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Cedar, you're taking a good discussion and turning it sour. It's no secret most NR's bought land in Iowa to hunt deer, not farm. I think trophy hunting and deer management go hand in hand and is the primary concept behind this site. It's also common sense the landowner wants to manage and enjoy his/her own property, right Cedar you own a farm, I'll wait for my invite to your land. I won't hold my breath! I already said the NR landowner regs should stay the same, but the NR landowner with a lot of acreage have a deer number problem due to no doe tags available. You can't expect a landowner to let anybody on his property, R or NR. It's a legit problem on "some" properties.
 
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I'm not really convinced that many NR landowners have a deer number "problem". They may have a lot of deer, but hey that is why they bought the land. They can't possibly have a buck/doe ratio problem since they are even more limited on killing a buck. What they have is a pocket of land where there are more deer than in other areas, which sounds like a good thing now if numbers are as low elsewhere as some people are saying. Deer have a way of disbursing on their own if populations are too high in one area and too low in other areas. I think what we are seeing is the future of deer hunting. Some land will be heavily populated with deer and some land of similar habitat will not be, due to the hunting pressure. Deer will continue to move back into the areas that get slaughtered every year, but those farms will never be the same as farms with very limited hunting pressure.
 
Well I am glad to see the band wagon getting a little more crowded. I have been banging this drum for a few years now and the company is feeling good. I wonder who gets to set this magical CCC number and how it is arrived at? If the IDNR really wants to get back to mid 1990 type numbers, what will they do about licenses and who will decided when we have arrived at an ideal CCC? Here are some numbers from the mid 90s

year licences issued deer harvested success ratio

1992 186,436 77684 42%
1993 168,017 76430 45%
1994 180,525 87231 48%
1995 177,441 97256 55%
1996 202,834 107632 53%
1997 211,118 118404 56%

2008 406,169 142194 35%


Along with all that in 1996 only 35 counties were any sex for the 1st shotgun season and 26 counties were bucks only for the first 5 days of the second shotgun season. I strongly urge people to look at the historical data. Is this what we, as hunters, want to return to and why should our wants be so terribly sacrificed to serve the interests of insurance companies and The Farm Bureau boards, and not necessarily their membership. I am not taking a cheap shot at farmers at all, but the current deprivation program requires that a biologist make the call about having too many deer. There are a lot of people who say that deer are destroying their crops but when it comes time to prove it they can't but still complain about "way too many deer". The really sad thing that with all the press from the Farm Bureau and the DNR we have bought into the idea just from what they said that we have way too many deer. There has been no proof of this supposition but many of us have taken up the chant of too many deer, kill more does, lower the population just on the basics of what a few people have said. How many deer do we have and how many are "way too many"? I have asked this for years and received no answers even from the deer division of the IDNR. All of my questions have been sluffed off with standard form policy letters from Mr. Leopold.

When there are deer levels like in the mid 90's will the IDNR curtail the license sales or will they continue to try to sell the same numbers of licenses and push a 30% or even lower success ratio down our throats? If they cut back licenses or the very poor chances of killing a deer cause half of the hunters to drop out of hunting, how will they make up for the huge short fall of dollars? Will they just raise the license prices, which will drive more hunters away? Will they raise the price and the numbers of NR licenses to help with the money? The cash cow (deer hunting) might not be dead yet but it is sliding toward the hole at the bottom of the slippery slope.:(

Better stop now, some times I get to beating that drum pretty hard, but it is what I see and believe and I for one will continue with what I can.:way:
 
Many have bought into the QDMA, kill all the does theme, with no sound numbers to determine when too few deer remain. In my home state deer numbers are in the dumper but the game commission claims deer numbers are up(almost extinct), show a pic of a few big bucks(joke) to prove the managment is working and dream up new ways of selling licenses(cross bows legal for everyone this past year). We need the girls to reproduce. I would love to know how much ching insurance companies give the QDMA to push their agenda. I'm all for a quality herd but no state has a sound population count tool(s).
 
This is what happened in my former State also." Too many Deer", was said constantly. Where I lived, there wasn't even farming, just Nat Forest. The powers over the herd came up with reasons to kill more,,First,,TB. Which had been around for a hundred yrs, but suddenly became a problem. Now it is CWD, as in Wisconsin. They took the slaughter approach there too. The disease problems resulted from Fenced Farming wildlife, which never should have been started, yet still exsists. I moved out here for better hunting, but this state is on the same road. The disease problems will be the next excuse, twards,,"Kill More Deer".
 
Cedar, I'm still waiting for my invite to your farm. We'll start in Feb. with some shedding, then April we'll put in a couple plots and can't wait to start summer scouting. BTW, I should draw an archery tag this year. If you don't mind I like the first 14 days of Nov. Don't worry I will shoot a doe first if you want.... I think you get the point. I don't think you want me there while you enjoy your land and prepare for the upcoming season, NR landowners are no different and should not be asked to behave differently.
 
Bonker, no. I simply mean NR landowners are uncomfortable letting folks they don't really know on their property to help with herd reduction and that I assume resident landowners would feel the same.
I don't consider myself having the doe reduction problem. I own a small piece of property and the deer share several parcels owned by others. A couple of the nearbly landowners allow no hunting, but a couple do shotgun hunt fairly hard and knock the deer down.
 
Jdubs said:
Cedar, I'm still waiting for my invite to your farm. We'll start in Feb. with some shedding, then April we'll put in a couple plots and can't wait to start summer scouting. BTW, I should draw an archery tag this year. If you don't mind I like the first 14 days of Nov. Don't worry I will shoot a doe first if you want.... I think you get the point. I don't think you want me there while you enjoy your land and prepare for the upcoming season, NR landowners are no different and should not be asked to behave differently.
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Ok; i wasn't going to respond to anymore of your post since you said i was taking a good discussion and turning it sour. I might add that you are the one who brought up the discussion about NR's shortage of doe tags for land management. As for the invite to my land; i don't see a problem. I have some does that could still be thinned. You will be sharing the land with several other hunters. I expect you to return the favor though. You see without access to private land in Iowa; there wouldn't be deer hunting for the masses. I am in my golden years, and spent most of my life acquiring permission to hunt. That is the biggest reason i purchased my farm when i did. I don't lock my land up like some, and i don't think it's right for people to think that way. I understand farmers that have family that hunt, and want to preserve it for them. But you sound like many who believe the land you own was created for you and you alone. I have news for you. You are only a steward of the land. 100 years from now; somebody in your family may still own your land; or possibly a complete stranger. Whoever it is; i hope they have a better understanding of managing land than you.
 
Cedar, if you notice my post just before yours I mentioned to Bonker I don't own a big chunk, only a small piece that can accomodate one hunter, maybe two, without feeling crowded considering the huntable acreage.
I do permit two hunters on my property, both residents, who border me on the west and east. In fact, I let one trap the creek on the farm which kind of hurts regarding bumping deer, but he's a good guy and great neighbor. My relationship with him is far more important than "locking up my land" which I don't do.
Over the years I have grown to trust and respect both neighbors and in return we have a lot of fun and good hunting.
 
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"A bargin as well if you just dropped $1.5 million for your 500 acres of Iowa whitetail paradise! " m kat

I hope you don't assume most NR's are dropping that kind of cash on property??? How about the passionate bowhunting fool who scraped together every red cent he had by working overtime, opting out of the company 401k to invest in land, and took a second part time job to buy 80 acres of the best whitetial habitat in Iowa?? Oh yea, don't forget the part where he has to explain to his elementary school teaching(huge paying job) wife the upside of the endeavor. To that guy $350 for a doe tag is tough.
 
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Jdubs said:
How about the passionate bowhunting fool who scraped together every red cent he had by working overtime, opting out of the company 401k to invest in land, and took a second part time job to buy 80 acres of the best whitetial habitat in Iowa?? Oh yea, don't forget the part where he has to explain to his elementary school teaching(huge paying job) wife the upside of the endeavor. To that guy $350 for a doe tag is tough.
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I knew full well going into my land purchase that times were going to be tough. I also knew what tags were going to cost. Did you not?
 
Jdubs said:
"A bargin as well if you just dropped $1.5 million for your 500 acres of Iowa whitetail paradise! " m kat

I hope you don't assume most NR's are dropping that kind of cash on property??? How about the passionate bowhunting fool who scraped together every red cent he had by working overtime, opting out of the company 401k to invest in land, and took a second part time job to buy 80 acres of the best whitetial habitat in Iowa?? Oh yea, don't forget the part where he has to explain to his elementary school teaching(huge paying job) wife the upside of the endeavor. To that guy $350 for a doe tag is tough.
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You said,

Jdubs said:
I have been all over the board on this issue as I listen to both sides. At the end of the day I have concluded the system should remain as is for NR landowners. They can archery hunt every 3 years, and hunt every year with the shotgun if they know someone with whom they can party hunt.
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Jdubs said:
The only unresolved problem is the NR who owns a lot of land, several hundred acres plus, and only receives one doe tag. From a management standpoint one doe tag is not enough, but what to do?
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So,.... I will take that as an agreement to my first statement. Sorry, if I don't feel sorry for the fellow with the deep pockets who feels paying a bunch of money for some land entitles him to something above everybody else.

I guess I am more worried about the NR who "who scraped together every red cent" he has just to buy a tag so he can come to Iowa and hunt the same public ground that I hunt, and is the same NR's that I hunt with.

What do you think will happen to that public land when just owning property will entitle you to a buck tag?

I will tell you and it is an easy thing to envision (I have relatives in Ill:)) A large influx of non-resident land owners equals a large influx of resident hunters pushed to the very small resource that is public hunting in this state. Now how will that work out for the NR that doesn't have the deep pockets to buy land or pay an outfitter?

I am very comfortable waiting in line to hunt other states to get a quality hunt, and I think that all NR hunters in this state should be playing by the same rules.

That gets back to the topic, I do and will continue to voice this opinion to my local representatives and those powers that be who make the rules, so they will know with out a shadow of a doubt the consequences of their votes.
 
Jdubs said:
Cedar, if you notice my post just before yours I mentioned to Bonker I don't own a big chunk, only a small piece that can accomodate one hunter, maybe two, without feeling crowded considering the huntable acreage.
I do permit two hunters on my property, both residents, who border me on the west and east. In fact, I let one trap the creek on the farm which kind of hurts regarding bumping deer, but he's a good guy and great neighbor. My relationship with him is far more important than "locking up my land" which I don't do.
Over the years I have grown to trust and respect both neighbors and in return we have a lot of fun and good hunting.
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Your earlier post stated your concern for only one doe tag, and managing several hundred plus acres. Now you are saying you only have a small piece that can accomodate one hunter? Which is it? What exactly are your concerns for managing a deer herd on what size property? As far as permitting your neighboring land owners to hunt goes; i'm willing to bet you can hunt their land also. Resident or nonresident; i'm glad you don't have deep enough pockets to own alot of land! Iowa doesn't need landowners like you. If you don't like the price of a doe tag in Iowa; maybe you should sell your land, and purchase some land in the state you reside. Sounds like your wife would be happier also!
 
Cedar, I'm really kind of tired of you looking for a problem with everything I post. First, I never said I owned several hundred acres, but the current system does not help the NR landowner is that situation. I stated what I owned which is a small piece. Second, I previously stated, to Bonker, I have no problem with "my" situation as I own a small piece and the deer move off my property and the proper numbers are probably harvested. And for the third time I stated leave the NR landowner regs the way they are!!! Third, I'm fine with the price of a doe tag, but was only making a point that Iowa is quickly becoming out of reach for some who want the hunting experience there. Fourth, I didn't say the "NR scraping every red cent" was me, but I do know a few who have done that, and are in the category I mentioned. Lastly, you blasted me for "locking up my land" and when I posted I offer my land to residents I'm still a landowner "Iowa doesn't need". The problem with is guys like you is you are closed minded and will not consider what a NR has to say or offer. I assure you I'm very good steward of the land and the Iowa residents I share camp with will confirm that. You're bitter, closed minded and uninformed.
 
dubs; I'm tired of your whining about the poor NR's also! I was willing to let this rest, but you saw fit to call me out anyway. You sure shoot your mouth of alot for somebody who is ok with the system the way it is! If standing up to the nonresident landowner who wants to change the hunting regulations to benifit their need is close minded; I'm proud to be close minded. As for bitter (people like you make me bitter). Now maybe we can let this topic rest as you had your say, and i had mine.
 
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