LoessHillsArcher
PMA Member
We haven't changed what we use to clean the guns since shooting BH209. We use Bore Blaster most of the time I believe...
150 Class
Well-Known Member
777 I swabbed between every shot and the "crud ring" was the real deal. At the end of the day when it came to cleaning the gun, the breech plug was hard to get out. But cleaning the gun and the breech plug is a breeze.
BH209 is almost the exact opposite. Shoot all day and never run a patch through. 2 finger removal to pull the breech plug. Cleaning the gun was not bad except for having to use gun solvent but cleaning the breech plug was horrible. Maybe I was going overboard. If you want shiny like new looking cleaned breech plug, no worries. If you want like new, 777 is much easier than BH209.
This is in a Knight and switching to the Lehigh conversion made a huge difference. I won't shoot another Knight without that (I think the new ones come with them).
pastorpotluck
New Member
First I have a cryogenic (frozen during manufacturing) barrel on a Knight Master Hunter. Blackhorn 209 resulted in 3 shots in the same hole at fifty yards. You could cover them with a nickel. However the fourth shot was a flyer due to a hangfire. BlackHorn in my barrel is dirtier than Triple 7. I swabbed between each shot and the patches were filthy. The breech plug was so covered that I didn't see how it could fire. I was still using the red Knight plastic jacket with a CCI primer. I believe that the hang fire occurred because I didn't seat the bullet with enough force. Looking at the powder you can see that is shaped like hollow tubes. I maybe be wrong as possibly the fouled breech plug could be the culprit. However I have never had a hang fire with triple 7. Another minus is that in cold weather it is easier to use the red jacket than trying to use a bare primer. Would changing to a Lehigh converter help the misfire issue? And how difficult is it to load a bare primer with the converter in below freezing temperatures in a Knight with the converter? I love the accuracy but if the powder doesn't go off the deer doesn't drop. So now I'm back to using Triple 7 until I can get the hangfire issue resolved.
Team Haastyle
Host of Haastyle Hunting
When it comes to blackpowder brands...you name the brand and Ive tried it out in my T/C Omega. We have tried Pyrodex, 777, American Pioneer, and finally Blackhorn 209. By far we have noticed the best patterning/accuracy with the Blackhorn 209. Not only the accuracy but we can now also shoot farther distances. A great story I have regarding wet conditions with the powders was last year while I was in Iowa for the late muzzleloader season. After one of those icy rains during the hunt myself and another hunter were ironically using two different powders. I was using Blackhorn 209 and the other hunter was using 777. As we went to clean out our guns (just in case powder was ruined) we came across two different conclusions. First, as the other hunter pushed his sabot and powder out...it came out kinda like a cat turd. His powder was completely saturated. Now when I pushed my bullet and powder out...the powder was the same consistency and dryness as it was when I initally put it down my muzzle. So therefore, in my personal opinion. Put the 777 down and pick up a container of Blackhorn 209.
Liv4Rut
Active Member
It would of been interesting if you both would of tried to fire the guns versus cleaning. I have had a lot of misfires in wet conditions using BH209. I would of loved to see if 777 would of fired during those times or not. I only had one misfire with 777 many moons ago. Probably had 4 or 5 misfires with BH209. Once it gets below freezing though I have never had an issu. Got a new gun now that i think will be much better than my old knight
Team Haastyle
Host of Haastyle Hunting
I actually am very interested in this. Might have to take a little time to test this out myself with the BH209. Thanks for the input on that Liv4Rut
150 Class
Well-Known Member
My experience with it was the breech plug had a "tar" type of crud that was a royal pain to clean. Much worse than when using 777 and water. That was a breeze.
Unlike Liv4Rut's experience with it liking cold weather, I and others who have shot cold season had a better chance of a misfire then than in warmer weather.
Some gun designs or breech plugs are not BH 209 friendly. If you own an older Knight Exteme or Elite, get the Lehigh conversion and you have a top notch gun ready for BH 209 or any other sub powders.
The 777 crud ring and hard to remove breech plugs become a thing of the past when shooting BH 209. Shoot all day with no cleaning between shots and two finger breech plug removal at the end of the day.
Some people see better accuracy with one over the other. I was able to shoot both with equal accuracy.
Cornfed
Bowhunting Addict
Since my initial post on this I decided on BH209. I took the opportunity a couple months ago to spend a couple days on the local gun range shooting the powder and was very impressed. Let me also mention that I am shooting a special breech plug made by CVA for this powder in their Accura V2 rifle.
After 20 consecutive shots,.. I was still able to hold under a 2" group at 200 yards with 100 grains of BH209 and Hornady SST 50cal sabots and Winchester 'Blue box' shotgun 209 primers. There was no swabbing between shots. At 100 yds I can keep it under 1" group. That was all shooting off sandbags.
Triple 7 is also a great powder and I used it for years when I shot my old hawken frontloader. Just heard so many good things about this powder and was impressed with it's consistency and lack of corrosion.
I don't anticipate any problems with this powder come crunch time... but will be the first to report it should it occur... :way:
After 20 consecutive shots,.. I was still able to hold under a 2" group at 200 yards with 100 grains of BH209 and Hornady SST 50cal sabots and Winchester 'Blue box' shotgun 209 primers. There was no swabbing between shots. At 100 yds I can keep it under 1" group. That was all shooting off sandbags.
Triple 7 is also a great powder and I used it for years when I shot my old hawken frontloader. Just heard so many good things about this powder and was impressed with it's consistency and lack of corrosion.
I don't anticipate any problems with this powder come crunch time... but will be the first to report it should it occur... :way:
Liv4Rut
Active Member
That is what I believe the problem was. It was an older knight disc Extreme. I have hunted down pours with 777 though and hadn't had issues which is what made me wonder.
I do love the powder though. The thing I love the most is barely any smoke and you don't have to swab as much.
I too am shooting a CVA ACCURA V2 now with a breech plug that was designed by the blackhorn team. I am not worried about using the powder with this gun. The older knight I was more worried about since the primer didn't actually fit directly in the flash hole.
AIRASSAULT
PMA Member
I used Blackhorn for the first time this weekend. Every shot was delayed ignition. Fortunately I was using a leadsled so it didn't really affect my accuracy any. I have a Traditions Vortek and was using Remington Kleanbore muzzleloading .209 primers. Would switching to the CCI primers help cure the hangfire problem? Or am I doing something else wrong?
Cornfed
Bowhunting Addict
I also tried the Federal 209M primers.... suppose to be the hottest available.... lots of blowback with them..... blackhorn needs a shotgun specific primer to consistently ignite..... with the Accura V2 the Winchester W209 seems to be the ticket.... :way:
Team Haastyle
Host of Haastyle Hunting
Yeah thats a bit strange that you had blowback with the CCIs. After using every run of the mill primer, they have worked the best for me. When it comes to muzzleloading, I've came to one conclusion....every muzzleloader has its own personality.
hotshott2289
Active Member
been spending a little range time this week and i love the 209, I'm getting great groups and its definetly a lot easier to clean. I also switched to the Hornady Sabots from the shockwaves and they seem to shoot a lot better as well
rudy
New Member
bh209
we have been experimenting with bh209 for the psat 3 seasons.when customers ask us about the benefits of it over 777[or any other powder]we tell them the biggest advantage is that you can shoot all day without cleaning.your last shot will slide down the barrel just like the first shot.treat it just as you would any hunting rifle and clean it accordingly using any good RIFLE cleaning solvent.[i use ultraklenz[sp?] as it dissolves the plastic residue from the sabot]breech plugs need to have a 30 thousanths bore to eliminate hang fires.all knights need to be drilled,most newer guns won't hang fire but if they do,drill it.the powder has a long shelf life[the manufacturer says forever] and WON'T absorb moisture like 777.[ive had the "cat turd"before and when it fired it looked like a roman candle going out of the blind,hitting the ground 50 yards out.no tag used there!bh209 may cost more per shot but if you figure in what you save in cleaning supplies,gain in accuracy[because of the lack of sabot drag from the fouled barrel] and conveinience we think it's well worth the $ and pretty much makes all the others take a back seat regardless of what you might see on tv.the only con is that it has to be measured but if you can find some 35mm film cannisters[or speed loaders]you can pre-measure your loads before heading to the range or feild.try it,you'll like it.
rudy at r and r sports clinton,iowa
we have been experimenting with bh209 for the psat 3 seasons.when customers ask us about the benefits of it over 777[or any other powder]we tell them the biggest advantage is that you can shoot all day without cleaning.your last shot will slide down the barrel just like the first shot.treat it just as you would any hunting rifle and clean it accordingly using any good RIFLE cleaning solvent.[i use ultraklenz[sp?] as it dissolves the plastic residue from the sabot]breech plugs need to have a 30 thousanths bore to eliminate hang fires.all knights need to be drilled,most newer guns won't hang fire but if they do,drill it.the powder has a long shelf life[the manufacturer says forever] and WON'T absorb moisture like 777.[ive had the "cat turd"before and when it fired it looked like a roman candle going out of the blind,hitting the ground 50 yards out.no tag used there!bh209 may cost more per shot but if you figure in what you save in cleaning supplies,gain in accuracy[because of the lack of sabot drag from the fouled barrel] and conveinience we think it's well worth the $ and pretty much makes all the others take a back seat regardless of what you might see on tv.the only con is that it has to be measured but if you can find some 35mm film cannisters[or speed loaders]you can pre-measure your loads before heading to the range or feild.try it,you'll like it.
rudy at r and r sports clinton,iowa
cornfedkiller
Member
Hey guys- Thinking about switching to the BH209 for next season. I am still using an old box of pyrodex pellets, and I cannot get good groups at all, so Im going to switch and figured now would be a good time to go with the BH209, but I have a couple questions...
You guys talk about cleaning it with regular gun solvent. Im assuming that means the Thompson Center T-17 solvent will not work with it, correct??
Also mentioned was that some guns and some breech plugs are not compatible/do not work well with the BH209..would I be best off calling TC (Im shooting a TC Black Diamond XR) or Blackhorn and asking them if its going to work well for me?
Also forgot to mention - If I swab my barrel every few shots while sighting it in (which I currently do with the T-17), what would I use for that?
You guys talk about cleaning it with regular gun solvent. Im assuming that means the Thompson Center T-17 solvent will not work with it, correct??
Also mentioned was that some guns and some breech plugs are not compatible/do not work well with the BH209..would I be best off calling TC (Im shooting a TC Black Diamond XR) or Blackhorn and asking them if its going to work well for me?
Also forgot to mention - If I swab my barrel every few shots while sighting it in (which I currently do with the T-17), what would I use for that?
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G6
Active Member
I still shoot my old MK-85 and my BK-92 Knights , one with caps and Pyrodex and one with the 209 shotgun primers and Triple 7 and never have any misfires. Gun maintenance is the key to shooting ANY muzzleloader, I think the newer guns are just engineered to be too finicky when it comes to loads not to mention way to heavy to lug around. I only use Triple 7 because I don't have to measure the powder and it is easier to clean the residue off the breach plug ect. I can't comment on the 209 powder and since it ignites harder then I don't want anything to do with it, I will wipe my barrel between shots if I have to. Your accuracy is ALL in how tight of a seal you have with your bullet in your barrel as long as you powder ignites no matter what you use. I have been shooting muzzleloaders for 30+ years. :way:
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Team Haastyle
Host of Haastyle Hunting
Cornfedkiller,
In our muzzleloaders we still use T-17 and it cleans it squeaky clean. We have been using BH209 for three years now with no problems. Also as for the breech plugs, is your Black Diamond XR a magnum load muzzleloader? If it is you will have no problems, if not...then you have to make sure that you stay under a 100 grains by volume of powder. Also for the swabbing between shots, we swab our barrels on average every four shots with a dab of T-17 on a dry patch and then follow with straight dry patches. Hope this helps you out.
cornfedkiller
Member
Perfect..Thanks for the help!
I have been trying to call Blackhorn and cannot get an answer, and I emailed them a couple days ago too and havent heard anything back from them..kinda ticks me off
Anyways, Im not sure if my muzzleloader is a magnum load muzzleloader or not..What does that mean/how do I find that out?? I was planning on staying under 100gr by volume anyways (depending on what works best with my bullets), but it sounds like some of the breech plugs are not compatible because the flash chamber isnt big enough or something (or is that what the difference is between the magnum and non-magnum ones is?). The breech plug on my BDXR is a two piece thing (it was about the time everything was switching over from no.11 to 209s), and you can switch out the one piece depending on what you want to burn, so Im not sure if thats going to work or not.. I wish blackhorn would answer the phone..
I'll maybe give thompson center a call, but Im not sure how much they will know about it??
cornfedkiller
Member
One more question-
If I am currently using 100gr of pyrodex (2 pellets), do I use 100gr by volume of the BH209 (which is actually 70gr by weight)? Basically, are the pyrodex pellets measured by weight or volume? And if the pellets are measured by volume, do I still use the same amount of the BH, or do I use less since its hotter?
(sorry if thats really confusing)
If I am currently using 100gr of pyrodex (2 pellets), do I use 100gr by volume of the BH209 (which is actually 70gr by weight)? Basically, are the pyrodex pellets measured by weight or volume? And if the pellets are measured by volume, do I still use the same amount of the BH, or do I use less since its hotter?
(sorry if thats really confusing)