Cooter
Active Member
My suggestion is to contact the DNR and voice your opinion.
https://www.iowadnr.gov/Contact-Iowa-DNR
https://www.iowadnr.gov/Contact-Iowa-DNR
rutnstrut
PMA Member
So would that make a 12g slug gun a pistol if its shot 1 handed or not from the shoulder???
I realize what youre saying and Im just playing devils advocate... But just because you dont want to do it or dont like it doesnt mean nobody else should be able to do it. I get the whole slippery slope argument but this isnt a new law its been like this for several years excluding the 1yr the DNR snuck in code and kept it secret and didnt bother advertising the rule change.
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Exactly.
Nor do I believe that shotguns made Iowa bucks grow big antlers.
*Available nutrition (tens of thousands of acres of corn),
*soil chemistry,
*open fields where savvy deer can escape and see danger far off (even far exceeding the range of the Evil 450 Bushmaster),
*dense woods patches (I’ve watched big bucks lay down behind a brush pile while hunters walk past)
*dense hunters (not density in numbers, but the hunters themselves)
*low urbanization,
*genetics
*...and many other factors all contribute to the quality of the deer herd.
I hate when I see people saying “If we have rifles, we won’t have any deer left!” Well, one hunter with one license can still only kill one deer. If you don’t want that deer killed, don’t issue the license. Or make it a doe tag. The math is really pretty simple. If a pistol with an arm brace is a pistol, then it’s a pistol.
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rutnstrut
PMA Member
Dont take my argument wrong... Im not wanting it to open more doors for more relaxed laws... Im just simply saying its not a new law nor does it allow anymore new calibers. Id still personally hate to see all centerfire rifles allowed. I own centerfire rifles and if they were allowed Id use them, but that doesnt mean I want it to come to that. AR pistols as theyre allowed now arent much different than other big bore revolvers that are also allowed... Ya some have braces and that makes them easier to shoot accurately but so do scopes or red dot and shooting sticks when used with a revolver or a Thompson encore/contender pistol or other muzzys being used... We could argue this back and fourth for days but who cares... If its legal go ahead and use it if you want and if you dont want to then dont but dont worry about what everyone else decides to use as long as youre all playing with the same rules it shouldnt matter
Yes. Absolutely. Agree with all you said. I don’t have an AR ‘pistol’ and I don’t want one. I do hunt with a 450 Bushmaster rifle. Last season and again this season; one shot - one deer. Not much different than shotgun days, just WAY more accurate. Neither one was more than 150 yards, which I’ve done numerous times with muzzleloaders. I’m not sure I’d take a 200 yard shot, I’m not that good. But out to 150, my Bushy harvests the same deer I would have killed anyway, but fare more efficiently.
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Cooter
Active Member
So you’re saying that all the other states around us don’t have the same habitat as we do but have less quality deer just by luck? We got lucky when the farmers wanted dear season in December so they could get the crops out first. There are states that should have bigger and better deer than Iowa. Their laws and choices make them the way they are. You might as well just make the shotgun season from the first weekend in December to January 10. If you don’t think this is going to effect the deer in Iowa you are one of the dense hunters that as mentioned earlier.
Swampy_44
Member
I think by allowing only shotguns up too this point, the vast majority of big deer get away during shotgun drives. Throw in a flat shooting 270. Or 30-06 or whatever. If you see it, it has alot more chance of dying.
Yes. Which is why I’m not at all in favor of expanding the rifle allowance. The accuracy and performance of cartridges like 45-70 Govt, 450 Bushmaster, and 350 Legend make accurate shots out to 200 yards a possibility, without the more extreme ranges of the rifles you mention. There’s no need to shoot at Iowa deer with rifles like .338 Win Mag and .300 Wby out to 400 and 500 yards.
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Hmm. Iowa plants 12 million acres of corn, Minnesota 7 million, and Missouri 3 million. Iowa also produces more per acre than either of them and also Indiana and Ohio. Iowa’s population density is 55 people per square mile and Illinois is 230 people per square mile. Shall we continue, or do you get the picture? How is it that any of these states “should have bigger and better deer than Iowa”? None of the Midwest states look anything like Iowa in many of the ways that positively affect game populations. Also, the dearth of good bucks in places like Illinois, Ohio, southern Minnesota, and Indiana happened while they were shotgun-only states. You’re not looking at this logically. I’m starting to wonder if you’re one of those guys who limber up with gramp’s trusty old Remington 1100, flinging five quick shots at a running doe and sending everyone in the county running former cover...?
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whitetail_obsession
Active Member
Just my opinion but I agree other states do have the ability to be better than Iowa but Iowa's regulations have helped push it past other states. Not allowing gun hunting in the rut is huge. Think about deer drives with a hot doe and you can easily see how a big buck is more likely to find danger. Iowa also doesn't have the habitat other states do. Corn doesn't help once it's cut so habitat can be removed very easily in that case. Limiting tags to non residents is another big one for maintaining quality. Iowa doesn't have the habitat to support the number of hunters these other states have. Finally limiting rifle cartridges helps too for reasons mentioned above. More deer survive with a shotgun vs what we have now. With that said I like the ability of hunters to accurately harvest deer with the new cartridges but still be somewhat limited in effective distance. I wouldn't be in support of more calibers. If you don't think centerfire cartridges would make a difference you're wrong. Just ask people in Buffalo County WI what happened to quality once they switched from shotgun to centerfire. That area just like Iowa will always produce big bucks but it definitely makes it harder. Iowa is great the way it is. Lawmakers need to just leave it alone. There's still good quality and people have plenty of ways to fill the freezer if they want with a respectable deer herd. I've lived in other states and trust me you don't want to be them.
There is a reason Iowa allows party hunting and now it is a culture here. Throw rifles into the mix and make party hunting illegal, maybe a trade-off but I'm guessing most gun groups don't want that trade. If you want to see what adding rifles to the mix does go to Missouri. Yes the rifle is more efficient but only to its max rang which is easily double a muzzy or slug gun. Limiting the effective range with muzzleloaders and slug guns keeps deer alive and I don't think many on here are interested in increasing the harvest numbers. There is a reason Iowa has good quality deer both from trophy quality and opportunity and not allowing rifles is part of that equation. How many on here would sign up for rifles if you know the trophy quality would go down, I'd guess not many.
No offense but if you REALLY believe this I now understand why this is even being discussed. Look at bordering states to Iowa that allow rifles. My guess is you will find that the things on your list don't stop at the state lines but trophy quality does!!
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
Buck survival is 5x better in Iowa compared to Minnesota. The main reason is the gun season is Nov 7-15 (terrible) timing. Think of how many Iowa bucks you see within 100 yards on those dates. They’d be dead on many properties.
Having a December gun season is the ticket for you guys. Rifles would not help, that would lower Iowa as a top buck state.
The cover in Minnesota can be excellent, in many cases better than Iowa. The bucks are just very vulnerable due to the timing of the gun season and much of the state is rifle.
Having a December gun season is the ticket for you guys. Rifles would not help, that would lower Iowa as a top buck state.
The cover in Minnesota can be excellent, in many cases better than Iowa. The bucks are just very vulnerable due to the timing of the gun season and much of the state is rifle.
Cooter
Active Member
Chicago-St Louis..... so they make up the population densities. I’ve shot gun hunted twice in my life. I pheasant hunted with my old mans 1100 back in the 80s. I’ve never shot at any running deer. Sounds like you’re still wet behind the ears. They have better cover to food ratio than Iowa in the states you mentioned. Look at parts of Iowa that is all corn fields with no cover. Are the extra doe tags in those counties. NOPE. So what does that say?
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Hah. Ok. You’re a bow hunter. Sorry about the running doe crack. This thread was about AR pistols during late muzzle. I don’t think there will ever be enough people, hunting that way, willing to brave the cold to significantly impact the population. I typically have half the county to myself during late muzzle- and I’m not about to give up the range and accuracy of my .50 for a pistol. Even so, I don’t have and don’t want an AR pistol. I also don’t want Iowa to ever legalize general rifle hunting (straight-walls are just fine). I say that leaving the rut hunt to you primitive hunters is also fine and there’s no need for modern arms before December.
But launching cannonballs out of a pheasant gun is a crappy way to hunt deer. Iowa could’ve solved the whole mess by making it single shot or bolt gun only.
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Cooter
Active Member
I am a hunter that respects this great resource. I have hunted every season but anterless. That is only because of availability.
I agree that these are better guns than shotguns to take deer with. I took a doe with my 47/70 this year. I have a 450BM that I plan on using next year.
You may prefer to use your 50 muzzy that’s great. But other guys don’t like them. These AR pistols have pretty much the same effective range as your muzzy with multiple shots. They are gaining popularity very quickly. The 450 and 50 have some draw backs. More recoil than some want with just a brace and cost of ammo. With the introduction of the 350 legend that mitigates both those issues. Go look at other social media websites and you’ll see the momentum it’s gaining. It has and effective range of 200 yards and some are pushing past that. That is not much different than guys slinging slugs imo. A gun that is shouldered with multiple shots should not be in late muzzleloader season.
Fishbonker
Life Member
Can you imagine the litany of legislative proposals that would have been brought forth over the years by non hunting groups representing big business to try and get that changed? Wait, isn't that what's happening now?
We always want more than we have whether we need it or not.
It is unfortunate that the intent of a law is often lost over time.
I said earlier in this thread that Pennsylvania does not allow auto-loaders. Someone said I’m wrong, and that they’ve allowed them including AR’s. That is actually incorrect:
https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/ne...nia-to-continue-ban-for-big-game-hunting.html
I was willing to believe him because I haven’t hunted Pennsylvania for several years, but Pennsylvania has, in fact, successfully fended off the push for autos. I see no reason why, when they changed the law so drastically as to allow center-fire rifles, Iowa couldn’t have included a prohibition against semi-autos. All they did was copy Michigan on the cartridge allowance, anyway. While they’re letting other states write our game laws, why not copy Pennsylvania while they’re at it?
To be sure, I love my Bushy, and building an upper was way cheaper than buying a whole rifle. But if autos weren’t allowed, I’d have gotten a bolt gun instead. Eventually I will anyway because I don’t like carrying an AR- too many catch points and things sticking out all over it. My 350 Legend also did very well this year but, again, if it weren’t for the economy of building an upper and being allowed to use an AR, I would have gotten a Ruger bolt action rifle.
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https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/ne...nia-to-continue-ban-for-big-game-hunting.html
I was willing to believe him because I haven’t hunted Pennsylvania for several years, but Pennsylvania has, in fact, successfully fended off the push for autos. I see no reason why, when they changed the law so drastically as to allow center-fire rifles, Iowa couldn’t have included a prohibition against semi-autos. All they did was copy Michigan on the cartridge allowance, anyway. While they’re letting other states write our game laws, why not copy Pennsylvania while they’re at it?
To be sure, I love my Bushy, and building an upper was way cheaper than buying a whole rifle. But if autos weren’t allowed, I’d have gotten a bolt gun instead. Eventually I will anyway because I don’t like carrying an AR- too many catch points and things sticking out all over it. My 350 Legend also did very well this year but, again, if it weren’t for the economy of building an upper and being allowed to use an AR, I would have gotten a Ruger bolt action rifle.
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seven twenty
PMA Member
Shouldering a brace makes the weapon illegal as a pistol for late muzzy. Once you shoulder it, it becomes an SBR.
meyeri
PMA Member
Last memo I saw, the ATF disagreed. The DNR can't determine what constitutes a pistol or an SBR. All they have to do is make restrictions just like they limit calibers during the shotgun seasons.
If the DNR wants to stop AR pistols all they have to do is limit overall weapon length or barrel lengths. For instance if you say that barrels have to be longer than 4", but no longer than 6" then you'd pretty much eliminate AR pistols. Shortest barrel length I've seen is 7.5". I'm sure some moron could also on a shorter barrel, but those ballistics would be garbage.
My personal opinion is that these modern smokeless rifles are worse. At this rate single shot high power rifles will be legal in the next decade.
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