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Advice on a muzzleloader

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Wildlifexpressions64

Member
Hey fella's, i live here in western ky and was wantin some of yaws advice on whats a good muzzleloader and resonable priced. We have 2 muzzleload seasons, the early season is 2 days then in december it's in for 7 or 8 days. I'm wantin a muzzleloader that shoots goos and is accurate. I like the triumps but dont see spending that much for no longer then our season is..anyalso what kind of scope would yaw prefer? I dont want to spend no 5 or 600 for just the gun if we didnt have rifle season and if we jus had shotgun/muzzleloader i wouldnt mind spending that much. Thanks fellas.
 
I have a CVA Accura V2, absolutely love it. Im shooting 250gr Barnes TEZ's with 2 whitehot pellets and can have a 3 shot group you can cover with a half dollar at 100yds and about a 2.5" group at 200yds. Wanting to change to Blackhorn 209 but its hard to change a group with a group like that
 
I vote CVA Accura V2 as well. And since nobody touched on optics I'll throw out my opinion. I'm not sure if you guys have Scheels stores down there or not, but they make very good optics for the money. They come with a lifetime warranty I believe and are just as clear as any Bushnell or Nikon in their price range.
 
I would recommend Thompson Center Omega Z5 around 200 to 300 $

Why I recommend it>

I only buy quality items not because my pockets are that deep high price is not always quality. I did my own research for myself & after much of that I found what I was looking for. I found tack driving accuracy out to 100+ yards & a Quality gun that will last for years. I was worried about the reputation of the Co I would buy from solely based on safety of the product. My safety was important to me. I in no way said other inlines are not safe after all safety is the operators number one job only they control what takes place or what they choose to shoot. I ruled out CVA for many reasons they did not offer what I want along with many others that did not meet my high standards & expectations. They put profits first in the past & play dirty today at the expense of others this might interest you http://www.itcblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/thompson.swcomplaint.pdf In the past the expense was to the customer many life's destroyed or changed forever after using there product.

I would recommend a inline 209 ignition non break action type of gun such as the TC Omega or TC Omega Z5. Why? more accurate. Why? No hinge pin to introduce poi or point of impact change under recoil. This is also why the most accurate rifles have a fixed barrel position & free floated such as a bolt action rifle.

The gun is not imported after manufacture from Spain for sale in USA it's design is overall more accurate down range. It is made of higher quality material be it blued barrel or stainless steel. Why? The steel is imported into the USA & held to US steel grade scale & proofed here under strict rules & regulations. Spain uses a different scale system & proofing system in Spain then imports the finished product for sale in USA. Bergara barrels is in Spain 416 SS in Spain is far different to what we would call 416 SS here at home.

The USA has far more gun makers of small arms then any other place in the world. Far more advanced methods & strict regulation we Americans love red tape. No wonder outsiders only import product never set up shop here no profit in it with all that red tape.

I just take pride in dealing with a reputable company & honest or well as honest as it can get in the arms biz. I also take pride in supporting american jobs here at home with a us based co & workers.

The plus for me in this all the above & quality + Accuracy that will last. The con cost vs features or in other words you pay more for quality but get less features as compared to CVA. As with most guns you get what you pay for. I did not need a free scope or all the other bells n stuff. I needed a born performer tried n true. I have had so many guys try to buy this gun from me it is highly sought after. I will pass it down to my son will never sell it. if you would like to see my full setup check it out. http://www.youtube.com/user/MidwestProwler it's under videos. Hope this helps & the CVA guys don't eat me alive :D This is just my opinion. Note my gun is fully upgraded Omega version but I also own the Z5 same gun just less bells n stuff
 
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Omegas are okay but my Optima or V2 Accura will wipe it clean. You can keep that non conical shooting barrel that has screwed up QLA's at the end of the barrel that TC refuses to shoot. No, you Dont gotta love that false muzzle! Its a huge error on TC's part and Conical shooters swear at them for doing it.

Get ready for change TC boys, S&W is running them into the ground and they've already stopped production on the Hawken.

CVA doesn't play dirty, they make a quality muzzleloader for a great price and stick with a lifetime warranty on it. The triggers are also a huge update over what TC puts on their Encore platform.

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My brother in laws 6x6 muley taken with a cva wolf, 100gr bh209, 250gr Thor conical.
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Im very surprised at all the love for the Accura V2 Lol, I have one as well and its perfect for open sight hunting like we have here in CO. My brother actually got a doe with his this year with 100gr bh209, cci 209m primer and 250gr Thor conical. Perfect shot to, I was watching from the side when he shot and that sucker just dropped like a sack of flour.
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Exit hole
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If CVA did not play dirty why is it that there is a open complaint with the international trade commission. http://www.itcblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/thompson.swcomplaint.pdf Note this is not just a complaint from Thompson Center Arms co. Knight & many other highly respected are listed here in this complaint. If I had to guess who is running them into the ground I would guess CVA it's all in the pdf patent infringement. CVA is not calling it QLA but the new guns have it. Break action style inline patent infringement. interchangeable barrel patent infringement the list goes on pre 97 guns blowing up. There is a reason the guns cost less to buy. I understand you may have not been able to read the pdf this has been fixed sorry about that.:way: Why are cva guns made overseas then imported here for sale. It's just to costly to set up here in the usa with us workers & all the red tape - regs no profit in it. Patent infringement is not the only thing just the start of many things they are getting away with. Like I said Spain steel grade scale very different to USA. Proofing very different also. This Co did not changes hands after the pre 97 guns blowing up just names & moved the old CEO plus a few others to a different job title. But if your gun is accurate & you have faith in the Co & product safety. Who am I to tell you different you will still view it as a ford vs chevy dilemma I just see more to it then that.

P.S. that CVA lifetime warranty is non transferable unlike TC hints higher resale vale of TC
 
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I have an M44 Mosin Nagant made in 1941 that has a QLA on it :D TC copy the Russians? Personally TC needs to ditch their sloppy QLA as its garbage.

CVA Steel is Winchester grade steel these days, you are obviously a rookie and follow the randy wakeman write ups.

TC, knights do NOT proof test every rifle.

Why isn't TC suing E Arthur Brown for making barrels for the Encores? Because TC wanted to hit their main competitors, CVA & Traditions.

TC had Sharron barrels blowing up in the 70's. Actually, what gun company hasn't had barrels blow up? Muzzleloaders are a lot more sensitive as any idgit can load whatever he wants down the bore and when it explodes, they always try to blame the product.
 
Could you quote the steel chemical composition from cva? I can from TC as far as Randy goes no this was my own independent research. If randy was pulling for any Co It would be savage hints the 10 ML-II. A competitor of TC & CVA arms last I checked. TC pioneered the inline muzzleloader & patented many innovations. The patents are still active today. CVA is using Winchester steel that's news to me http://www.cva.com/CVA-company.php Quote Every barrel that we use today is also made in Bergara at the BERGARA BARRELS factory,which, like CVA, is wholly owned by our parent company. Plus, every CVA rifle component, whether manufactured on-site or sourced from other manufacturers, is produced under strict ISO-9001 quality standards to ensure consistency as well as quality. Here is some reading about ISO nothing to be proud of it was forced on them ISO 9001 is the internationally recognised standard for the quality management of businesses found here http://www.isoqar.com/iso9001/qualintro.htm as you can quickly see has nothing to do with steel quality.

P.S. no Co proof test em all but TC test more then Spain requires much more.
 
Midwestprowler said:
P.S. that CVA lifetime warranty is non transferable unlike TC hints higher resale vale of TC
Click to expand...

Incorrect. Ive dealt with CVA since i was 14 years old, they will replace the gun and repair it even if you are NOT the original owner.
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Directly off the site,
LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY DETAILS

This warranty is granted by Thompson/Center Arms Company,Inc. This warranty, which shall last for the Lifetime of the original owner of any factory finished firearm, is established by the return of the Thompson/Center Arms authorized warranty card or registering online at http://www.tcarms.com/customerService/warranty.php within thirty (30) days of purchase of such firearm. With respect to such firearm, this warranty supersedes any and all other warranties.


Thompson/Center Arms firearms are warranted to be free from defects in material and workmanship. Any such defects of which Thompson/Center Arms receives written notice by the original owner will be remedied by Thompson/Center Arms without charge within a reasonable time after such notification and delivery of the firearm as provided below.


Warranty claims (in writing) and the firearm or part thereof concerned should be delivered, postage prepaid, to the factory at Smith & Wesson, 2100 Roosevelt Ave., Springfield, MA 01104 Attn: Service Department. In addition, a copy of the bill of sale in the owner’s name, or, where applicable, a copy of ATF Form 4473 indicating date of purchase must be included. Please include your physical address and phone number. It is important that the owner comply with all applicable federal, state and local laws and regulations in the shipment of firearms to Thompson/Center Arms.
Warranty claims should state the model and, where applicable, the serial number of the firearm concerned and the description of the difficulty experienced. It is recommended that shipments be insured by the owner, since Thompson/Center Arms will accept no responsibility for loss or damage in transit. Transportation and insurance charges for return to the owner will be paid by Thompson/Center Arms if the claim is covered by this warranty.


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i don't believe most of us buy guns for their re-sale value, its not like an antique car, nor do modern muzzleloaders gain in value as do the traditional hand built pieces of art muzzleloaders.
 
Go to Bellm TC's, all the info on the hardness of the Bergara barrels is on there. You can see he makes a living fixing what TC can not.

26-27rc stainless - Comparable to Kreiger and Shilen Centerfire barrels.
 
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http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/current/Omega_Manual_09-30-2012.pdf

page 41 quote from current manual This warranty is granted by Thompson/Center Arms. This warranty, which shall last for the Lifetime of the original owner of any
factory finished firearm, < not sure what warranty you got there but this one is the current one for the Omega. The provided card for warranty even has option to transfer it if sold has a place for buyers details.:D

I'll just agree to disagree I just love to research things & feel I got the best bang for my hard earned cash & give back to my country by supporting us based co & jobs plus economy.
I'm no great debater this could last forever lol so I will gracefully step away from the debate we have started. You win your right well debated
 
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