scout
New Member
With every pic posted on this site we have again shot ourselves in the foot. They are watching
Location! NOT IOWA (no deer left)
Why beg'em to stand on your door step.
Follow the money......this is a wonderfully informative site with great people. But it also has a counterproductive wake behind it.
Did you see how many fewer fishing licenses were sold this year? The DNR will be looking hard for $. I hope it won't come in the form of non-resident tags. They = outfitters = leasing.
I'm hosting a non-resident friend bowhunting this season and don't feel sorry for absentee landlords either.
Location! NOT IOWA (no deer left)
Why beg'em to stand on your door step.
Follow the money......this is a wonderfully informative site with great people. But it also has a counterproductive wake behind it.
Did you see how many fewer fishing licenses were sold this year? The DNR will be looking hard for $. I hope it won't come in the form of non-resident tags. They = outfitters = leasing.
I'm hosting a non-resident friend bowhunting this season and don't feel sorry for absentee landlords either.
Deer are only worth what people will pay. The guys that whine about not having a place to hunt are the ones who drive the price up by leasing the ground. I guess its just easier these days to open your check book than it is to make friends with a farmer. I cant see myself buying a piece of ground that I cant even put a house on, just for a place to hunt. I see what your saying, eventually in some way we all pay. Leasing ground is like leasing a car, you might as well just be throwing your money away. If your gonna spend the money, why not put it towards a piece of ground as a investment, something that might have a little bit of turnover some day. Leasing is a big snowball effect, if one guy does it then the next guy figures he might as well to. Im sure alot of guys on here lease land on this site, and thats their buisness, this is just my opinion.
alaskanwhtail
New Member
I look for true love, a women with 1000 acres, love is free...
SaskGuy
Active Member
Fred, you can always move to Canada if you don't want to ever pay to hunt. I seriously it will ever happen, at least in Saskatchewan. The DNR regulates the outfitters well (they do a poor job elsewhere) and most of the good old boys that own land up here like to hunt but have absolutley no idea the value that is associated with Whitetail deer in North America. They'll always go out to shoot a buck for sausage but they throw the horns out for the dog and don't care the difference between a 120 buck and a 190 buck. I don't see it ever changing in my life time. The ones who do hunt are older and like I explained, the younger landowners don't hunt, are happy to let me and consider the deer we highly covet, "A Nuicance". I know this has nothing to do with leasing, just a blurb for ScottIC. Sorry guys!
Waukon1
Well-Known Member
If I look at it from the farmer's eyes; he's been probably farming the property for 30years and paying for it for 20. He has every right to make extra $$$. But I agree from the hunting community that it's a slippery slope. I am not for leasing, but Pandora's box has been opened. In my opinion it will effect all of us here one way or another. I know that some guys are not for the govt. stepping in and handling everything, but in this case I would be happy to see Iowa some how make it against the law. Very unlikely.
Ghost I hope your new hunting neighbor's don't screw up what you have going, best of luck to you and to the rest of us.
Ghost I hope your new hunting neighbor's don't screw up what you have going, best of luck to you and to the rest of us.
JNRBRONC
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I guess its just easier these days to open your check book than it is to make friends with a farmer.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can we slow the trend of leasing by becoming friends with the landowners? How about helping out with some of the chores associated with land ownership in return for hunting rights? Time=money? Just points to ponder.
I guess its just easier these days to open your check book than it is to make friends with a farmer.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can we slow the trend of leasing by becoming friends with the landowners? How about helping out with some of the chores associated with land ownership in return for hunting rights? Time=money? Just points to ponder.
alaskanwhtail
New Member
I've heard this phrase a few times "Come haying season then hunt all you want"
Rackaddict
Life Member
I don't know what the stats are in Iowa but here in Missouri the latest numbers show that the total numbers of hunters are decreasing and the average age is increasing. If that trend continues then aquiring land to hunt will be easier in the future, at least here anyway.
It may be that hunters here are going elsewhere, like Iowa, to lease land to hunt hoping for a Monster Buck.
I would be interested to see what the age breakdown and numbers of resident Iowa hunters there are and if the trend is nation wide.
voteyoursport.com
It may be that hunters here are going elsewhere, like Iowa, to lease land to hunt hoping for a Monster Buck.
I would be interested to see what the age breakdown and numbers of resident Iowa hunters there are and if the trend is nation wide.
voteyoursport.com
J
JakeF
Guest
We farm and own several acres in NW Missouri probably around 5000 acres but theres a couple of the guys that basically have ever thing else around that lease ever thing ever year and it does suck. All the locals that used to have places to hunt seem to just assume they can hunt on us or roadhunt which is a major problem here. We all hunt and several family friends and let a few others hunt but you got to draw the line some where.It takes away from the locals that have lived and hunted here all there life,granted some of the lessors are a better deal than some of the trash locals but it works both ways,Just wish it would go back 10 years or so.Kinda makes a guy glad my areas not as loaded with monsters as Illinois ,Iowa, Kansas.
I have made it very clear in the past that I'm against leasing. I don't feel it is right to basicly sell the deer hunting when the deer are suposedly a public commodity. What would happen if we could change the liability laws? If I lease your ground to run cattle and a cow gets through your fence onto a road and is hit by a car and kills the driver as well as the cow. As I understand the current laws you and I are both liable because it was my cow but your fence and property and you were renting the facility. What if this were to apply to hunting leases? If the deer become the property of the leasee and leasor owns the property and food plots which draw and hold the deer then they both should be responsible for auto accidents involving deer.
I also agree with the comments about all the bragging and pictures drawing more attention to our areas. As long as we all think of deer hunting in terms of antler size and that the best hunters are the ones who get the largest horns we are killing our sport.
I also have advocated the licensing and regulation of outfitters in Iowa. Bring in DNR dollars through large license fees for outfitters based on the number of hunters, fees charges, amount of land leased, and the number and sex of deer harvested. A $1000.00 fees would be a drop in the bucket for some outfitters hosting 100 hunters at $4000 or $5000 a crack. That's a half million dollars!
I'll quit ranting now but I think it is important that some thing be done. The more we say that leasing is inevitable the more it will become so!
I also agree with the comments about all the bragging and pictures drawing more attention to our areas. As long as we all think of deer hunting in terms of antler size and that the best hunters are the ones who get the largest horns we are killing our sport.
I also have advocated the licensing and regulation of outfitters in Iowa. Bring in DNR dollars through large license fees for outfitters based on the number of hunters, fees charges, amount of land leased, and the number and sex of deer harvested. A $1000.00 fees would be a drop in the bucket for some outfitters hosting 100 hunters at $4000 or $5000 a crack. That's a half million dollars!
I'll quit ranting now but I think it is important that some thing be done. The more we say that leasing is inevitable the more it will become so!
I don't see how you can draw the conclusion that a landowner is selling the deer. The DNR is selling the deer when a hunter buys a tag. Landowners are selling the opportunity to access the animals on THEIR land.
Should trespassing laws be suspended during deer season so that a free-for-all white-tail massacre can happen? Nomadic groups of hunters can wander freely through the countryside shooting everything in their path...the idea of the Bill of Rights takes a back seat when it comes to some people's recreational activities...especially when one citizen has an advantage over another in terms of property ownership.
Should trespassing laws be suspended during deer season so that a free-for-all white-tail massacre can happen? Nomadic groups of hunters can wander freely through the countryside shooting everything in their path...the idea of the Bill of Rights takes a back seat when it comes to some people's recreational activities...especially when one citizen has an advantage over another in terms of property ownership.
Fishbonker
Life Member
Hey Ghost, have you ever heard of a "good can of worms"? The civillity on this site is great. I have to applaude everyone on this. This topic is only a couple of hours old and it has two pages already.
I had access to several hundred acres, joining my 11 acres of heaven, that I had access for hunting. It was leased a few years back to an outfitter. I was crushed. I about gave up on hunting. But I have mellowed over time and have come to realize its all about land owners rights, which I support, unless they are gonna put up a large hog confinement building or put in a land fill that will directly impact my life. Leased hunting ground doesn't keep me from enjoying my ground, so it is well with in the owners right to lease.
I have to ask myslef what leasing does to hunting, this has been coverd, much more eloqunetly than I could, I just don't want to end up with every piece of ground in Iowa either leased or owned by hunting groups.
FWIW
The 'Bonker
I had access to several hundred acres, joining my 11 acres of heaven, that I had access for hunting. It was leased a few years back to an outfitter. I was crushed. I about gave up on hunting. But I have mellowed over time and have come to realize its all about land owners rights, which I support, unless they are gonna put up a large hog confinement building or put in a land fill that will directly impact my life. Leased hunting ground doesn't keep me from enjoying my ground, so it is well with in the owners right to lease.
I have to ask myslef what leasing does to hunting, this has been coverd, much more eloqunetly than I could, I just don't want to end up with every piece of ground in Iowa either leased or owned by hunting groups.
FWIW
The 'Bonker
You guys live in the best hunting terroritory in the world having an almost endless supply of farms to seek access. I've hunted Iowa a couple of times and loved it, planning to come back next year if drawn. And yes, since I didn't know anyone the outfitter/lease deal was the only way to go. I have mixed feelings about leaseing. In NC, it's not about property being leased from under you, many land owners are selling to big developers and it's leveled, roads cut and paved and houses built in a month or so. At least where you guys live, the land is still intack. Here it's destroyed forever. So... my hunting buddies and I have only one option, thats to lease. Our club has 19 members and 1,913 acres in 4 tracts all in the same county, all owned by the same family. It's about the only large tracts of available land left around this area. Thats about 100 acres per member and we think is a super senerio for a bunch of whitetail crazies like us.. So, don't moan to much! You guys have it MADE!
I certainly did not mean to imply that tresspass laws or any others be suspended for a deer massacre. I fully support land owner rights and am one myself.
what I don't support is the idea that we also own the wildlife on that land. Yes the DNR is selling the deer but they are using the money toward a common good by supporting wildlife and fish research programs that will help our children and grandchildren enjoy some of what we have known. They also buy public acess ground and state parks and lots of other projects. The leasing land owner does none of these things, and in most cases doesn't even do any habitate improvements. They just collect money from some to hunt the deer or tukeys or pheasants which could have been on my ground yesterday or tommrow. I just feel that those involved in leasing should have to pass some of that money back for the common good and share some of the responsibilites. Lower auto insurance rates because of increased leasing liability would be passing money back to the common good.
what I don't support is the idea that we also own the wildlife on that land. Yes the DNR is selling the deer but they are using the money toward a common good by supporting wildlife and fish research programs that will help our children and grandchildren enjoy some of what we have known. They also buy public acess ground and state parks and lots of other projects. The leasing land owner does none of these things, and in most cases doesn't even do any habitate improvements. They just collect money from some to hunt the deer or tukeys or pheasants which could have been on my ground yesterday or tommrow. I just feel that those involved in leasing should have to pass some of that money back for the common good and share some of the responsibilites. Lower auto insurance rates because of increased leasing liability would be passing money back to the common good.
Bow we are somewhat in agreement on that level. Those making money off of the hunting industry in Iowa should have to give something back. We already by sin or luxury taxes on things like alchohol, tobacco, and high end vehicles. I would say a luxury tax for leases on recreational land usage would be a fair approach to giving back to good land stewardship and conservation...so long as that money was earmarked to go back into such a program.
I just see leasing as a good source of business for rural economies...and ultimately a source of tax revenue for the state.
Raising a tax on hunting leases would probably deter some farmers/landowners from participating...maybe they could reduce commodity subsidies on land that doubles as hunting lease ground. That would seem to be the most logical approach.
I just see leasing as a good source of business for rural economies...and ultimately a source of tax revenue for the state.
Raising a tax on hunting leases would probably deter some farmers/landowners from participating...maybe they could reduce commodity subsidies on land that doubles as hunting lease ground. That would seem to be the most logical approach.
G
Guest
Guest
This is a subject hit alot of folks hard.You are right Scott.The farmers are gonna end up kickin themselves in the rear because some of the folks that they lease to may or may not respect the land that they are on.I have gotten foryunate in this aspect.Alot of the land I hunt is family friends over the years.They let folks hunt and if there are problems then that person is not allowed back.The leasing issue will bite back.Unlees you are established like some of the outfitters in Iowa and surrounding states.
JNRBRONC
Well-Known Member
This from the August 28, 2004 Farm Bureau Spokesman. There was also another article about on page 16a about a farmer who had so many requests from hunters to hunt his CRP that he opened a "shooting preserve". One neighbor has leased all hunting rights for a calendar year (I think it went for $2K). Another neighbor commented that he knows of Pennsylvania bowhunters who are willing to pay $500/week to hunt Iowa during the rut.
Farmers find fee-based hunting a good source of extra income
An increasing number of Iowa farmers are trying to earn extra income by improving the wildlife habitat on their land and selling hunting leases.
A lot of people are looking for a good place to hunt, and theres been an awful lot of interest from landowners who are either allowing fee hunting on their property now or want to be able to offer it in the future, says Bob Wells, an Iowa State University Extension farm management field specialist in Oskaloosa.
Hunting leases provide visiting sportsman the exclusive rights t hunt on the landowners property in exchange for a fee. Landowners can offer the leases for one day, one weekend or the entire season, Wells says. Or they can limit the leases to just one particular species, such as deer or quail.
What Iowa farmers are finding out is there are people on the East Coast and other areas of the United States that are willing to make a one-week trip to Iowa primarily to deer hunt, but also pheasant and turkey hunt, says Mark Carlton, an ISU Extension agronomist in Albia.
Wells says hunting lease fees range from $3 an acre up to $200 an acre, depending on the availability and quality of wildlife.
Its not necessarily a big money maker, but its something that people can do to pick up some extra money, Wells says.
Important Considerations
However, Wells cautions that there are several factors landowners must consider before entering a hunting lease.
in Iowa, we have a law (the Iowa Recreation Hunters Act) that protects landowners if they let somebody come on their property and hunt, but if they are charging a fee for it, that protection doesnt extend to the landowner, he says.
Landowners need to make sure they have liability coverage in case of a hunting accident or injury, Wells says. They should also get the lease in writing and interview potential groups before signing the lease.
You need to be comfortable with the fact that those people understand hunting rules and protocols: that they are going to shoot a deer and not a cow, Wells says.
Landowners also need to check with the Natural Resource Conservation Service before planting on CRP acres.
You want to make sure that you get permission to amend your CRP contracts before you start planting, Carlton says. Otherwise, you can get kicked out of the program, and thats a big financial loss.
Farmers find fee-based hunting a good source of extra income
An increasing number of Iowa farmers are trying to earn extra income by improving the wildlife habitat on their land and selling hunting leases.
A lot of people are looking for a good place to hunt, and theres been an awful lot of interest from landowners who are either allowing fee hunting on their property now or want to be able to offer it in the future, says Bob Wells, an Iowa State University Extension farm management field specialist in Oskaloosa.
Hunting leases provide visiting sportsman the exclusive rights t hunt on the landowners property in exchange for a fee. Landowners can offer the leases for one day, one weekend or the entire season, Wells says. Or they can limit the leases to just one particular species, such as deer or quail.
What Iowa farmers are finding out is there are people on the East Coast and other areas of the United States that are willing to make a one-week trip to Iowa primarily to deer hunt, but also pheasant and turkey hunt, says Mark Carlton, an ISU Extension agronomist in Albia.
Wells says hunting lease fees range from $3 an acre up to $200 an acre, depending on the availability and quality of wildlife.
Its not necessarily a big money maker, but its something that people can do to pick up some extra money, Wells says.
Important Considerations
However, Wells cautions that there are several factors landowners must consider before entering a hunting lease.
in Iowa, we have a law (the Iowa Recreation Hunters Act) that protects landowners if they let somebody come on their property and hunt, but if they are charging a fee for it, that protection doesnt extend to the landowner, he says.
Landowners need to make sure they have liability coverage in case of a hunting accident or injury, Wells says. They should also get the lease in writing and interview potential groups before signing the lease.
You need to be comfortable with the fact that those people understand hunting rules and protocols: that they are going to shoot a deer and not a cow, Wells says.
Landowners also need to check with the Natural Resource Conservation Service before planting on CRP acres.
You want to make sure that you get permission to amend your CRP contracts before you start planting, Carlton says. Otherwise, you can get kicked out of the program, and thats a big financial loss.
How about the way commercial hunting drives up realestate prices. Great for the guy wanting to sell, but how about the farmers wanting to purchase more ground for their operations? There is a dollar amount where the cost of the land exceeds the ability to make a profit from cash crops.
I had never thought of that aspect until a farming friend pointed out that it is happening in our area.
I had never thought of that aspect until a farming friend pointed out that it is happening in our area.