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Appanoose Co? Deep analysis- too much!

Sligh1

Sligh1

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Ok, so I can hunt one of my buddy's places in Appanoose county next year. He's not a big deer hunter at all, don't know how good the neighborhood is. Here's a dumb thought from someone that spends way too much wasted time thinking of where big deer are?!?!?!.....

On average, why don't I hear alot about Appanoose county? Of the SOUTHERN TIER of counties, seems like that area gets a lot of giants from all the big name counties: Monroe, Wayne, Decatur, Davis, Van Buren, etc- you hear and see giants all the time coming from those areas. The county right in the midst- Appanoose, you just don't hear a lot about. I mean, is this in my imagination OR is there something to this? Do you all have a solid feeling that Appanoose gets too much pressure on average, too rough of land, not the genetics, etc?!?!?!? OR, am I just totally wrong and it's just as good as the other top counties you see giants out of? Absolute monsters with consistency, like 200" deer and seems like it's a stud producing county with consistency? Does it seem to get massacred worse than other rural counties during shotgun? Deer #'s? *I've been to some counties that are actually quiet during shotgun and others that seem to have a whole Army out to kill everything- sounds like a war.

I'm talking averages. Everyone knows it's neighborhood dependent. BUT, if this is an average property I can hunt, am I spending good effort making the extra driving and time there when I could go to a few other spots?

In reality I don't think this post is going to drive 50 new guys to Appanoose county if people say it's good. Everyone and their brother knows anywhere in Southern IA is good and just depends on where they can get permission. Maybe it's a sleeper and I don't intend to flock people there (this thread won't do that, I assure you!) or maybe it's not recognized for good reason?

This land is average size, seems average deer #'s in average neighborhood - will be sharing land with 1 or 2 other guys which is cool with me, probably not hunt a ton but spend some time scouting, hanging, driving to and some later season hunting I'd say. In Appanoose BUT just want some thoughts from others who are mentally ill like me and think too much about this stuff. thanks! :)
 
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Doesn't matter what's in the county, it only matters what is in front of your stand. The only way to know is to get some cameras up or start sitting out there.
 
See, I don't agree, if I go to Michigan, I know I won't see a big buck in front of my stand. If I hunt NW Iowa VS SE IA- I know there's going to be a big difference on average and I have an immensely better chance at having a big deer in front of my stand in SE IA.
 
I have seen more big deer in appanoose county than you could shake two sticks at. I just think nobody can pronounce it :)
 
I think it depends what part of appanoose county you are talking about.there is a ton of public ground in appanoose county.if you are in the ne corner you are getting close to alot of managed ground or leased ground.I think that it seems around me that 200 inch deer are area specific,I know certain areas that produce them and other areas managed or not just dont seem to have them.If the genetics are not there good luck with a 200 incher.I would like to know the percent of wild deer that actually ever had the potential to grow 200 inches of antler.
 
I agree that it depends on the county to a point of topography, habitat, pressure, etc. When i come down from WI, there are some areas i never see any deer. it doesn't even look "deery" if you know what i mean. once i get to a certain area i start to see deer, but the habitat and terrain looks like it would hold deer. Diff parts of the state have better areas to hold more deer and better deer. imo. Same as in wi. some areas are loaded and some not. It could be a diff of a mile or two.
 
jclaws said:
If the genetics are not there good luck with a 200 incher.I would like to know the percent of wild deer that actually ever had the potential to grow 200 inches of antler.
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I too am curious about this, it is my unscientific opinion that some bucks, even if they do survive until their 5th, 6th or 7th year, are just never going to be 180+, let alone 200". Now it is also true that a buck will never be a 200"er if he is shot when he is a 140", but that is another discussion. :grin:

One of the more well known bucks in our neighborhood was harvested a couple of years ago and his rack, while still very impressive, scored right around 170". I think he had to have been at least 6 years old when he went down, possibly 7, but to me he was not likely to grow a bigger rack than he did that year. The year he was killed and his previous years sheds were pretty close to identical, he might have added 5" or so, but I sure don't see where he was going to break 200".

I would guess that only about 10%-20% of the bucks can even grow much past 180", even if they lived to be 8 or 9 years old. Actually, I also think that about 10%-20% of them will top out around 145"-150" no matter how old they get. I am talking about free range deer that are healthy and all, but not stress free, pen raised bucks on special diets. I would envision that the same deer living in a pen and on a special diet would grow around 50% more antler in any given year.

I am curious what others think about on this, my thoughts are not necessarily scientific, but by watching some bucks grow up "on camera" and other field observations throught the years, it is what I think at this point.
 
I like your thoughts Daver,
I agree with you. habitat, nutrition, and genes all have to be there. There are some deer on here that everyone says that they are TOO YOUNG, but they have 150" rack. The flip side is the buck with a rack of 140" and he is 5.5 years old. Some deer will grow bigger and some will top out with a thick, stubby rack that doesn't score worth a crap. One problem with the just going by score. could be shooting a young deer with one heck of a rack and passing one you should be shooting.
 
Interesting thoughts that we also discuss a lot being deer hunting nerds. Genetics have such a huge roll and genetics are so different from one neighborhood to the next. I hunted a few farms in one area that I NEVER saw a deer over 160" in 8 years of hunting there and I assure you I saw several mature bucks. I have another area about 10 miles away that seemed to produce the genetics to consistently produce 180+ to 220" freaks. Genetics & probably nutrition/stress were totally different. You see those variations all over IA. There's a few areas in IA that I can't believe how many 200" deer come from (you probably know where I'm referring to) and other areas that rarely hit the radar.

Any time you can get deer from 5 to 9 years of age, I'm excited to hunt those areas, I'll hunt the stubby freak-show 8 year old 160 ten point anyday BUT I sure like being in areas where I see 165" 3 year olds like I've seen (and don't shoot). Deer you know that if allowed to get to 5.5-8.5 will be well over 200. Interesting thoughts.
 
Daver I think you're right on. But in my mind, saying that 10-20% of bucks have the potential to reach 180 might even be a liberal estimate. That's a lot of bone! Most of the time it takes a fair amount of "junk" to hit 180, which is probably mostly dependent on genetics. You just don't see a ton of clean racks hit that mark. Where I hunt, most racks are pretty clean, and a lot of mature deer never get past 8 or 9 points. Their frames can be monstrous but a 180 is a rarity, though there has been a few oddball super giants over the years... Interesting discussion.

Sligh, I actually hear quite a bit about Appanoose but it's likely due to the fact that I know a few guys that hunt the county pretty hard.
 
Mid 150 will be the max in my area for better than 90% of the mature deer taken. A lot of them barely break the 140 mark. I study deer in my area year round and can say I have only seen 1 deer that would break the 200 mark in the last 5 years, a couple in the 180 range and a maybe a dozen or so that would be over the 170-180 mark.
 
There's a reason why that county is some of the cheapest land in the state. Alot of poor soil and rough cattle ground from what I have seen. I am sure there are big deer down there but in areas that seem to be poorer quality soil I have seen fewer big bucks.
 
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Iowa

Sligh: From an outsider looking in, I checked out many counties before purchasing a farm in Iowa. I looked for cheaper land that had CRP/crop income but had potential to be improved with habitat/food plots.

I heard many glowing reports on counties you mentioned. I never heard much about Ringgold, Taylor, Union and Appanoose. However, after looking at properties in those counties, I was amazed at the quality and the locals shoot many nice bucks, but do not share the photos with many outside of their own party or family.

Taylor for example, is a real sleeper, as you know, and Ringgold is where my farm is now and it has plenty of big bucks with 200 inch potential. I do not know much about Appanoose, but I am sure it is as good as any in that part of the state.
 
I will agree it is very area dependent down there. When I lived down there in college I used to go shining every night. There was definitely area that held great deer and other areas where you would never see anything good. It may only be a few mile difference between big and not so big.
 
Scott said:
There's a reason why that county is some of the cheapest land in the state. Alot of poor soil and rough cattle ground from what I have seen. I am sure there are big deer down there but in areas that seem to be poorer quality soil I have seen fewer big bucks.
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The mean corn suitability rating (CSR) for Appanoose County is 36, Decatur 40, Van Buren 38, Davis 42, Wayne 42, Allamakee 44, and Clayton 51. Most counties in Iowa have a (mean) CSR over 60 and some go as high as 85 CSR.

If antler size was determined by better soil quality than the Southern two tiers of Iowa and Northeast Iowa should have the smallest racked deer in the State. These two areas of Iowa produce some of the largest deer because they have the timber habitat and the deer are more likely to reach the age of 4.5+. Age, genetics and food are all that matters. Genetics can vary greatly in any township let alone in a county. Hunters can allow deer to reach upper age classes by passing them at younger ages and landowners can affect food. I would argue that food is not a big issue in Iowa due to row crop/alfalfa production existing in every rural township in the State. If your goal is to shoot a 200" or bigger than you better concentrate you efforts in areas that have produced 200" previously. I look at 200" as a pipe dream for 99.9% of hunters unless you manage huge tracts of contiguous land with great genetics or just get lucky. Lee Lakowsky manages over 4000 acres has never killed a 200" that I know of and Mark Drury managed several thousand acres and has never topped 200" that I know of and Don Kisky has been managing thousands of acres of land in southern Iowa for over 20+ years and I think he has killed one. Remember these guy manage huge tracts of prime habitat with all the food plots you could ever want. Not to mention hunt every single day of the season and between all of them have one 200" to their credit. I would not get hooked on the hunt for 200" but rather for mature deer. Otherwise your gonna set yourself up for disappointment because you can hunt for 100 lifetimes and never even get the opportunity at a 200".

There are big bucks killed every year in most of counties in Iowa including in Appanoose. Some counties just get more advertising than others. I have a friend who would go shotgun hunting in Appanoose with a group of 12-15 guys each year. They would kill two or three 170"-190" class bucks every year. I can gaurantee you that none of these deer were ever entered into the record books or posted online. I'll just say I've seen the pictures and Appanoose has big deer just most don't get advertised. My friend quit going a several years ago because they had lost so much access to ground. They use to have access to over six thousand acres to push/hunt in 2-3 days. Now my friend says the group is down to less than 2 thousand acres and has 8-10 guys that still hunt. Most of the group is now locals. Now they maybe get one 170"+ buck per year. Appanoose is not far from Davis and Van Buren where leasing and NR landownership is extremely high. I have heard that Appanoose is approaching or crossed the 50% NR landownership mark. The locals in Southern Iowa that still have access to good land have learned to keep their mouths shut about the deer that they see and kill.
 
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Heres how i see it. I live in Warren county and it always seems we get our crops out on average much sooner than they do down in SE. I know the soil down there is not worth a damn. My hypothesis is that the soil does not have drow in the SE like it does in Central Iowa. We are seed dealers so I get to talk to a lot of farmers from multiple counties around me. It always seems we get into the feild a week earlier than the farmers from Clark, Lucas, Decator, Wayne etc. They are always complaining to us about how wet it always is. That automaticaly puts them behind us so they have to wait longer to take the crop out, and when you combine a week later in the year you risk getting snowed out. So on average I think the deer In SE have more opertunity to easy food and cover to get away from shotgun seasons.

For another example we have a farmer just a mile south of us who most of the time does not get his crops out until march. The deer just a mile south of me are on average have substancialy larger antlers.

Now when we talk about Clayton and Allemake we are talking about counties with huge amounts of timber and ridges. There are a lot of places for those young bucks to grow older and larger. Throw in a little good genetics and you have a lot of great deer up there.

All in all I think genetics has the biggest impact on how big a deer gets, But Maturaty and proper nutrition always helps.
 
IQDMA and wtj both make some great points. That's the kind of deep analysis that goes through my nerd deer hunting brain often.
IQDMA, I will add, I think all counties in southern IA have the groups that keep quiet, don't turn in bucks for records and shoot giant deer- happens in all of em. I do think there's some counties though that produce far more 200" deer and counties that have too many sections where deer can't top out past 160. Even if we're talking 180" deer, I've been on sections (not counties) that I think it would be a miracle to get a mature buck to grow that head-set VS other sections where I know there's a 180-200" every single year- both have areas have mature bucks. Also- If a mature buck scoring 230" is shot in ANY county, you generally hear about it though.

You guys are darn right about soil quality. And you also do a nice job weighing out soil quality VS all the timber- if it were just soil quality- Grundy county would be top notch! (west of Waterloo and mostly field). And, yep, if the farmers can't get their crops out that will fatten the deer up, relieve stress and put them into spring-time ready to grow antlers instead of body weight recovery.

Lastly, I personally think the areas in Southern IA that have large tracts of BOTTOM GROUND will grow bigger deer. Just my opinion. Has the nutrition, more water for plants, minerals, etc. Great thoughts above fellas!
 
Good, interesting reading...I'll add this.

I mostly hunted in a couple of areas up until I bought my farm in Davis County about 10 years ago. My ground in Davis County is relatively poor soil, heavy clay, although there is some decent crop ground within a 1/2 mile of me. But for the most part, I have below average soil quality.

Previously, I predominantly hunted a couple of different places in Washington County and also one in Henry County. These areas were very good agricultural land and two of them were along river bottoms too.

Age......Washington/Henry................................Davis
1-1/2 ...fork, 6 or even small 8's...................... Spikes commonly
2-1/2 ...100"ish 8 pointers ..............................60"-80" 5's and 7's
3-1/2 ...130"+ 8's or 10's, rare though...............120" 8's and 9's
4-1/2 ...?? hardly ever saw any :grin: ...................140"ish
5-1/2+ .Seriously, saw one once 180"+..............155"-165"
6-1/2 ..There were more unicorns than..............160"-170"+
...........bucks this old! :grin:

I think I have seen enough to present the chart above with some credibility behind it. For any given age class, I think the deer from the "good soil" counties were 20%-40% bigger antler-wise each year. However, due to hunting pressure and also "escapability" cover being present or not, the age class in the poor quality county is vastly superior.

So I commonly see bigger bucks in Davis County, but I think it takes them an extra year or two to "get there" than some other counties. I think the soil quality is a real factor, but if you have good soil and all of the bucks get whacked before they get to maturity, then you will have good genetics, but unrealized potential.
 
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All of you Iowa residents keep in mind. When you say poor soil in areas such as Appanoose, Davis or in my county (Ringgold) remember you are in Iowa. Poor soil in Iowa, might be very good soil in another state, and the growing season also comes into play.

I have a farm in MN that is sandy soil, tough to grow anything unless we have adequate rains. Compare that to the poorest soil on my farm in Ringgold and it is not even a comparison. I have 85 CSR soil in Ringgold, but I also have 13 CSR soil (steep). It will still grow better crops then my sand in MN.

Note: Trees will grow 2-3 to even 4 times faster in Southern Iowa than in MN.

3 1/2 year old bucks in MN, with a few exceptions,,, are not gonna be as impressive as a 3 1/2 year old buck in southern Iowa. Just a fact.
 
wtj43089 said:
Now when we talk about Clayton and Allemake we are talking about counties with huge amounts of timber and ridges. There are a lot of places for those young bucks to grow older and larger. Throw in a little good genetics and you have a lot of great deer up there.
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But they do not have the soil quality. It is very poor up there.
From what I have read I would expect to see more 140 - 150" 7 yr. old deer in Allamkee and Clayton.
I do remember reading a post a couple of years ago on here about the biggest deer being in the river bottom areas?
 
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