This year I bought 2 any sex and 4 antlerless tags, cost me a total of $111. If the any sex tags had been $50 each and the doe tags $5, they would have cost me total of $120. Only $9 difference to shoot the same number of deer. If the average guy wanted to buy an any sex and a doe tag this year they spent $52, with the hypothetical prices they would have spent $55. Who are we excluding here?
Nobody gets excluded, they just get to make a decision at the cash register that allows them to save $$ and shoot more breeders if they dont care about antlers. Give folks a monetary reason to shoot only does and they will. I dont think that this should apply to youth season tags however, kids ought to be encouraged to shoot whatever they want, if it helps to get them into the sport.
Obviously they need to increase the doe tag quotas in problem areas and stop requiring the purchase on anysex tags first.
And, as a side benefit, we get a better buck / doe ratio, and more mature bucks. Thats a pretty nice bonus if you ask me and I dont see anything wrong with thinking that.
I guess I also dont see what difference it makes where you hunt. If you dont have good bucks in the area you hunt, you might if fewer people shot them at 1 1/2 yrs of age just for the meat. You might soon have bucks that were worth $50 running around.
So basicly, everybody gets to take home just as much meat if not more, save money if they want to, and if you care about antlers you get to see more and better ones. Pretty simple system to implement and regulate as well.
Man, I just dont see how it could work out much better than that, but its just my opinon, maybe this explains it better.
Nobody gets excluded, they just get to make a decision at the cash register that allows them to save $$ and shoot more breeders if they dont care about antlers. Give folks a monetary reason to shoot only does and they will. I dont think that this should apply to youth season tags however, kids ought to be encouraged to shoot whatever they want, if it helps to get them into the sport.
Obviously they need to increase the doe tag quotas in problem areas and stop requiring the purchase on anysex tags first.
And, as a side benefit, we get a better buck / doe ratio, and more mature bucks. Thats a pretty nice bonus if you ask me and I dont see anything wrong with thinking that.
I guess I also dont see what difference it makes where you hunt. If you dont have good bucks in the area you hunt, you might if fewer people shot them at 1 1/2 yrs of age just for the meat. You might soon have bucks that were worth $50 running around.
So basicly, everybody gets to take home just as much meat if not more, save money if they want to, and if you care about antlers you get to see more and better ones. Pretty simple system to implement and regulate as well.
Man, I just dont see how it could work out much better than that, but its just my opinon, maybe this explains it better.
Since when did Iowa start making you pay for trophy fees? If that's the case I want my guide to take me out next year. I can't belive people want to charge extra to shoot a trophy deer. This is the only big game we have in this state and they want it to be just for the people who can afford it. Heck Montana only charges $16 for a ELK tag and $13 for a deer. They have plenty of monsters out there. Colorado is the same way with their elk tags, $30. Believe it or not but there are people out there who actually hunt for the sport and thrill of it. It sounds like the only thing that people worry about here is the size of the deer's antlers. I practice QDM and so does everyone I hunt with, but just because a person shoots a deer that "YOU" don't think should have been shot, doesn't give you the right to criticize that person. As a matter of fact I know of a person who was going to post a pic of their first deer ever on this site to show everyone but didn't because of people talking down about others who shoot small bucks. He didn't want to be criticized by the "experts." I just think that there are some people on here that worry to much about other people's business. If you don't hunt the land around me then why would you worry on what I shoot? I apologize to anyone I offended in this little venting session, and please don't take it personal.
H
horst
Guest
timber pig, the math you just done is the exact reason it matters where you live.
The quota system doenst allow all of us to buy 4 doe tags, in my county there was only 100 extra tags available so you can see where not everyones gonna get that many.And Ive still gotta buy 2 either sex tags at 100$, no savings there, Im out an extra 50$ and will still probably wind up tagging does with em at the end of season.
Also Ive got kids that will be hunting before long.Figure 3 kids, plus me, 2 tags each, and your talking 400$ worth of tags, so much for getting the youth involved.A couple hundred more and I can go on a guided hunt.
My point is there a lotta ways you can do the math and make it look good but that might just apply to one individual or situation.Nothings equal, not the doe tag quotas, not the number of tags bought per household, and what might look good in your county dont apply to mine.
Some of what you said I can and really do agree with, Id love to see more trophy bucks in my area, but I dont like the idea of others losing out on good hunting experiences to make me happy, Ill just hunt a little harder and longer than everyone else to get what Im after.If somebody else wants to shoot 1 1/2 yr old bucks thats great, Ill help em drag em out.
Another thing you said made sense to, quit making em buy either sex tags first and increase the quotas in problem counties.instead of using a blanket approach where they do something statewide(Like adjusting tag prices) they need to look at things on a smaller level, county by county, or even in some cases city by city if thats where the problems coming from.If that makes sense, I just got up so my thinkings a little foggy yet LOL.
![yawn[1].gif](http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yawn[1].gif)
The quota system doenst allow all of us to buy 4 doe tags, in my county there was only 100 extra tags available so you can see where not everyones gonna get that many.And Ive still gotta buy 2 either sex tags at 100$, no savings there, Im out an extra 50$ and will still probably wind up tagging does with em at the end of season.
Also Ive got kids that will be hunting before long.Figure 3 kids, plus me, 2 tags each, and your talking 400$ worth of tags, so much for getting the youth involved.A couple hundred more and I can go on a guided hunt.
My point is there a lotta ways you can do the math and make it look good but that might just apply to one individual or situation.Nothings equal, not the doe tag quotas, not the number of tags bought per household, and what might look good in your county dont apply to mine.
Some of what you said I can and really do agree with, Id love to see more trophy bucks in my area, but I dont like the idea of others losing out on good hunting experiences to make me happy, Ill just hunt a little harder and longer than everyone else to get what Im after.If somebody else wants to shoot 1 1/2 yr old bucks thats great, Ill help em drag em out.
Another thing you said made sense to, quit making em buy either sex tags first and increase the quotas in problem counties.instead of using a blanket approach where they do something statewide(Like adjusting tag prices) they need to look at things on a smaller level, county by county, or even in some cases city by city if thats where the problems coming from.If that makes sense, I just got up so my thinkings a little foggy yet LOL.
teeroy
Life Member
good comment lxshooter. i know atleast one guy who also didn't put up a pic of his deer. even thought of posting my own, but didn't want to defend it for weeks, or be berated for not being a "true hunter". i'm not a trophy hunter....i'm a DEER hunter. not sexist (buck, doe, don't care) just want to have fun and enjoy my season, and go home with meat for the freezer
ironwood
Active Member
lxshooter and teeroy,
I would like to encourage both of you to view this site a little differently. With out a doubt the view of this site is that the trophy is in the eye of the beholder. Several of us may comment about holding back or waiting for a larger deer, but that is strictly a personal thing. Post your picture man, that is what this site is really all about. I absolutely gaurantee you that you'll get nothing but encouragement for your success from any active long time member of this site. The others don't stick around because there is to much good character here. For them there is no fun if they are not bashing someone or something.
![893soapbox-thumb[1].gif](http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/893soapbox-thumb[1].gif)
This is a great place to get info and be encourage in our sport.
I would like to encourage both of you to view this site a little differently. With out a doubt the view of this site is that the trophy is in the eye of the beholder. Several of us may comment about holding back or waiting for a larger deer, but that is strictly a personal thing. Post your picture man, that is what this site is really all about. I absolutely gaurantee you that you'll get nothing but encouragement for your success from any active long time member of this site. The others don't stick around because there is to much good character here. For them there is no fun if they are not bashing someone or something.
kbgibby
Threebeards
Horst,
Have you ever thought that the reason you don't have many/any bucks over 130 is that you guys are shooting all the young bucks? One of the reasons I quit shotgun hunting was because of the antlers-only attitude where I hunted up in Northwest Iowa. Because of that, you rarely see a decent buck up there. Other guys bitch and complain (on other posts) about the lack of conservation officers/law enforcement, yet don't want to pay for it through higher license fees. You can't have it both ways!!
I don't think anyone is trying to keep all the bucks to themselves. Common sense says that more does need to be taken. So make it cheaper and easier to shoot does and tougher/more costly to shoot bucks. Sell more doe tags without first requiring you to buy an any sex tag.
Threebeards
Have you ever thought that the reason you don't have many/any bucks over 130 is that you guys are shooting all the young bucks? One of the reasons I quit shotgun hunting was because of the antlers-only attitude where I hunted up in Northwest Iowa. Because of that, you rarely see a decent buck up there. Other guys bitch and complain (on other posts) about the lack of conservation officers/law enforcement, yet don't want to pay for it through higher license fees. You can't have it both ways!!
I don't think anyone is trying to keep all the bucks to themselves. Common sense says that more does need to be taken. So make it cheaper and easier to shoot does and tougher/more costly to shoot bucks. Sell more doe tags without first requiring you to buy an any sex tag.
Threebeards
B
Bobcat
Guest
I agree 100% with ironwood, guy's get your pictures on here for us all to see!!
Ironwood, since I'm a longtime member, in light of the xmas season, how about emailing Mrs. Bobcat and telling her about all the good character I have!!!
![icon_rolleyes[1].gif](http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon_rolleyes[1].gif)
Easy fellas, nobody is attacking anyone for shooting a small buck if that is what means something to them. In fact, I dont remember anyone ever doing that on this site in the last 2 1/2 years that I've been reading. Sure there are lots of QDM posts, but I've never seen a guy post a pic of his small buck and then get jumped by a bunch of "experts" for doing so.
Suggestions were requested for easing the population problem and I just think that this is a workable approach. No new laws forced on everyone, everybody gets to make their own choice.
You may have a point with respect to counties that have very limited doe tags available. However I dont see why the lower doe price would have to only apply to the bonus tags. If an individual could still make a decision on whether to buy an anysex tag or "doe" tag for his statewide tag, the idea still works. That individual just might not get to buy 2 doe tags if he gets to WallWorld too late (a situation you already have). He still only gets one license either way, but can choose to buy a cheaper tag and help balance the herd at the same time.
That brings up another point, shooting does isnt just about reducing the population, its about proper herd managment. On opening day of Shotgun season 1 I sat in the same spot from dawn to dusk and saw 32 deer, 3 of which were bucks and the oldest was a 2 1/2 year old. Nobody can tell me thats the way that nature intended the herd to be.
If the $50 thing is what really bothers you make it $26 for a buck and $1 for a doe, I dont care. The point of the idea is to make a difference in price to encourage people to shoot what we have a surplus of and preserve what we have relatively few of without forcing anyone to do it.
If your county has few bonus tags available and the DNR continues to charge the same amount for the only tag your residents can buy, regardless of what you shoot, your herd will never look any different than it does today.
Not trying to start an argument with anybody, just opinons.
Suggestions were requested for easing the population problem and I just think that this is a workable approach. No new laws forced on everyone, everybody gets to make their own choice.
You may have a point with respect to counties that have very limited doe tags available. However I dont see why the lower doe price would have to only apply to the bonus tags. If an individual could still make a decision on whether to buy an anysex tag or "doe" tag for his statewide tag, the idea still works. That individual just might not get to buy 2 doe tags if he gets to WallWorld too late (a situation you already have). He still only gets one license either way, but can choose to buy a cheaper tag and help balance the herd at the same time.
That brings up another point, shooting does isnt just about reducing the population, its about proper herd managment. On opening day of Shotgun season 1 I sat in the same spot from dawn to dusk and saw 32 deer, 3 of which were bucks and the oldest was a 2 1/2 year old. Nobody can tell me thats the way that nature intended the herd to be.
If the $50 thing is what really bothers you make it $26 for a buck and $1 for a doe, I dont care. The point of the idea is to make a difference in price to encourage people to shoot what we have a surplus of and preserve what we have relatively few of without forcing anyone to do it.
If your county has few bonus tags available and the DNR continues to charge the same amount for the only tag your residents can buy, regardless of what you shoot, your herd will never look any different than it does today.
Not trying to start an argument with anybody, just opinons.
H
horst
Guest
Threebeards,I know exactly why we dont have the bucks other parts of the state do.I quit shotgunhunting for pretty much that same reason and dont miss it a bit.
But at the same time you gotta see something wrong with the length of these seasons.If a guys got a job hes only getting 2 to 4 days to hunt during shotgun season, one weekend first season or two weekends second.Thats got a lot to do with how many little bucks get killed, their gonna take whats available in the short time they have to hunt.And judging by the posts Ive read in here it aint just a NW Iowa thing.Theres a lotta other factors involved to.look at the amount of cover these deer have in southern Iowa and look at the wide open spaces they got here.They farm into the road ditches,cut down all the groves,they wont even leave a fenceline for the deer to hide in.
And the DNRs not any better, the first thing they do in this county when they get a piece of property is go in and cut down all the trees.They manage this corner of the state for pheasants, not deer.Where the deer in southern Iowa have miles upon miles of timber to hide in and grow our deer have very little to protect them.
You want people to shoot mature bucks, great, give them the time to do it or dont bitch about it.You want to change something, going after the length of the gun seasons would be a good start.But then us bowhunters wouldnt like that either.theyre never gonna make everyone happy.
In all seriousness, have you chased a particuliar mature buck for the whole length of bow season before and never got a shot at him? I have.Now imagine having just two days to kill him in.
Im done with this subject, apparently my opinions not very popular and Ill drop it.But if someones paying the same amount for a deer tag you are they have every right to kill whatever makes them happy as long as its a legal deer.And the guys shooting the 1 1/2 yr old bucks arent the guys doing all the bitching, so apparently it does make them happy.Again, sorry, I wasnt trying to start an argument and I wont bring it up again.Also, sorry this got so
But at the same time you gotta see something wrong with the length of these seasons.If a guys got a job hes only getting 2 to 4 days to hunt during shotgun season, one weekend first season or two weekends second.Thats got a lot to do with how many little bucks get killed, their gonna take whats available in the short time they have to hunt.And judging by the posts Ive read in here it aint just a NW Iowa thing.Theres a lotta other factors involved to.look at the amount of cover these deer have in southern Iowa and look at the wide open spaces they got here.They farm into the road ditches,cut down all the groves,they wont even leave a fenceline for the deer to hide in.
And the DNRs not any better, the first thing they do in this county when they get a piece of property is go in and cut down all the trees.They manage this corner of the state for pheasants, not deer.Where the deer in southern Iowa have miles upon miles of timber to hide in and grow our deer have very little to protect them.
You want people to shoot mature bucks, great, give them the time to do it or dont bitch about it.You want to change something, going after the length of the gun seasons would be a good start.But then us bowhunters wouldnt like that either.theyre never gonna make everyone happy.
In all seriousness, have you chased a particuliar mature buck for the whole length of bow season before and never got a shot at him? I have.Now imagine having just two days to kill him in.
Im done with this subject, apparently my opinions not very popular and Ill drop it.But if someones paying the same amount for a deer tag you are they have every right to kill whatever makes them happy as long as its a legal deer.And the guys shooting the 1 1/2 yr old bucks arent the guys doing all the bitching, so apparently it does make them happy.Again, sorry, I wasnt trying to start an argument and I wont bring it up again.Also, sorry this got so
fishorhunt
New Member
On the subject of changing tags for next year I like the earn a buck plan, whether its at a check point or going doe only for one year then the following year - if you took a doe you get a buck license. It wouldn't be popular to some but it would sure give you a feel for how many hunters just pick up a gun one weekend a year vs. those who are in it for the long haul.
On the QDM topic, our group implemented a fine system for those who wanted to participate. Most of the guys I hunt with participate in a local 'big buck' contest. The key is participation is optional. We have two guys new to hunting who don't participate and took yearling bucks. The rest of us past up 110 and lower class bucks and only shot at (note shot at) large bucks. We took 10 does, 2 small bucks and 3 120 class bucks. We've done this for 3 years now and can definitely tell the difference in our deer herd.
On the QDM topic, our group implemented a fine system for those who wanted to participate. Most of the guys I hunt with participate in a local 'big buck' contest. The key is participation is optional. We have two guys new to hunting who don't participate and took yearling bucks. The rest of us past up 110 and lower class bucks and only shot at (note shot at) large bucks. We took 10 does, 2 small bucks and 3 120 class bucks. We've done this for 3 years now and can definitely tell the difference in our deer herd.
G
Gianni
Guest
The problem with 'earn a buck tag' schemes is that people like me who only get one tag, well one for bow and one for gun anyway. We go out and hunt, then if the buck of a lifetime walks by we have to pass? He's called the buck of a lifetime for one reason; your odds of seeing him again are slim.
Maybe this is everyone's way of saying that weekend warriors don't deserve to shoot bucks, but to tell you the truth those people are some of the best our sport has to offer. Milo Hansen is one example of such a person who has been a very positive influence on deer hunting.
Maybe this is everyone's way of saying that weekend warriors don't deserve to shoot bucks, but to tell you the truth those people are some of the best our sport has to offer. Milo Hansen is one example of such a person who has been a very positive influence on deer hunting.
B
buckknife
Guest
I dont think we need check stations,and i have filled out many cards over the years on my havest,they do send them out,or used to anyway.
Dont need an increase in any deer tag,could drop the price on the first doe wouldnt hurt my feelings none.
Now about letting those basket bucks go,genetics have a big role in maken big antlered deer,if you have bad genes and bucks with small racks in the area and they are not young deer and you pass on them year after year and only shoot the big racked fellers whos gonna be around to breed the doe?
That may sound crazy but i have seen some huge bodied bucks with antlers that wont even make 100 hardly and they were with a good bunch of doe's.
About 4 years ago we decided to put the hurts on these bucks during shotgun season,if he looked like a good size deer and little antlers we poped em,we are now seeing more bigger antlered deer than ever for there age.
Dont assume every basket buck will turn out to be a 150 or better if they are a good size deer to begin with.
Dont need an increase in any deer tag,could drop the price on the first doe wouldnt hurt my feelings none.
Now about letting those basket bucks go,genetics have a big role in maken big antlered deer,if you have bad genes and bucks with small racks in the area and they are not young deer and you pass on them year after year and only shoot the big racked fellers whos gonna be around to breed the doe?
That may sound crazy but i have seen some huge bodied bucks with antlers that wont even make 100 hardly and they were with a good bunch of doe's.
About 4 years ago we decided to put the hurts on these bucks during shotgun season,if he looked like a good size deer and little antlers we poped em,we are now seeing more bigger antlered deer than ever for there age.
Dont assume every basket buck will turn out to be a 150 or better if they are a good size deer to begin with.
My intentions were not to upset anyone here I'm just stating that alot of people are putting down others who shoot small bucks. I don't agree with shooting them but to someone else this is a trophy. I think if they raise the price of the tags to $50 for a any-sex then you will have more smaller bucks taken. If someone pays that much for a tag then they will be more apt to shoot a smaller buck when it comes down to the end of the season. I figure no matter which way they go I'll get a tag. Once again I didn't mean to upset anyone with my last post.
Lxshooter, for what its worth you didnt upset me either. I'm not sure if some guys interpreted what I said to be putting down those who shoot small bucks. I'm not, I've shot many small bucks in the past and they all ment something to me at the time. Thats not what I'm talking about.
The guys I'm talking about are the guys who genuinely could not care less about antlers. Like a guy I work with, a great guy who happens to not care squat about antlers. Naturally he always shoots a buck opening morning, usually a big one because that is what happens to walk by first. He shot a 158" gross 9 point a couple years back and just jammed the antlers up in the rafters of his old storage garage with the others. I'm surprised he keeps them at all. I said "for crying out loud man, thats like eating a 15 lb walleye for shore lunch!!". He just looks at me like I'm goofy (maybe I am). This guy is tighter than tree bark and I guarantee you he would be happy to save money and just shoot a doe, but the price is the same so he shoots whatever he sees. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesnt help to reduce the population or balance the herd much. He hunts over the fence from me, so naturally this drives me bonkers being an antler nut and all.
About half the guys I know are like that, they just want to get their 50lbs of venison for baloney and make it home in time for the game. Nothing wrong with that at all, just looking for a soultion to population and herd balance problems that could be done on a more voulntary basis. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to shoot. "Earn a buck", now that IS telling you what you can shoot.
Hope this explains my position better.
The guys I'm talking about are the guys who genuinely could not care less about antlers. Like a guy I work with, a great guy who happens to not care squat about antlers. Naturally he always shoots a buck opening morning, usually a big one because that is what happens to walk by first. He shot a 158" gross 9 point a couple years back and just jammed the antlers up in the rafters of his old storage garage with the others. I'm surprised he keeps them at all. I said "for crying out loud man, thats like eating a 15 lb walleye for shore lunch!!". He just looks at me like I'm goofy (maybe I am). This guy is tighter than tree bark and I guarantee you he would be happy to save money and just shoot a doe, but the price is the same so he shoots whatever he sees. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesnt help to reduce the population or balance the herd much. He hunts over the fence from me, so naturally this drives me bonkers being an antler nut and all.
About half the guys I know are like that, they just want to get their 50lbs of venison for baloney and make it home in time for the game. Nothing wrong with that at all, just looking for a soultion to population and herd balance problems that could be done on a more voulntary basis. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to shoot. "Earn a buck", now that IS telling you what you can shoot.
Hope this explains my position better.
dblmainbeam
Member
I think if you raise the price of a either sex tag your just going to lose hunters. Lower the price of the doe tags and increase the amount to be sold. I know a few guys who bought as many tags as they could and havent used any of them and all the doe tags were sold out in the two counties I hunt in before bow season even started. I would have bought a couple of doe tags if Id known the were going to sell out so fast.
I know T-roy was talking about me when he said he knew someone who didn't post the pic of their deer.It is not that I didn't want to it is just that I never got a picture of it(I know,memories).But I am not worried about posting a pic of any deer I shoot on here because this is what the site is all about.My profile pic is of a nice 7 point,a buck many would have passed on but a trophy to me not to mention a very fun hunt.
Also,when my son gets old enough to go hunting with me,which should be in about 3 more years,you guys might get tired of the pics I post on here of every deer he hopefully shoots.As far as the prices of tags,I think doe tags need to be lowered or given out so the doe herd is cut.
Also,when my son gets old enough to go hunting with me,which should be in about 3 more years,you guys might get tired of the pics I post on here of every deer he hopefully shoots.As far as the prices of tags,I think doe tags need to be lowered or given out so the doe herd is cut.