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Why I don't buy Late Antlerless #'s

Sligh1

Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
So, I've heard some rationale on why Late Antlerless doesn't get that many shed bucks OR how the harvest reporting system shows a mediocre amount of shed bucks killed. Here's why my common sense tells me it's garbage....

1) Went into Milo meat locker today. They are probably one of the highest volume deer processors in the state. Their priority is deer in fall (over beef) and have a crew of guys cuttin' em up. I asked them today how many late antlerless deer were shed bucks.... "40%. We can't believe how many are shed bucks! If you add in button bucks, that # is higher. There is NO WAY our number is less than 30% but we estimate about 40% of the turn-in to be shed bucks". The discussion then turned to them commenting how they are surprised the season goes so late BUT their motive wasn't getting into politics of it- just observation (talked to a couple of them out of a huge group working). They were just stating fact of what they've seen. Meat locker is gonna have your best info IMO- I generally get my best info on harvest from meat lockers and taxidermists.

2) As I wrote earlier, I've met 3 groups who call in shed bucks as does so the season doesn't go away. If I've met 3 groups, go across the state and figure out how many groups do that?!?!?

3) A few select guys I know don't tell anyone they shot shed bucks (just label does) because they are embarrassed.

I really believe the #'s are staggering. Not sure what reporting system says BUT I don't buy it if it's any less than 25-30%. I've seen it with my own eyes now and I have one extra thing to my advantage- I have common sense & I recognize the obvious. This season has to go away- it's really bad news (IMO).
 
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Good post! If the DNR isn't going to do away with it, then hunters need to do away with it by not participating.
 
I am curious how many shed bucks and buttons are truly shot in the late muzzy season as well.

What about this idea...

1. Discontinue the late November antlerless gun season.

2. Hold one shotgun season for 5 days in early December, Sat-Wed. In 2009, the dates would have been: 12/5/09-12/9/09. Party hunting and any sex tags OK.

3. On the following Saturday, open the late gun season for shotgun and muzzleloader, no high powered rifle, yet. No party hunting allowed, but any sex tags are OK. In 2009, the dates for this season would have been 12/12/09-12/27/09.

4. Then open a late antlerless season, as necessary, from 1/2/10-1/10/10. Rifles permitted where they are now, no antlered deer allowed, party hunting OK though.

This still gives the DNR a lot of room to "manage" the harvest number and it gets everyone out of the timber 3 weeks earlier, essentially stressing the deer herd less and lessening the chance of shed bucks getting shot.

Feel free to disagree, these are just some thoughts I have after digesting all the various inputs and discussion on this subject. Comments are welcome.
 
Hardcorehunter said:
Good post! If the DNR isn't going to do away with it, then hunters need to do away with it by not participating.
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Good luck making this happen.

If a season is open people will be hunting it.
I could take it or leave it but I will hunt it if it is open.

I did hunt it and passed a lot of buttons but finally took
a nice doe.
Wouldn't it be better for us to hunt this late season get the
numbers where they should be and then tell them to shut it down?

Otherwise it will be open forever?

Just my .02.
 
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To answer your question Daver...There was 820 shed bucks and around 11,000 button bucks reported at 9pm on Jan.10th. So I assume most of those were taken during late muzzy season.Not many had shed by the shotgun seasons.At the end of the late rifle season there had been 2211 shed bucks "reported" and 15,600 approx. button bucks.
I am positive a big number of shed bucks were reported as does.I had guys tell me they did it.
As hunters we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.If as a group we stopped shooting does/deer the state will just resort to othe ways of reducing the deer herd.
I have had big wigs from the DNR tell me that it is very unlikely they they will ever stop the rifle antlerless season.Way to many people have stopped buying shotgum tag and started buying the rifle season tags.
What I would like to see everyone do is go out and spend $150 on late rifle season tags....don't fill them......but call and report that you filled them all.The DNR would be getting the money they think they need and also think there has be enough deer taken.
I wish I could win the lottery....I would buy every doe tag in my county and burn them. LOL
 
do away with it by not participating.
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This is not the answer...

Wouldn't it be better for us to hunt this late season get the
numbers where they should be and then tell them to shut it down?
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While we all like to see lots of deer, this is how to get rid of the season

OR, contact your legislature and explain your position!
:way:
 
I agree. I'm not saying getting rid of the season is going to be easy BUT when I hear the things I've heard and what I've seen- I really felt compelled to get the truth out about what is REALLY going on. It's totally fine to challenge these things with real information, what you're seeing on the ground, etc. We're the real hunters out there who are REALLY seeing what's going on and we can help bring fourth input, discussion and challenges for the state's best interests.

I saw a MAJOR contradiction between the reporting system #'s VS what my own eyes and ears have came across 1st hand across the south central area. I felt compelled to share it with you all! :)
 
New Seasons are just like entitlement programs. Once they are established,,they Never go away.As hunters who like to see bucks,,it gets our goat. People who just want to shoot deer,,could care less. Those in the DNR/Legislature, who just want to Reduce Numbers,,could care less. Bucks or Does,,at least were killin somethin, at least we got some meat,,,at least there are less deer.....
 
I've been on this site many times, but just recently became a member. I enjoy it, and have learned alot. Being from Minnesota, I've been fortunate to hunt IA 3 times and looking to hunt it agian this fall. I have always been impressed with how Iowa has managed there deer herd, with season structure etc. Until, this late season came about. I think it is the dumbest season ever. If they want the deer numbers decreased, why not give out free doe tags?(don't know if they already do) also, as a non-resident I will spend over $500 for my tag if I draw. Which I will gladly pay, because I know I have as good a chance in Iowa to shoot a mature buck as any other state. Why not give the non-resident hunter the opportunity to shoot 5 does, I would love to help manage the heard as I'm sure many other would as well.
 
My dad and I hunted all 3 weekends of the rifle season and we didn't see one doe, only bucks. Saw a huge deer that I have on camera during the rut, only saw 1 shed buck, and 4 button bucks. Yeah...I think I'm done shooting does for a while. I'm worried that in 4 years there won't be any mature bucks around. :(
 
Sligh1 said:
I saw a MAJOR contradiction between the reporting system #'s VS what my own eyes and ears have came across 1st hand across the south central area. I felt compelled to share it with you all! :)
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With all due respect Sligh, you saw one locker, prominent state wide or not, one does not represent the entire state....

HOWEVER, I agree the late antlerless season needs to be discontinued, but it will not be the first to go. In fact, I have heard from Tom Litchfield directly during a recent interview I conducted for an upcoming article where he told me the November season is going to be ended shortly, it might not be immediate, but he assured me it will not be lasting much longer.

Also, the number of shed bucks being taken is a very small fraction in the overall doe specific harvest seasons and is NOT going to affect the population. The only affect it could have on anyone of us personally is if one of our target bucks gets shot on the neighbors property. which would irritate the hell out of me too!

I will also say this, I do not belive the DNR is out to screw us as hunters and DOES have our overall best interest in mind for the long run. I do not think DNR is neglecting the issues of shed bucks, rather they look at is collateral damage... which is a sacrifice they are willing to make in order to maintain the current seasons we enjoy.

I think the flaw is with the system, and there oughta be fines for shed bucks as it IS counter productive to the efforts as doe harvest controls the populations.

Having said that, I would love to see both the late antlerless and the Nov. season go away, but for now, I suggest we participate and shoot a few does in areas where the population is excessive or concentrated. If we don't participate in these seasons and do out part to maintain the current population the alternative is to let more NR's in and attempt to control things through alternative methods, which as hunters should bother us all!

Again, Sligh, no disrespect intended and this is not directed at you personally! Some of this discussion just rubbed me the wrong way and I dont feel it fully represents the full arguement.

:way:
 
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Great discussion. If you don't want to participate in the hunt, this is a way of not killing shed bucks. Those that choose to, can. I prefer not to. The DNR has our best interest at heart, and they do have to deal with pressure from Farm Bureau and the insurance company lobby.
 
Some in the DNR, especially those that hunt,,might have hunter interests in mind, but as stated,, there are many hands in the pie,,not just ours.
 
THA4..I respect your opinions on this and every other topic but with that said I wouldn't just disregard the statements of one locker as being "JUST" one lockers findings.I would bet a months wages ALL lockers on southern Iowa will say the same thing.
What I think would give the DNR more insight on whats being taken as far as shed bucks and button buck would be to have the lockers do the reporting.
To bow down to the state and shoot a lot of does to just give them what they want is stupid.It would be like having an farm pond that is overstocked with bluegills and allowing excess amounts to be taken.After ALL the gills are gone what good does it do to lower the limits back down.
I believe that most of the people that want to go ahead and shoot does to do our part are people that don't live or hunt in the effected area.
As far as one locker not representing the "entire state",we aren't talikng about the entire state when talking about the late rifle season.We are talking about 20% of the state.The southern 2 tiers.
No matter how the DRN spins this...to have shot 1400 shed bucks in 20 counties in 31 days is absurd.I say this because the county I live in and hunt in had the 2nd most shed bucks killed in the state during the late rifle season.
 
Again, until you poll every locker, you cannot make the assumption that the same is true state wide, and comparing whitetails in Iowa to gills in a farm pond is apples to oranges......

I would bet a months wages ALL lockers on southern Iowa will say the same thing
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Prove it and I will agree with you, but until then its all an assumption.....

To bow down to the state and shoot a lot of does to just give them what they want is stupid.
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this attitude is what is wrong with this whole conversation. if you like how our current deer managment works for you, then this statement is pointless. You can't please everybody! there is a happy-medium that needs to be achieved or our future as passionate whitetail hunters is in serious jeapardy

If you choose to not participate in these seasons, great, that is your choice. I don't hunt during them either as I dont need the meat. BUT, as a whole Iowa residents NOT participating in these seasons is NOT going to end them.... rather if the states biologist say we need less deer and Iowa's residents won't kill them, they will find other means.... NRs..... more doe seasons?

think about it! generalizations and assumptions are not going to get us anywhere.

Again, I agree more shed bucks are getting killed than reported, AND I dont like the current antlerless seasons...... I just don't believe enough shed bucks are being killed to negatively affect the overall population and our state's biologist say that also....

again, no disrespect
 
archery95 said:
..to have shot 1400 shed bucks in 20 counties
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Let's guess that each county is 600 square miles. I bet that is a good guess, close enough for some number crunching. So for twenty counties, that is 12,000 square miles. Divide 2,400 shed bucks into that area (almost doubling the 1400 reported) and you get 1 shed buck for every 5 square miles. I agree that this isn't ideal, but is it really such a travesty?
 
JNRBRONC said:
Let's guess that each county is 600 square miles. I bet that is a good guess, close enough for some number crunching. So for twenty counties, that is 12,000 square miles. Divide 2,400 shed bucks into that area (almost doubling the 1400 reported) and you get 1 shed buck for every 5 square miles. I agree that this isn't ideal, but is it really such a travesty?
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I hate math....

big brains suck!
:grin:
 
As someone that is obviously not directly tied to your great state I have learned alot through the various reading about this particular topic this year.

Thomas, I can honestly say that you are oozing with "voice of reasonness"!
 
I agree that this isn't ideal, but is it really such a travesty?
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Agree. As noted in some of my replies to this topic in other posts, I still say this number is insignificant. I'll also repeat that I am glad this season is not in my area.

As for Daver's proposals, for selfish reasons, I quit agreeing when I read #3 & #4. You just eliminated my favorite gun season, late muzzleloader. I am done hunting does by then and hunting only antlered deer so I am no threat to your shed bucks anyhow.
3. On the following Saturday, open the late gun season for shotgun and muzzleloader, no high powered rifle, yet. No party hunting allowed, but any sex tags are OK. In 2009, the dates for this season would have been 12/12/09-12/27/09.

4. Then open a late antlerless season, as necessary, from 1/2/10-1/10/10. Rifles permitted where they are now, no antlered deer allowed, party hunting OK though.
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