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BH 209 issue

F

Forestryguy

Member
This was my first year using BH 209, 100 gr charge. I had no problems while sighting in and during shotgun season. On Saturday I tried to shoot a doe and did not get a good ignition. The bullet and sabot exited the barrel but I am sure did not go far. At the shot heard more of a hiss as the powder went off. When I opened the breach there was still a little bit of unburned powder. Anyone have this experience?

I shot the gun off that morning, I had cleaned the gun and fired off a fouling shot. Reloaded and then went hunting that afternoon. The gun stayed in the truck till I went out. Would this be from a bad (not hot enough) primer? I am using CCI shotgun Magnum primers.
 
What gun were you shooting?
Do you have the right BP for BH209 if shooting a CVA
Have you cleaned the Breech Plug with a drill bit, to clean the carbon out of it, I will clean it after every 10 shots when at the range, and when done,
Was the bullet seated tight on the powder? BH209 likes to have it tight on the powder.
 
If you're shooting a CVA then more than likely it's a breech plug issue since blackhorn requires a little more fire compared to 777. I had a similar experience with my encore earlier this year while shooting before season. 3rd shot sounbed different and wasn't on paper. I think it was my breech plug since the primers were black after firing. I got the gun in 2002 and and from reading breech plugs do wareout. New plug has better fire because it changed my zero and now I need to play with powder again because my groupings opened up.
 
I tried blackhorn for one year and had nothing but problems, although things I could fix, I switched back to 777. The simplicity of just dropping 3 pellets down the barrel and never having to worry about a thing is worth the extra cleaning to me. Make sure you have the correct breech plug recommended by blackhorn also.
 
The BH209 breech plug was much different on my CVA compared to the standard. The pellet breech plug had a flat base with small hole going through it. The BH209 breech plug has a well extending into the breech plug for the powder to sit. I have never had an issue with BH209 yet.

I was amazed how much stuff you get out of a breech plug though after cleaning out the front hole with a small drill bit (by hand)

Hopefully it was just a breech plug issue.
 
I will echo that if you don't have the right breech plug, you are simply setting yourself up for issues. I love the stuff, never had any issues and the less corrosive nature and easy cleaning is fantastic!
 
AIRASSAULT said:
I tried blackhorn for one year and had nothing but problems, although things I could fix, I switched back to 777. The simplicity of just dropping 3 pellets down the barrel and never having to worry about a thing is worth the extra cleaning to me. Make sure you have the correct breech plug recommended by blackhorn also.
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Sorry on side topic.... I had issues this year as well. Multiple with BH. Let me ask you this.... Is there any significant ballistic or consistency differences between 777 and BH? If there is, I'll see if I can get BH to work. If not, I really don't care about extra clean-up either - it's so much easier dealing with 3 pellets than all that loose powder and the other issues I had (long story, several problems and I was not a fan of loose powder at all).
 
I shot 2 pellets of 777 out of my TC Pro Hunter until I made the switch to BH 3 years ago. (My gun wasn't as accurate with 3 pellets)

I made the switch for ease of reloading. I literally bent my loading rod trying to reload for a 3rd or 4th shot with 777. I found I could shoot as many consecutive shots as I wanted with BH without cleaning.

With equivalent load of blackhorn my gun was 6" higher at 100 yards . BH burns a lot hotter and certainly has an affect on balistics for same weight. I'm guessing 3 pellets is equivalent to about 120 g of BH from a ballistics standpoint (complete guess).

BH also allows you to dial in the exact load that any gun shoots best. I found my TC shoots best at 110 g BH. You can only adjust in 50 g increments with pellets (as far as I've seen)

Tangent..... Anyone have a Badbull Muzzleloader? Legit 500 yard performance in a smokeless bolt action custom unit..... but they are super spendy.
 
IowaBowHunter1983 said:
Tangent..... Anyone have a Badbull Muzzleloader? Legit 500 yard performance in a smokeless bolt action custom unit..... but they are super spendy.
Click to expand...

Nope.. Looked at them, but dang they are expensive!

I just ordered a Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader, so I'll be letting you guys know how it is when I get it and can start shooting it.....in a few months :(
 
I have CCI magnums. My T/C Triumph, T/C Encore Pro-hunter with Bergera barrel & CVA with Bergera barrel ALL shot very tight groups with 150 grains of Triple 7. Maybe due to bullets, Barnes TMZ as well with Crush rib sabots. The 3 pellets shot much flatter & also shooting with a buddy that shot 2 pellets- his bullets did not pass through on a couple deer where mine blew through on every animal. Of course, there's going to be power differences & trajectory with 150 grains vs 100 grains, obviously. But, for me, the groupings on all guns were tight with 150 grains & trajectory was much better.

When I went with BH on the guns, it was a pain to measure, my scales were finicky, it was a pain not spilling powder no matter how careful I was and my groups were not consistent with any range of BH powder. BUT - major major side note- after shooting the BH - I found a major barrel defect inside the barrel, which no idea what caused it but that's of course why it was so inconsistent. So - not blaming it on the BH in reality. Barrel is being warrantee replaced now. I did have some misfires with BH (3 different times) and that's never happened with 777. I have proper BP's and I know what I'm doing with cleaning.
On the "so many shots and clean" part - no matter what, BH or 777, I simply run some swabs down and clean it out every other shot in either case. To be honest, both seemed really dirty to me. BH claims of "clean" shooting - I dunno, I sure didn't see that. 2 shots and it was a frigin mess. Either one, I cleaned BP out, swabbed barrel several times until residue was gone and then loaded up again. A mess with either one when I shot em. But, just what I saw.

Ya- if BH is hotter and more powerful, say with volume of 120 grains (weight of 90 grains) and it shoots nice, I guess I'm giving it one last try. If it's got a better trajectory and flatter & more knock down power than 150 grains 777 - that's worth it to me. If it's similar - I'd stick to the pellets any day.
 
LYON said:
Sligh can I ask what the defect was?
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Ok, this was NOT from overloading the gun, I assure you!!!! I am 100% sure on every measurement and time I loaded it.....
Inside the barrel, you could see a long "ring" that swelled out inside the barrel. so, it essentially was a "wider barrel" for about 3" inside it. Like a warped expanded ring inside it. I shot 20 shots through it and I am 100% sure every load was consistent, exactly measured right, nothing got in the barrel, etc. Now, could a bullet have been defective, I suppose? But, calling Bergera, showing pics, etc, they couldn't explain it and said "warranty, new barrel". So, no frigin idea how or why it happened and I've been shooting ML's since I was 15 years old, (I'm super super old now, senior citizen - 37 years old) & I'm very comfortable with how I do things, shoot and how careful I am. I know darn well when I make a mistake and this surely was not the case with this one.
*Ok, the time it was my fault, in 7th grade me and buddy thought it was funny to double load shotgun reloads - sure packed a punch!!!! Then, as a 12-13 year old occasionally does, I had to be incredibly stupid and push it to the limits.... I triple loaded a 3" Mag 12 guage shell. It had all powder inside about 70% of the shell, had to cut down the wad & put a small amount of shot in it. My buddy would NOT fire it - wonder why?!?!?!? So, reluctantly, I held it back, squinted my eyes and the most massive fire ball erupted I ever seen, blew that semi-auto 12 guage into 50 different splintering parts. Took the action or bolt and blew it 12" into the soil 6" from my buddy's foot. Metal was a mangled mess in all sorts of peices. Wood stock splinters were laying all over the yard. My face made it out fine with very minor burns and my arm had a small scrape. LESSON KIDS: don't triple load things. It's not a good idea. That's my true side lesson for the day from "FIRE MARSHALL BILL"!!!! "Lemme show you something". Be careful kids! :D:rolleyes::way:
 
Don't think that BH is cleaner than 777. Just after several shots 777 forms a crude ring where bullet is seated. BH doesn't. I'm not a fan of loose powder either especially in sub-zero temps when it comes to reloading. But I can't imagine 3 or 4 shots in a row with a muzzleloader either. But never put up with a ramrod that bends. Replace it with something like a spinjag.com ramrod and jag. Jury still out on the BH but no problems and I like the way it shoots. Saw on another site to use spent rifle casings for your loose powder which would reduce any powder spilling. I'm always looking for better things in cold weather and the heat of the moment.
 
I completely disagree I hated cleaning my muzzleloader with triple seven and switched to BH this year and you can't even compare the two for ease of cleaning. And as for accuracy the last day of season I smoked a doe at 278 off a Caldwell field pod.
 
Hopefully I can answer the questions directed at me. I am shooting a Traditions Vortek. It is the BP that came with the gun, I have not looked at their website to see if they make a BH specific BP. I am shooting CCI 209 Magnums. The bullet was a Barnes Expander Spit-Fire TMZ, with a Crush Rib Sabot. The sabots that came on the TMZ were to tight to load and a friend recommended the Crush Ribs.
 
IowaBowHunter1983 said:
Tangent..... Anyone have a Badbull Muzzleloader? Legit 500 yard performance in a smokeless bolt action custom unit..... but they are super spendy.
Click to expand...

I am going to look into longer range muzzle loaders, I am sure it will be awhile before I could afford one though. Would be the equivalent of a bean field rifle from down south. I know I could set a shooting house on one hill top and easily have a 500+ shot in every direction. Could make that shot who knows, would take time at the range, and finding somewhere to shoot that distance is next to impossible in my area.

I am also going to look into a solid stock ML. Talking to guys that only hunt out West, they see better accuracy out of them vs. the break action styles.
 
Sligh1 said:
Ok, this was NOT from overloading the gun, I assure you!!!! I am 100% sure on every measurement and time I loaded it.....
Inside the barrel, you could see a long "ring" that swelled out inside the barrel. so, it essentially was a "wider barrel" for about 3" inside it. Like a warped expanded ring inside it. I shot 20 shots through it and I am 100% sure every load was consistent, exactly measured right, nothing got in the barrel, etc. Now, could a bullet have been defective, I suppose? But, calling Bergera, showing pics, etc, they couldn't explain it and said "warranty, new barrel". So, no frigin idea how or why it happened and I've been shooting ML's since I was 15 years old, (I'm super super old now, senior citizen - 37 years old) & I'm very comfortable with how I do things, shoot and how careful I am. I know darn well when I make a mistake and this surely was not the case with this one.
*Ok, the time it was my fault, in 7th grade me and buddy thought it was funny to double load shotgun reloads - sure packed a punch!!!! Then, as a 12-13 year old occasionally does, I had to be incredibly stupid and push it to the limits.... I triple loaded a 3" Mag 12 guage shell. It had all powder inside about 70% of the shell, had to cut down the wad & put a small amount of shot in it. My buddy would NOT fire it - wonder why?!?!?!? So, reluctantly, I held it back, squinted my eyes and the most massive fire ball erupted I ever seen, blew that semi-auto 12 guage into 50 different splintering parts. Took the action or bolt and blew it 12" into the soil 6" from my buddy's foot. Metal was a mangled mess in all sorts of peices. Wood stock splinters were laying all over the yard. My face made it out fine with very minor burns and my arm had a small scrape. LESSON KIDS: don't triple load things. It's not a good idea. That's my true side lesson for the day from "FIRE MARSHALL BILL"!!!! "Lemme show you something". Be careful kids! :D:rolleyes::way:
Click to expand...

Not saying you did the damage at all, just wondering what it was. I have an accura V2 and about 4"-5" inside the barrel from the breech end there is a very slight scratch/dent? It's a short line almost 90 degrees from the rifling. Maybe a call to bergara is necessary....

Your story about the 12 gauge....I'm glad you are still with us today. Funny now that nobody got hurt though!
 
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