect it for Iowans.
I hear you...there are multiple dimensions to this issue to be sure. But I am certain that the problems that you are seeing there are not directly brought to bear by the guys posting here.

What town are you nearest to? (I have a place near Selma, IA, FYI.)
 

deerman54

Banned
I am near your farm. When you're full name got posted on this website during the switch over I looked on Beacon to see where your farm was. I can't believe you don't have poaching problems with all of your road frontage and views to your fields.
 

Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
Side topic from above…Poaching is an issue across the state. Every neighborhood. I’ve been all over the state & im on the farms non stop. I hear the shots many others don’t. I see what goes on when folks aren’t watching their land. I’ve seen it in every neighborhood out there. We stone cold nailed several scum bags in the act. Charged and guilty. We have to stay on it…. Screen roads, cameras galore. Patrol & watch, u name it. It sucks. I hate that element. There’s absolutely ways to slow or stop it. It would drive me nuts if I was a NR with no one watching. It’s not a NR or R issue- it’s a scum bag issue. Clearly we have more scum R’s that poach but handful of NR’s as well. All irrelevant - the poachers are scum & anyone discussing either side of R & NR dynamics can agree on that!!!

side note- my NR friends can & do hunt yearly…. They can gun hunt yearly. They can small game hunt, Turkey hunt, predator hunt, pheasant hunt, fish, u name it. We have such a fragile & limited system - with 100000% the demand than can be supplied - with 6% timber.. & probably .1% of the nations deer (whatever - making this up) - we cannot afford to mess with this fragile system. Fact is- like it or not- If we opened up to NR for yearly tags- every farm would be gobbled up IMMEDIATELY- rec prices double in a year… there’s tens of thousands of hunters who would instantly buy here. I could go on with what would happen after a couple years- it can’t happen. Even NR’s know - what iowa is- would be no more.
We are struggling as it is for access & opportunities for R’s. There’s zero chance we can have any system where “everyone is happy”. By rule & definition of this extremely limited resource - we have to pick our battles & who makes the regulations & why. So many in other states want to fix their own management- that’s the best hope & most likely solution Even if it seems far fetched. One of the great potential states will someday make the change. I have faith in the younger hunters.

I do appreciate how folks are “debating this”. All in good taste & thoughtfully debated or expressed. No matter your view- props on that & much respect to all here.
 
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IowaBowHunter1983

Super Moderator
Staff member
Definitely a delicate conversation here with more than a few opinions/perspectives and I appreciate most of the posts offered because they’re respectful even while not necessarily agreeing on every point (very hard to find in this country anymore). I hope mine/this one is too.
I love this site and have learned a TON from most of you guys and the last thing I want to do is burn any bridges or piss any of you off.
Full disclosure I’m a MI resident and IL landowner. While I agree with everything Skip said I also think it’s got a snowballs chance in you know where of actually being “fixed” in these other states. However even if it was I’ll just never be able to get my mind around how we as Americans could tell someone who owns land, pays taxes on it, maybe even fought in our military for the very freedom we have to own it that they can’t hunt it, fish it, mushroom hunt it, cut timber off it, farm it, or anything else that every other landowner in their county/state can do. Just not right in my opinion and I know it’s obviously not a popular one on this site so go nice on me haha!! I get being protective of the resource I really do. It would almost assuredly drive land prices up. It would probably further reduce access. I don’t buy that it would reduce the quality of the herd. But certainly there are negative consequences that would come along with it. But to have the original poster’s situation is even worse in my opinion. And yes, I know, he and everyone knows the rules up front so if we don’t like it don’t do it.
just my two cents (and that’s overpriced!). Now back to all things habitat and food plot related, much more fun topic lol!
Appreciate the post... I understand your point of view, I really do, but I can't agree with it. If we are to apply the standard of "if you own it you can do whatever you want with it" our entire hunting heritage would have long been destroyed. Humans are eternally flawed in this manner. What if we applied this same philosophy to Elk in hard to draw units in New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, etc? Sheep in Montana or Alaska? Moose in Idaho? Elk in Michigan? The resource will always need to me managed. If Iowa was a free for all, we wouldn't be having this conversation because it would be just another state (or worse).

I just hope we are smart enough to look west as a model and not east in regards to the tag creep discussion. It's part of the game.
 

Rous14

Well-Known Member
Appreciate the post... I understand your point of view, I really do, but I can't agree with it. If we are to apply the standard of "if you own it you can do whatever you want with it" our entire hunting heritage would have long been destroyed. Humans are eternally flawed in this manner. What if we applied this same philosophy to Elk in hard to draw units in New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, etc? Sheep in Montana or Alaska? Moose in Idaho? Elk in Michigan? The resource will always need to me managed. If Iowa was a free for all, we wouldn't be having this conversation because it would be just another state (or worse).

I just hope we are smart enough to look west as a model and not east in regards to the tag creep discussion. It's part of the game.
Not sure your comparison illustrates my point of view fairly. I completely agree that the resource needs to be managed and I’ve certainly never said a landowner should be able to do whatever he/she wants like kill 6 bucks or whatever. The important part of my statement that you left off is that they should be able to do all the things that any other landowner in the state or county does. Certainly the state or county is and should be managed but we shouldn’t, in my opinion, tell two different landowners right next to each other that one can hunt and one can’t (every 4-5 years). I keep seeing a lot of references to NR hunters and tags out west. Those references are not to landowners, huge difference. If Iowa wants to make it very hard or very expensive (already is imo) for NRs to draw a tag because the resource requires that than so be it. But nobody is telling a private landowner in Colorado or Arizona that they have an entirely different set of rules than their neighbor (at least to my knowledge) and if they did I would think that’s simply wrong in this country.
 

IowaBowHunter1983

Super Moderator
Staff member
Not sure your comparison illustrates my point of view fairly. I completely agree that the resource needs to be managed and I’ve certainly never said a landowner should be able to do whatever he/she wants like kill 6 bucks or whatever. The important part of my statement that you left off is that they should be able to do all the things that any other landowner in the state or county does. Certainly the state or county is and should be managed but we shouldn’t, in my opinion, tell two different landowners right next to each other that one can hunt and one can’t (every 4-5 years). I keep seeing a lot of references to NR hunters and tags out west. Those references are not to landowners, huge difference. If Iowa wants to make it very hard or very expensive (already is imo) for NRs to draw a tag because the resource requires that than so be it. But nobody is telling a private landowner in Colorado or Arizona that they have an entirely different set of rules than their neighbor (at least to my knowledge) and if they did I would think that’s simply wrong in this country.
That is certainly the case for tags in Wyoming. That is the only state I am really familiar with, but I am sure many others are the same way. Wyoming Game and Fish Department - Home
 
Not sure your comparison illustrates my point of view fairly. I completely agree that the resource needs to be managed and I’ve certainly never said a landowner should be able to do whatever he/she wants like kill 6 bucks or whatever. The important part of my statement that you left off is that they should be able to do all the things that any other landowner in the state or county does. Certainly the state or county is and should be managed but we shouldn’t, in my opinion, tell two different landowners right next to each other that one can hunt and one can’t (every 4-5 years). I keep seeing a lot of references to NR hunters and tags out west. Those references are not to landowners, huge difference. If Iowa wants to make it very hard or very expensive (already is imo) for NRs to draw a tag because the resource requires that than so be it. But nobody is telling a private landowner in Colorado or Arizona that they have an entirely different set of rules than their neighbor (at least to my knowledge) and if they did I would think that’s simply wrong in this country.

The wildlife in a state is held in trust for the residents of the state, not for the landowners in the state.
 

Daver

PMA Member
I am near your farm. When you're full name got posted on this website during the switch over I looked on Beacon to see where your farm was. I can't believe you don't have poaching problems with all of your road frontage and views to your fields.
We don't have a bad poaching problem in our area, but it has happened. Short version...there are some good neighbors in the area and that is "known" around the area. Also, while I do have a lot of road frontage, I have morphed things over time to in essence keep the deer activity just out of view behind a hill, etc.
 

Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
My start owning land as a young punk was 10 miles from Selma. Hunted right by Selma with permission. Great area. My farm was 3 miles from Dbltree & we did a lot of projects together. Great memories. & a lot of lessons learned as a young naive land owner. Way back then we had the NR “debate” rolling hard across the state. We had NR’s buying up lots of land. I started as a NR. I see all sides of this. R’s should be the ones in the end that decide the regs of any state.
 

Elvis188

Super Moderator
There is a simple solution to resolve all of the issues for Residents and Non-Residents. I'm not from Iowa and have never hunted nor applied for an Iowa Tag. I am from another incredible whitetail state that has figured out how to try to keep the balance. Kansas. We produce a ton of top end bucks every year with sparse timber statewide.(It doesn't take timber to raise giant deer).

We allow Non-Resident Landowners to hunt deer each year on their own property with an over the counter tag.
We have unlimited General Resident and landowner tags available for any state resident.
We issue roughly 22,000 Non Resident Tags through a drawing each year.
We have a state backed program called Walk-in-Hunting where the state leases from private landowners to allow the public access.
We have some great wildlife areas at some of our larger reservoirs.
Residents and NR Landowners can hunt with the seasonal weapon from Sept 15- Dec 31. No needing to pick a season or weapon to hunt.
Our gun season starts the Wednesday after Thanksgiving each year and we use High Power Rifles.
We also allow Cross Bows for archery season.

Yes we have NR's buy land, but not as much as you would think.
Yes we have leasing.
Yes we have people who lose properties to hunt each year.
If land sits idol for more than a year (No farming or livestock) then it is taken out of an agriculture valuation and taxed at normal rates which are 3-4 times higher. That is how we keep land in Ag and not just rec. Nobody wants to pay taxes 3-4 times higher than they have too.

Here is what we also have that makes all of this possible. A ONE BUCK LIMIT regardless of land ownership.

From the outside looking in, you guys in Iowa are gonna have to get behind something like this or the Non-Residents and their lobbyist are gonna keep buying politicians and shove it down your throat. You guys get 2 buck tags or 3 buck tags if you are a landowner. That's great, but you also face a crap storm every legislative session trying to not give an inch. Eventually something will have to give and money will win and you will lose.

I know none of you want to give up a buck tag for a non-resident but when Iowa can get $1,000 for a single tag from an NR, it won't be long before the legislature takes notice and gets tired of rejecting all of the money from NR's each year that could be used for deer management.

Suggestion:
Resident Landowner can get 2 buck tags each year.
General Resident can get 1 buck tag each year.
Non-Resident Land owners can get on buck tag each year.

If you stop and think about this for a minute you can argue that you don't like NR's but at the end of the day you just all want to be able to hold on to the ability to shoot multiple bucks per season. The guys who have moved to Iowa because of the deer, really mean they have moved to Iowa because they can shoot multiple deer each year. If that wasn't the case they could produce the same quality bucks in multiple other states by doing the exact same management even with gun seasons during the rut.

You can keep fighting each year in the legislature, but you need to stop telling yourselves that you are fighting for one thing when in fact you really just want to keep all of the buck tags for yourself. This will eventually be your undoing.

As I said at the beginning, I am on the outside looking in and have been following these same conversations on this site for more than 10 years. Don't kill the messenger, I am just a passionate deer hunter who is passing along what I see through these hundreds of post over the many years on this site. I hope you guys figure it out before you lose more than you can afford to because you wouldn't budge an inch.
 

IowaBowHunter1983

Super Moderator
Staff member
There is a simple solution to resolve all of the issues for Residents and Non-Residents. I'm not from Iowa and have never hunted nor applied for an Iowa Tag. I am from another incredible whitetail state that has figured out how to try to keep the balance. Kansas. We produce a ton of top end bucks every year with sparse timber statewide.(It doesn't take timber to raise giant deer).

We allow Non-Resident Landowners to hunt deer each year on their own property with an over the counter tag.
We have unlimited General Resident and landowner tags available for any state resident.
We issue roughly 22,000 Non Resident Tags through a drawing each year.
We have a state backed program called Walk-in-Hunting where the state leases from private landowners to allow the public access.
We have some great wildlife areas at some of our larger reservoirs.
Residents and NR Landowners can hunt with the seasonal weapon from Sept 15- Dec 31. No needing to pick a season or weapon to hunt.
Our gun season starts the Wednesday after Thanksgiving each year and we use High Power Rifles.
We also allow Cross Bows for archery season.

Yes we have NR's buy land, but not as much as you would think.
Yes we have leasing.
Yes we have people who lose properties to hunt each year.
If land sits idol for more than a year (No farming or livestock) then it is taken out of an agriculture valuation and taxed at normal rates which are 3-4 times higher. That is how we keep land in Ag and not just rec. Nobody wants to pay taxes 3-4 times higher than they have too.

Here is what we also have that makes all of this possible. A ONE BUCK LIMIT regardless of land ownership.

From the outside looking in, you guys in Iowa are gonna have to get behind something like this or the Non-Residents and their lobbyist are gonna keep buying politicians and shove it down your throat. You guys get 2 buck tags or 3 buck tags if you are a landowner. That's great, but you also face a crap storm every legislative session trying to not give an inch. Eventually something will have to give and money will win and you will lose.

I know none of you want to give up a buck tag for a non-resident but when Iowa can get $1,000 for a single tag from an NR, it won't be long before the legislature takes notice and gets tired of rejecting all of the money from NR's each year that could be used for deer management.

Suggestion:
Resident Landowner can get 2 buck tags each year.
General Resident can get 1 buck tag each year.
Non-Resident Land owners can get on buck tag each year.

If you stop and think about this for a minute you can argue that you don't like NR's but at the end of the day you just all want to be able to hold on to the ability to shoot multiple bucks per season. The guys who have moved to Iowa because of the deer, really mean they have moved to Iowa because they can shoot multiple deer each year. If that wasn't the case they could produce the same quality bucks in multiple other states by doing the exact same management even with gun seasons during the rut.

You can keep fighting each year in the legislature, but you need to stop telling yourselves that you are fighting for one thing when in fact you really just want to keep all of the buck tags for yourself. This will eventually be your undoing.

As I said at the beginning, I am on the outside looking in and have been following these same conversations on this site for more than 10 years. Don't kill the messenger, I am just a passionate deer hunter who is passing along what I see through these hundreds of post over the many years on this site. I hope you guys figure it out before you lose more than you can afford to because you wouldn't budge an inch.
Kansas has 5.2M acres of timber & 1.8M in CRP. 7M total cover
Iowa has 2.9M acres of timber & 1.6M in CRP. 4.5M total cover

I moved to Iowa from Michigan. I did not do it to shoot multiple bucks. I came to the state with the most sound management plan across the board.

Opening up tags for NR will 100% raise the cost of land. (look at Pike co Illinois as pretty close example). Is this good for Iowa residents? no, unless you plan to sell out and retire.

If its simply about revenue, double the price of NR tags. They would still sell out and be a line to do so! Hell raise the landowner tag to normal tag price too. Lot's of things you can do on the revenue front without negative consequences on quality.
 

sep0667

Land of the Whitetail
There is a simple solution to resolve all of the issues for Residents and Non-Residents. I'm not from Iowa and have never hunted nor applied for an Iowa Tag. I am from another incredible whitetail state that has figured out how to try to keep the balance. Kansas. We produce a ton of top end bucks every year with sparse timber statewide.(It doesn't take timber to raise giant deer).

We allow Non-Resident Landowners to hunt deer each year on their own property with an over the counter tag.
We have unlimited General Resident and landowner tags available for any state resident.
We issue roughly 22,000 Non Resident Tags through a drawing each year.
We have a state backed program called Walk-in-Hunting where the state leases from private landowners to allow the public access.
We have some great wildlife areas at some of our larger reservoirs.
Residents and NR Landowners can hunt with the seasonal weapon from Sept 15- Dec 31. No needing to pick a season or weapon to hunt.
Our gun season starts the Wednesday after Thanksgiving each year and we use High Power Rifles.
We also allow Cross Bows for archery season.

Yes we have NR's buy land, but not as much as you would think.
Yes we have leasing.
Yes we have people who lose properties to hunt each year.
If land sits idol for more than a year (No farming or livestock) then it is taken out of an agriculture valuation and taxed at normal rates which are 3-4 times higher. That is how we keep land in Ag and not just rec. Nobody wants to pay taxes 3-4 times higher than they have too.

Here is what we also have that makes all of this possible. A ONE BUCK LIMIT regardless of land ownership.

From the outside looking in, you guys in Iowa are gonna have to get behind something like this or the Non-Residents and their lobbyist are gonna keep buying politicians and shove it down your throat. You guys get 2 buck tags or 3 buck tags if you are a landowner. That's great, but you also face a crap storm every legislative session trying to not give an inch. Eventually something will have to give and money will win and you will lose.

I know none of you want to give up a buck tag for a non-resident but when Iowa can get $1,000 for a single tag from an NR, it won't be long before the legislature takes notice and gets tired of rejecting all of the money from NR's each year that could be used for deer management.

Suggestion:
Resident Landowner can get 2 buck tags each year.
General Resident can get 1 buck tag each year.
Non-Resident Land owners can get on buck tag each year.

If you stop and think about this for a minute you can argue that you don't like NR's but at the end of the day you just all want to be able to hold on to the ability to shoot multiple bucks per season. The guys who have moved to Iowa because of the deer, really mean they have moved to Iowa because they can shoot multiple deer each year. If that wasn't the case they could produce the same quality bucks in multiple other states by doing the exact same management even with gun seasons during the rut.

You can keep fighting each year in the legislature, but you need to stop telling yourselves that you are fighting for one thing when in fact you really just want to keep all of the buck tags for yourself. This will eventually be your undoing.

As I said at the beginning, I am on the outside looking in and have been following these same conversations on this site for more than 10 years. Don't kill the messenger, I am just a passionate deer hunter who is passing along what I see through these hundreds of post over the many years on this site. I hope you guys figure it out before you lose more than you can afford to because you wouldn't budge an inch.

For me, not at all. One buck a year is fine for me, that would not bother me one bit. I've been in IA my whole life and have never shot more than one buck in a fall. For me its the dream of one day owning my own piece of ground. You open things up to NR and rec prices will undoubtedly go up and push that dream even further down the road. It will also make access to private ground much more difficult for residents.
 

Rous14

Well-Known Member
Kansas has 5.2M acres of timber & 1.8M in CRP. 7M total cover
Iowa has 2.9M acres of timber & 1.6M in CRP. 4.5M total cover

I moved to Iowa from Michigan. I did not do it to shoot multiple bucks. I came to the state with the most sound management plan across the board.

Opening up tags for NR will 100% raise the cost of land. (look at Pike co Illinois as pretty close example). Is this good for Iowa residents? no, unless you plan to sell out and retire.

If its simply about revenue, double the price of NR tags. They would still sell out and be a line to do so! Hell raise the landowner tag to normal tag price too. Lot's of things you can do on the revenue front without negative consequences on quality.
What year did you make the move IBH1983? What part of MI were you from?
 

Rous14

Well-Known Member
Side topic from above…Poaching is an issue across the state. Every neighborhood. I’ve been all over the state & im on the farms non stop. I hear the shots many others don’t. I see what goes on when folks aren’t watching their land. I’ve seen it in every neighborhood out there. We stone cold nailed several scum bags in the act. Charged and guilty. We have to stay on it…. Screen roads, cameras galore. Patrol & watch, u name it. It sucks. I hate that element. There’s absolutely ways to slow or stop it. It would drive me nuts if I was a NR with no one watching. It’s not a NR or R issue- it’s a scum bag issue. Clearly we have more scum R’s that poach but handful of NR’s as well. All irrelevant - the poachers are scum & anyone discussing either side of R & NR dynamics can agree on that!!!

side note- my NR friends can & do hunt yearly…. They can gun hunt yearly. They can small game hunt, Turkey hunt, predator hunt, pheasant hunt, fish, u name it. We have such a fragile & limited system - with 100000% the demand than can be supplied - with 6% timber.. & probably .1% of the nations deer (whatever - making this up) - we cannot afford to mess with this fragile system. Fact is- like it or not- If we opened up to NR for yearly tags- every farm would be gobbled up IMMEDIATELY- rec prices double in a year… there’s tens of thousands of hunters who would instantly buy here. I could go on with what would happen after a couple years- it can’t happen. Even NR’s know - what iowa is- would be no more.
We are struggling as it is for access & opportunities for R’s. There’s zero chance we can have any system where “everyone is happy”. By rule & definition of this extremely limited resource - we have to pick our battles & who makes the regulations & why. So many in other states want to fix their own management- that’s the best hope & most likely solution Even if it seems far fetched. One of the great potential states will someday make the change. I have faith in the younger hunters.

I do appreciate how folks are “debating this”. All in good taste & thoughtfully debated or expressed. No matter your view- props on that & much respect to all here.
I’m in that NR boat you referenced as far as living away from my farm and not being able to watch it closely and you summed up my feelings well….drives me nuts just like you said.
I have decent neighbors that keep an eye out but it’s still not the same. I’ve not had any theft of cameras, or caught anyone trespassing on cameras, so I think I’m fairly fortunate in that regard. But, I’m sure there are things that go on that I’m just not seeing or catching and yes that sucks!
 
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