FALL PLOTS--- Pros/Cons Brassicas Rape etc vs Wheat Oats Rye Peas

[deep woods goat hunter]

Last year I drilled wheat-oats-rye-awp followed by broadcasting rwwp plot topper brassica mix over the top with pretty good results over 10 acres in two plots. Worked out pretty well What are you guys doing? What co-op mix are you guys that are no-tilling running through your drills? rate- etc.
This year I'm running out of my GP drill
Big Box-
Wheat
Rye Radishes
Sugar Beets

Small box-
Turnips
Brassicas
Rape

This is my first year complete no tilling fall plots- looking for some wisdom.
THANKS

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

I keep things very simple on the brassica front. It's PT turnips and Tillage radish. That's it. Try to be 6-8 lbs per acre. I plant rye into beans but never as a stand alone crop and never mix grains and brassicas.

 

[Sligh1]

Same for brassicas as above.
I separate brassicas into earlier planting alone.
when it’s time to spray brassicas with clethodim & crop oil….. I hit the other plots with Gly & drill in Dbltree mix (rye, oats, radish, clover, sometimes alfalfa, winter peas, etc). Dbltree mix planted too earlier can get a big overgrown so that’s why wait a bit.
Sucks having to separate plantings …. but I can still finish brassicas with their last spray (like I would be anyways) & then do the cereal mix same day.

Over-seeding like above has some great options & easy as well. several options there.
yes- if a guy wanted some combos to finish all at same time - so it was only brassica spraying maybe later…. I’d have a few options guys could try.

BETWEEN TURNIPS & RADISH vs THE MIX….. PREFERENCE & USE of the 2…. I’ll just rank it with a %…
60% to turnips & radish, 40% cereal mix. 100% I want both & there’s a million reasons why on that too. .

 

[Rous14]

I keep things very simple on the brassica front. It's PT turnips and Tillage radish. That's it. Try to be 6-8 lbs per acre. I plant rye into beans but never as a stand alone crop and never mix grains and brassicas.

IBH I have a small 1/4 acre sized plot that come Labor Day I was going to just broadcast rye in to. U caught my attention when u mention u never use it as a stand alone, any reason why I shouldn’t either in a small plot like that? I could easily add some oats and wheat to it but wasn’t sure why that would be necessary so I was just planning on the rye.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

IBH I have a small 1/4 acre sized plot that come Labor Day I was going to just broadcast rye in to. U caught my attention when u mention u never use it as a stand alone, any reason why I shouldn’t either in a small plot like that? I could easily add some oats and wheat to it but wasn’t sure why that would be necessary so I was just planning on the rye.

....because I think you can do much better. Like the mix Skip mentions above or planting rye into another crop like beans or corn. At a minimum I would probably add clover to your rye as a stand alone plot. Part of answer depends on what you want next year...... ONE example...... I don't think there is a better way to establish a clover plot than fall planting it with rye.

 

[Tmayer13]

So this year was the first year I ever used "buck on bag" brassica seed. I used whitetail institute "beets and greens", "tall tine tubers" and "Winter Greens". I have always just bought Purple Top turnips and radishes from my local coop. The ONLY reason I used this seed this year is because it has this "Rain Bond" coating on it and in the past years I have had some issues with rain this time of year, so this year I wanted to try and guarantee myself a good brassica crop. Now this year it may not have mattered as I got about 3" of rain within 24 hrs of planting my seed. I also am tilling and spreading seed, so in my head I wanted to make sure these seeds would germinate from this Rain Bond coating.
Here is what I can tell you about these seeds:
Beets and Greens- Basically its Radishes, rape, kale and Sugar Beets. The issue was setting my spreader. The sugar beet is so much larger than the rest, so after spreading the whole plot I still had a pile of sugar beets in my spreader. Also the beets and radishes did NOT have the rain coating on the seeds
Tall Tine Tubers- Its only turnips and nothing special other than the Rain coating
Winter Greens- Basically this blend is just a forage type blend with very little tuber/bulb type plants

Also the reason I went with 3 different blends. The Beets and Green blend I wanted near my bow stands. I want deer in them until The gun seasons and then I want them out of those plots(in theory).
The winter greens and tall tine tubers are lining the outside edge(as well as some fill in areas) of my beans. These are more a "late" season type seed for when its cold. I don't exactly want deer in them during Oct and Nov as I want them to want my seed that is closer to my bow stands.
Once again this is all in theory and probably hold true to some extent but lets be real deer typically eat whatever is in front of them.

Looking back and knowing the weather that I received after planting, regular ole radishes and PTT would have done exactly the same thing but I do not regret spending the extra coin on the seed

The only time I will mix rye or any grain with my brassicas is if I have bare spots in my brassica plantings. I still cannot understand or get behind these mixes that them all mixed together, will they work Sure, but I want large softballs for turnips and baby arms for radishes. I have high deer numbers and NEED as much food as possible. These mixes (RWWP deadly dozen for instance) has tons of great crops in their mix, but I can tell you that if i plant my turnips the first week of September Ill be lucky to get anything larger than a ping pong ball sized turnips and that will not be sufficient for me. This is the reason why I and the others who posted here do NOT plant these together.
Secondly I also want diversity in my plots. I want to keep deer constantly moving through the area(especially during bow season) that's why i try and plant the "earlier" season type crops around my bow stands and the "later" seasoned crops out further where I can punch holes through them with my smokeless at 400 yards.

I know I may not have answered your question but well i started rambling...haha sorry

 

[Bassattackr]

Doing radishes, oats and rye in about 2 acres here in a few weeks, radishes will winter kill so sets up well to lay down rye and no til soybeans into next year.

For smaller / micro plots, I wouldn't discount rye mixed with perennial clover. Both work well in part shade and are great companion crops. I get use from planting time in September all the way through April the following spring.

This is a 1/4 acre micro plot, where a logging road and a draw intersect, coming up from the neighbors bottoms.

Rye planted around Sept 1, a small amount of clover thrown in. Only a couple weeks after planting and they're already using it..

Thru October..

Even the big boys come through it checking for does in November, maybe grabbing a bite along the way..

As the leaves fall, they still filter through them looking for clover and rye into December..

January rolls around and they keep it well "trimmed" to about lip height. Even patches of bare dirt starting to show..

Sometimes even running to it they love it so much.. (Heh heh)

By the end of the month it's surprising there's any left in this 1/4 acre plot.

Despite acres of beans, alfalfa and brassicas nearby, they continue to filter in and out of this little rye patch the entire year.

 

[deep woods goat hunter]

Thanks for the input guys.
I will update this thread with pics later on. Total or 4 acres in 6 different plots on 4 different farms.
Id say I will be headed towards straight brassica mix on a couple and cereal grains on the woods/terrible dirt plots.

 

[C-LINE10]

Last year I drilled wheat-oats-rye-awp followed by broadcasting rwwp plot topper brassica mix over the top with pretty good results over 10 acres in two plots. Worked out pretty well What are you guys doing? What co-op mix are you guys that are no-tilling running through your drills? rate- etc.
This year I'm running out of my GP drill
Big Box-
Wheat
Rye Radishes
Sugar Beets

Small box-
Turnips
Brassicas
Rape

This is my first year complete no tilling fall plots- looking for some wisdom.
THANKS

Planted brassicas in 3 plots the last 2 weeks. Waiting for another 2-3 weeks to plant Rye Grain and clover in 3 more plots. Broadcasting everything into dead (some mowed but all dead) vegetation/old sorghum, buckwheat etc..... did not till anything this fall. Have also added radishes to standing beans just before rain 2 weeks ago, may have been to early. Will add oats to another bean plot in another 3-4 weeks---No tilling is my big test for the year

 

[Rous14]

Gotcha.

....because I think you can do much better. Like the mix Skip mentions above or planting rye into another crop like beans or corn. At a minimum I would probably add clover to your rye as a stand alone plot. Part of answer depends on what you want next year...... ONE example...... I don't think there is a better way to establish a clover plot than fall planting it with rye.

Gotcha. Thanks for the advice.

 

[deep woods goat hunter]

Three days after drilling and lookie here!

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[MN Slick]

I'm a long way from my farms and need to simplify my plotting. I have gotten interested in the regnerative plotting theory of multi species mixes and the benefits to the soil along with reduced amounts herbicides and fertilizer. I'm just starting out but the long term plan is to plant twice per year, a warm season soil building mix in to overwintered rye/tricale/hairy vetch and whatever else around Memorial Day and a fall mix in mid to late August. I'm planting my fall mix this weekend which includes over a dozen species including oats, triticale, radish, and turnips among others. I'm interested to see if the oats and triticale planted this early will loose palatabilty or not and I don't expect huge bulbs and tubers which is fine.

 

[Tmayer13]

I'm a long way from my farms and need to simplify my plotting. I have gotten interested in the regnerative plotting theory of multi species mixes and the benefits to the soil along with reduced amounts herbicides and fertilizer. I'm just starting out but the long term plan is to plant twice per year, a warm season soil building mix in to overwintered rye/tricale/hairy vetch and whatever else around Memorial Day and a fall mix in mid to late August. I'm planting my fall mix this weekend which includes over a dozen species including oats, triticale, radish, and turnips among others. I'm interested to see if the oats and triticale planted this early will loose palatabilty or not and I don't expect huge bulbs and tubers which is fine.

I am just wondering why you wouldn't leave the grains out for now? Either plant your tubers now to get the growth on them but plant them sparse and then fill in with your grains later. Or add your gains in the spring to gain the growth and weed suppression? You already know your at risk of having your grains planted too early to have good attraction during the season so why risk it?
These are honest questions. And BTW i love the thoughts of regen farming!!!

 

[Bassattackr]

I'm planting my fall mix this weekend which includes over a dozen species including oats, triticale, radish, and turnips among others. I'm interested to see if the oats and triticale planted this early will loose palatabilty or not and I don't expect huge bulbs and tubers which is fine.

IMO, If you want both in the same plot, you're better off planting your brassicas early and then broadcasting cereals over the top of them a couple weeks later. However, there's still problems with this scenario, as they will compete with each other.. Brassicas will start to shade out the cereals and the cereals will pull moisture from the brassicas, robbing them of yield and nitrogen.

This is why Dbltree planted brassicas and cereals in strips next to each other (then alternated every successive year). Get all the benefits of having them both in the same plot, still have the soil benefits of rotation, always have something growing in your plot(s), yet yield far outweighed the "throwing everything out there and see what sticks" fad that's being pushed by the market right now.

If you still wanted to stick with a single fall planting, I would rather have the cereal date and small bulbs over the overmature cereal grains that don't get touched.. Or just ditch the turnips and keep the (faster growing) radish in the mix.

 

[MN Slick]

I am just wondering why you wouldn't leave the grains out for now? Either plant your tubers now to get the growth on them but plant them sparse and then fill in with your grains later. Or add your gains in the spring to gain the growth and weed suppression? You already know your at risk of having your grains planted too early to have good attraction during the season so why risk it?
These are honest questions. And BTW i love the thoughts of regen farming!!!

Good questions. Our plot strategies have been evolving due to being 6 hours from our farm and the goofy weather on the IA/Mo line. The pattern has been too wet in the spring followed by a drought from Mid June onward for years and lots of weak plots.

The mid August planting is strictly an experiment to see how grains do planted earlier than we normally do it. Our plots are small so it very possible the deer will keep them in check and there is a good chance it won't rain for a couple weeks anyway. If they get too mature we'll simply push it back a week or two in the future.

Your point about spring planted grains is solid and was my plan last spring but as the pattern has been, it was too wet. I planned on planting 7 acres but only got about 1/2 done due to it being too wet and of those only 1 acre did any good likely too much rain and cool temps.

 

[Tmayer13]

Good questions. Our plot strategies have been evolving due to being 6 hours from our farm and the goofy weather on the IA/Mo line. The pattern has been too wet in the spring followed by a drought from Mid June onward for years and lots of weak plots.

The mid August planting is strictly an experiment to see how grains do planted earlier than we normally do it. Our plots are small so it very possible the deer will keep them in check and there is a good chance it won't rain for a couple weeks anyway. If they get too mature we'll simply push it back a week or two in the future.

Your point about spring planted grains is solid and was my plan last spring but as the pattern has been, it was too wet. I planned on planting 7 acres but only got about 1/2 done due to it being too wet and of those only 1 acre did any good likely too much rain and cool temps.

The time factor is a large one! Make sure you report back with your future findings. Something else to consider and maybe you already have is adjusting the mix. Plant heavier on the brassicas and maybe a little lighter on the grain? Just another thought
Good luck bud!

 

[deep woods goat hunter]

I like bassatractr mention of rotating/splitting. If this doesnt work mat try that.


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[deep woods goat hunter]

The time factor is a large one! Make sure you report back with your future findings. Something else to consider and maybe you already have is adjusting the mix. Plant heavier on the brassicas and maybe a little lighter on the grain? Just another thought
Good luck bud!

I did adjust rates depending on the size of the plot and pressure from deer I expect. On my plot thats next to the big soybeans/corn plots i was heavier on small seed box- brassicas rape ptt. Smaller plots heavier on the main seed box- wheat-rye-turnup-sugar beets


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[MN Slick]

IMO, If you want both in the same plot, you're better off planting your brassicas early and then broadcasting cereals over the top of them a couple weeks later. However, there's still problems with this scenario, as they will compete with each other.. Brassicas will start to shade out the cereals and the cereals will pull moisture from the brassicas, robbing them of yield and nitrogen.

This is why Dbltree planted brassicas and cereals in strips next to each other (then alternated every successive year). Get all the benefits of having them both in the same plot, still have the soil benefits of rotation, always have something growing in your plot(s), yet yield far outweighed the "throwing everything out there and see what sticks" fad that's being pushed by the market right now.

If you still wanted to stick with a single fall planting, I would rather have the cereal date and small bulbs over the overmature cereal grains that don't get touched.. Or just ditch the turnips and keep the (faster growing) radish in the mix.

Yep, the convential wisdom is we're planting grains too early and mixing with brassica is not ideal but we'll see how it works out. We've run the Dbletree mixes for years and have far less lbs per acre of oats and rye in this mix versus his. My biggest concern is we don't have enough lbs/acre of cereals that will overwinter to create good weed suppression next spring and will likley broadcast some barley next spring.

 

[Bassattackr]

Yep, the convential wisdom is we're planting grains too early and mixing with brassica is not ideal but we'll see how it works out. We've run the Dbletree mixes for years and have far less lbs per acre of oats and rye in this mix versus his. My biggest concern is we don't have enough lbs/acre of cereals that will overwinter to create good weed suppression next spring and will likley broadcast some barley next spring.

I only mention because I've seen it firsthand.. rye planted too early grows tall pretty quickly and gets untouched the entire fall. That's why (from personal experience), I'd err later than earlier if combining everything. Can't comment on oats however. Everyone needs to figure out what works for their own place though!

I'm intrigued by Barley, keep us posted on your experiences. Right now my soil pH is a touch too low to plant it this year. From what I've read it doesn't do very well in anything under pH of 6.0..