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4 Point Disappointment

MN2IAGuy

MN2IAGuy

Active Member
I’ve been a NRLO bowhunter for 20 years and have witnessed the downfall of the NR’s experience created by the increased demand for NR archery tags This is the first time that 4 points (4 years) didn’t get you a license. The current system allows only a small percentage of NR licenses to go to bow hunters. A non-resident gun hunter can get a buck license every second year and a doe license every year in zone 5. Many of the guides that operate in the state are scrabbling to get new hunters because they had assumed the 4 pointers they had would draw. I’ve had a good run but am selling my property. I’ve made some good friends and spent lots of $$$ in the local community since I do a lot of food plotting. I’ve purchased a few of the “Conservation” tags too. They have reached prices most of us can’t justify or afford ($20K). The reasoning that these limits were put in place was to keep land values down and keep property in Iowan‘s hands. It worked for awhile but prices and demand of land has skyrocketed. The Covid effect has re-charged Americans interest in all outdoor activities. The fallout is getting outdoors has gotten so popular that those places/activities are way overcrowded. Land prices have gone crazy because of this and NRLO are buying up more of Iowa‘s hunting land then ever. The low prices of Iowa land combined with all the awareness from TV/media I believe is what really put the pressure on Iowa land. I know in my area many of the hardcore hunters moved in from other states and became residents. “We have met the enemy and it is us”
Thanks for the great memories and great return on my investment!
 
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Alot of folks cancelled travel plans last year because of covid... hence why so many got pushed to this year and didn't draw. Without covid, you would have drawn.
 
There is a post over on Archery Talk about NR's not drawing in Iowa with what many thought was enough points. Some sat on the sidelines last year, not buying a PP due to COVID. They are regretting not buying the point now. The "points creep" is really hitting all states. I walked away from points in Wyoming as it would have taken too long to draw a tag in a good area.

Times are definitely changing. In the last 30 years, lots of the ground around me has been bought up in smaller parcels, mostly locals, looking for recreational ground. Demand is strong.

I know a guy in Ohio who is buying rec ground there for $10K/acre, as that is the going rate. Iowa still might be a bargain compared to some eastern states. Might be time for me to strap on the golden parachute as well.
 
MN2IAGuy said:
The fallout is getting outdoors has gotten so popular that those places/activities are way overcrowded. Land prices have gone crazy because of this and NRLO are buying up more of Iowa‘s hunting land then ever. The low prices of Iowa land combined with all the awareness from TV/media I believe is what really put the pressure on Iowa land.
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Good post. U make some very valid points. Agree or disagree…. Anyone can admit u describe your position well & we have some issues to work on here.
The 2 very simple issues folks cannot dismiss….
1) we still have “celebrity tags” - promoting the state of iowa. Reaching millions of folks around the country “promoting the hunting in iowa”. It’s still a government run program. It has ZERO merit for existing. ZERO!!!!!!!!!!
2) with all the issues you listed & some others…. We have a BOTTLENECK!!!!! 6% of this state is timber/forest!!!!! A tiny fraction of habitat MN, MO, WI, IL, MI, PA, OH, OK, etc have!!!! Folks don’t quite grasp- 2/3rds of the state really doesn’t even have trees!!!!! It’s wide open fields with a few creeks & almost no deer. All the hunting is crammed into the remaining 1/3rd of the state.
The fact that we are running short of opportunities is not complex if folks think through this!!!!

There’s positive things we can do….. quit the promotion of state. Quit with crazy regulation proposals that immediately create more folks wanting to insulate from bad regulations. More crp.
FOLKS NEED TO FIX THEIR OWN DARN STATES!!!!!!!!! Mimic iowa!!!! Then no need for so many NR’s to need to come here!!!!! THAT would solve all these issues!!!!!!!! Even if one state like MO or MN could do this- take huge pressure off this fragile state!!!!!!! IA folks are not traveling to “MI to deer hunt”- on flip side- thousands from MI come here. MO, WI, MN, MI, Etc - could destroy iowa if they got their act together!!!!! The list goes on forever. Stop the insane stuff like politicians & gun lobby in deer regulations. Fight insurance companies that want to kill them all. Stop the politicians that want to do away with forest reserve…. Even NOW- timber is being dozed with high grain prices. Etc etc. it’s a long complex list we could write a small book on. But the obvious easy points should be fixed first!
 
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A 5 year wait for land you own, oooff.... It is too bad this has got out of hand. Land in parts of Iowa was cheap years ago, and that attracted a lot of buyers and they kept coming (many have now stayed and they buy more land).

I don't know how to word it exactly, but the system has created this unusual market, right or wrong.

Good luck to you, hope it all works out.
 
MN2IA, I am sorry to hear this and I hope your next step(s) are positive for you...but I wholeheartedly agree with Skip above. If even ONE of the states (MN, MO, MI) were to adjust their regs to take pressure off of their herd it would have a ripple effect in IA and help to alleviate this crunch. It's a double edged sword right now, and has been for some time, that does not seem to be getting any easier.

I am sure though that you will realize a substantial gain when you sell, so at least that is a positive.
 
Thanks everyone that sent positive and insightly responses! The MN DNR and a majority of the hunters in Minnesota don’t want to give up hunting during the rut with a gun. I think that alone would go a long way to improve the quality of our deer herd (Buck size)

Good luck to everyone this Fall!
I’m still going to be back every 4 or 5 years to bowhunt, (which means two or three more times at my age!)
 
MN2IAGuy said:
Thanks everyone that sent positive and insightly responses! The MN DNR and a majority of the hunters in Minnesota don’t want to give up hunting during the rut with a gun. I think that alone would go a long way to improve the quality of our deer herd (Buck size)

Good luck to everyone this Fall!
I’m still going to be back every 4 or 5 years to bowhunt, (which means two or three more times at my age!)
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I was going to post that as well. We’ve gone down this road before with suggesting they move the gun season back in Minnesota. Large rifle hunting group opposed to it.

The largest deer organization in Minnesota, is the Minnesota Deer Hunters Association and they fight to keep the seasons the same (November 5-9 is typical gun opener )…

Makes for a tough situation if you like to bow hunt . Less success and fewer days to pursue bucks during the rut.,, we don’t however have many NR buying land in our state ?? . Matter of fact I can’t think of any in my county.

Minnesota does have a lot of NR lake shore owners though !
 
Sorry- I can't feel for a non-resident who is upset that other non-residents want to swarm our state. I know tons of IOWA hunters who have lost their hunting ground when rich non-residents came in and bought up the whole area. I wish they would have a 10 year minimum wait between tags for non-residents. That would kill some of the demand. The non-residents buying up your lake shores are not stopping Minnesota residents from fishing that same lake.
 
deerman54 said:
Sorry- I can't feel for a non-resident who is upset that other non-residents want to swarm our state. I know tons of IOWA hunters who have lost their hunting ground when rich non-residents came in and bought up the whole area. I wish they would have a 10 year minimum wait between tags for non-residents. That would kill some of the demand. The non-residents buying up your lake shores are not stopping Minnesota residents from fishing that same lake.
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Other side of coin or argument. I know this is contraversial to some but u also do make some excellent points!!!
I have buddies come down often from WI, MI, MN, etc. They know the system has ruined their own states. They flock to the tiny slice of paradise we have here. The ONLY reason they do it is because their own state is ruined. It’s all regulations & hunter stubbornness in their own states. MI, MN, MO, etc could churn out 10x the amount of big deer that iowa does. If they fixed things. Literally. Iowa is a fraction of their habitat & we churn out 5-10x the giants. How these states can’t see this is mind boggling. The best hope is the younger generation taking control in all these states that ruin their potential. As time goes by- the old timers that are unwilling to advance will be taken over by younger folks who think of management, conservation, balanced age structure & want positive regulations that will result in more opportunities for everyone.
In reality- it’s mind boggling simple…. Copy some of the regulations of the best managed states with the best hunting, age structure & results. Elementary!!! Copy iowa, OH, KS….. just shift the gun season out 2 weeks. The whole Midwest would explode with opportunity if this alone happened!!!!
 
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deerman54 said:
Sorry- I can't feel for a non-resident who is upset that other non-residents want to swarm our state. I know tons of IOWA hunters who have lost their hunting ground when rich non-residents came in and bought up the whole area. I wish they would have a 10 year minimum wait between tags for non-residents. That would kill some of the demand. The non-residents buying up your lake shores are not stopping Minnesota residents from fishing that same lake.
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But maybe I wanted that lake lot, but rich out of stater bought it? See how that works. It’s the USA, you can’t control who buys land in other states.

What if Colorado or Wyoming had a ten year wait for tags for Iowa residents?
 
Hardwood11 said:
What if Colorado or Wyoming had a ten year wait for tags for Iowa residents?
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They kind of do. I left 3 PP on the table in Wyoming when I quit. I heard some areas in Colorado take 16 points. Point creep is real. Check out Arizona, insane the number of points needed in some areas. I don't probably have enough life expectancy left to draw certain tags in those states or else I'll be out there with a walker..... Not sure what the solution is. Demand outstrips supply.
 
Hardwood11 said:
Ok

But maybe I wanted that lake lot, but rich out of stater bought it? See how that works. It’s the USA, you can’t control who buys land in other states.

What if Colorado or Wyoming had a ten year wait for tags for Iowa residents?
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They do. I just drew tags in Wyoming that each took 0 or 1 preference point within the last 6 to 8 years. They now take 4 and 9 points to draw.
 
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It’s crazy how long some buddies wait for “xyz draw” on these hard to get elk units. Multiple states. Or how hard to get on giant moose. Or sheep, etc. certain tags they wait a lifetime for.
Iowa has such little supply & such huge demand. I can see it mimicking the hardest draw areas for elk if other states don’t get their crap together. One of the “great potential states” has to change in next 10 years. MO or MN or WI would be the prime 3 states the explode if they would get their heads outta their rear ends. Even IN & MI - both those states would destroy what iowa produces if their regulations mirrored iowa.

The other side of this…. If we ruin our deer hunting by trashing the regulations…. Maybe the time needed to draw a tag will decrease. I sure don’t want to find out though. ;).
 
Hardwood11 said:
But maybe I wanted that lake lot, but rich out of stater bought it? See how that works. It’s the USA, you can’t control who buys land in other states.

What if Colorado or Wyoming had a ten year wait for tags for Iowa residents?
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But you didn’t read his entire post. Even though that non resident owns that lake front property, you’re still allowed to fish that lake. The outdoor opportunity is still there. It’s very easy for guys on the outside (non resident) to side with another non resident

And yes iowa can most certainly control who buys land. Look at the start of this thread. That exact reason is the reason this fella is selling his land. We continue to make it harder for you non residents and maybe you’ll go away……..
 
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Muddyrem said:
But you didn’t read his entire post. Even though that non resident owns that lake front property, you’re still allowed to fish that lake. The outdoor opportunity is still there. It’s very easy for guys on the outside (non resident) to side with another non resident

And yes iowa can most certainly control who buys land. Look at the start of this thread. That exact reason is the reason this fella is selling his land. We continue to make it harder for you non residents and maybe you’ll go away……..
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Just an FYI from my perspective...the NR's that post here are good guys, several of them have been posting here for many years. They may occasionally let a little frustration show, but they "know" too that Iowa is as good as it is because of the restrictive regs.
 
Next to my farm in Southern Iowa a group of non-residents bought up a block of 4,000 acres. It has almost eliminated all locals from hunting. They are really nice guys and would never do any illegal act. They never shoot does which has greatly increased the herd so of course every farmer in the area is irate with the damage even the ones who lease farm ground from these guys. It has created a poaching mecca for the locals. We find dead bucks every year that were obviously shot from the road and who knows how many are hauled out at night. Our hunting during the rut is terrible compared to what it used to be. The bucks don't have to travel to find their next doe. These same situations around the state just add fuel to the fire for the farmer groups and insurance companies to wipe out the deer herd. The Iowa deer herd belongs to all Iowa residents and the Iowa DNR is doing everything possible to protect it for Iowans.
 
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