Read your post. Are not going to allow…Statewide…no chance…Let that sinks in…Zero. Sounds pretty defeated to me.
Giant Deer of Iowa are rapidly becoming a past memory
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Windlooker
Well-Known Member
Here’s the reality imo. Very few, me included, have enough ground to increase the age structure. I can’t tell anyone how many 3 and 4 year olds we’ve passed over the years to never ever see them again. I’m talking 99% of them. I’m not going to hunt year after year, or others who hunt my property, and expect no harvests in case the deer shows up next year when they don’t. I know it’s different for-those who own huge chunks and control property lines, unfortunately most don’t fall into that category.
Daver
PMA Member
This ^^ is a reality for many, unfortunately IMO. I hear you, I think we are talking about a real "tragedy of the commons" scenario these days. Even in good "neighborhoods" where multiple like minded people choose not to shoot the young hi po's...it only takes one, or few, in the area that aren't committed to that discipline to take out the stud up and comers. Harrumph!
The stated goal of the FB is zero deer. The DNR has stated deer numbers are stable (less areas devastated by EDH). They intend to keep them around the current levels.
That has nothing to do with my or anyone else's willingness to challenge FB every time they support a bill to further liberalize a hunting regulation. For the record, if you're referring to me, I am not with the ISC, just a supporter of the organization.
Doing nothing regulation wise and hoping people shoot less does isn't a solution.
I thought you were on the board and lobbied the legislature on behalf of ISC and their agenda last year with Skip. My apologies if that is incorrect.
There is nothing that will stop the decline in trophy potential without increasing the population and people deliberately culling low scoring deer. No regulation will change the course we are on in regards to producing trophy’s. So you can throw your hands up and say…oh well, it’s been a fun ride or you can get the word out to the hunters to stop shooting does for a couple years and cull some low scoring deer. I don’t believe for a second that the resident hunters of Iowa can’t increase the population by just not shooting does. As I previously said. Buy some doe tags for your county and don’t fill them. I don’t care if it is 1, 2, 5,10, or a 100 doe tags. Simple as that. When the quota is met then no one else can buy them and fill them. If your county has 1500 doe tags and guys bought all 1500 and didn’t fill one that potentially increases the county’s deer herd by 4500 for just one year. The second year you increased the county population by 10,500. Of those 4500 would be bucks. So in one county in two years you could offset the total number of second bucks shot Statewide by just not shooting or filling any of the extra does tags allowed for that one county. That doesn’t include guys holding off and not filling their anysex tags with does. You can’t tell me that we can’t accomplish this. Because every deer hunter I know believes the does have been over harvested or lost to EHD and they are willing to not shoot does to get the population up. Then push the message to shoot 130” 8 points instead of 130” 10 points. That will get people to pass 2 1/2 year old 10 points and get them shooting 3 1/2 year old 8 points. Pretty simple messaging. That alone will reverse the high grading. That should be ISC battle cry.
The party hunting and late muzzleloader wishes are low hanging fruit in comparison. But I still believe they should be done.
Again, I apologize if I misinterpreted your relationship with ISC.
MN Slick
PMA Member
I agree that increaasing the population is the only answer, but I think it has to be a grass roots effort by hunters. I think most hunters see a 130" 8 and think it's 3 years old and is on the way up rather than a 5 year old dominator taking up room on a farm. Hunters need to be educated.
New rallying cry "Pass a doe, shoot a cull". I don't like the word cull but "pass a doe shoot a management buck" doesn't have the same ring.
Who's going to lead the charge? Someone must know a hard core hunter that is tech savvy?
tall@wide
PMA Member
That’s why legislation has to be passed. Then everyone will be forced to comply with laws designed to increase age structure. I do agree 100% that you cannot rely on hunters to police themselves and increase age structure. That is definitely not going to happen.
Hell yeah I spoke out at capital. Id encouraged more people to do so.
When you speak in absolutes the argument loses credibility.
"Nothing "
"That alone "
"The only way"
There are alot of things that could and should be done. Its not a singular issue .
Agreed but the point I am trying to make is that it sounds like there are some passionate members on here in regards to cell cams or you name the complaint but if the “passionate” people use xyz just because it is legal then are they really that passionate. If something gives us an “ unfair” advantage isn’t it unfair whether legal or not? Good example, I have voiced my concerns on a dismal deer population in my area. I haven’t shot a doe in years. Will I alone make a difference in population, unlikely but I am not a hypocrite to complain and then be part of the problem. Bout like the guy I mentioned that complained about turkey numbers and then went out and shot a bearded hen. I still stand behind increasing population will fix most of our concerns mentioned on this thread. I think our passion means more when it includes action rather than just words. To make noticeable it will have to be regulated but when I have talked to the DNR and legislators about poor deer numbers I let them know I don’t shoot antlerless deer because of it. Be hard for me to have much credibility advocating to those parties to get rid of cell cams when I use them. Never shot a deer because of cell cams but I use them.
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tall@wide
PMA Member
Yes I agree but if a law enforces something then it could stop some people. No doubt if Iowa went to a one buck law then some hunters would just buy their wife or son who doesn’t hunt a tag to use it. As far as cell cameras, it will never be banned on private property. All it would take is one person taking it to court and cell cams would be legal again. The problem comes in because hunters will not police themselves. No way, it’s not happening.
My Minnesota neighbors suddenly showed up once the “big one” here has been moving. And somehow they’ve had tags 3 years in a row….
DMarley83
DMARLEY83
This is much easier said than done. There are so many 130" straight 8s it's very difficult to discern from year to year. When they have certain things that are unique sure but if not lost in the shuffle....
150 Class
Well-Known Member
The state should never legislate to increase age structure. It is not their job to do that. Population control for heard health, yes, and that is simply through the number of antlerless tags sold for specific areas of the state. The rest is up to us.
They already do legislate for age structure. That is why Iowa has been the envy of most other states.
Late gun season. To help age structure
Limit NR tags. To help age structure.
Limit crossbows. To help age structure.
sep0667
Land of the Whitetail
I agree that the best way to increase age class is to increase the population. The more deer on the landscape the more bucks there will be and then more of them will make it to the next season. Ive only ever shot 4 does that I can recall off of private/public ground. I just did the math, this is my 18th year deer hunting. I have shot several off of an urban zone, but I am not going to include that. I have not bought an antlerless tag for outside of the urban zone for a few years now. It makes me cringe a bit when buddies tell me they are out trying to fill doe tags. HUSH program needs to end, its just a dumping ground for guys shooting does just to shoot a doe. I enjoy seeing a lot of deer when I hunt.
tall@wide
PMA Member
Exactly, I did not want to spend time explaining if he didn't already know that.
Steve-O
World Member
Already exists. Just cost $$$$. Pretty awesome technology out there. I don't even have to be sitting there. A.I. algorithms is all it takes.The next technological advancement will be guns that automatically adjust for distance and wind, then fire themselves .
Steve-O
World Member
I don't feel you need to ban them, just need to find a way to not have them not register to a tower. But cell companies make too much money off them they aren't going to "turn off " the capability. Think the easiest way would be to have cell companies delay the relay.
As someone stated. Only time you get data dumps from cell cams is from 8-10pm. Changes the ball game a little. Which can be done.
These do help with age structure but that is not the reason they are in place. I was told years ago that the reason our gun season was initially set for the first weekend of December was so that it didn’t coincide with Fall harvest. Back in the day most corn harvest happened in November and was done by December 1. By luck and to our benefit that pushed gun season to after the rut. Limited NR tags are due to IBA fighting to keep them limited to prevent NR land purchases and leasing. Without the IBA our NR tags would probably be like Illinois and over the counter by now because the IDNR wanted the money for their budget and were in favor of raising the quota several times. Also, the reason we don’t have crossbows in regular archery season is again because the IBA fought to keep them out of our archery season. When every other State was changing their laws to allow crossbows and Iowa was being lobbied hard by the crossbow industry, the IBA fought like hell to keep them out. The IDNR at the time had no opposition to allowing them. Fortunately, we have benefited from both luck with our season structure and from dedicated individuals at the IBA fighting to prevent the sale of our deer resources. But don’t kid yourself, none of these were implemented by the IDNR to promote age structure. Fortunately, most realize the benefits of these regulations because we have seen the other States around us basically destroyed by gun hunting the rut, unlimited NR tags and the addition of crossbows to archery season. Fortunately, we have someone like Jase Elliott, our IDNR deer biologist who understands how all these factors not only benefit the residents of Iowa but also our deer herd. Even though Jase is on our side we have to stay vigilant because there are always those who want to line their own pockets or have their own agendas.
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