Buck Hollow Sporting Goods - click or touch to visit their website Midwest Habitat Company
Hi all
I would like to create a plot like StrmChzr has in post#75 http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/showpost.php?p=138883&postcount=75
Does a plot like that get disc`ed or tilled under every year? If so will a quad w/ a disc work or do i need an actual tiller?
Also, do you plant rye as a cover crop for brassicas?
My plot is 150x75, and iv`e got PTT, Barnapoli rape, jumbo ladino, and alice white clover(all from welter).
DSC00537.jpg
 
Hi all
Does a plot like that get disc`ed or tilled under every year? If so will a quad w/ a disc work or do i need an actual tiller?

No...that is a clover plot that is left in clover for 3-5 years, so the winter rye was a one time nurse crop. Clover is easy to seed even with small or no equipment.

Also, do you plant rye as a cover crop for brassicas?
My plot is 150x75, and iv`e got PTT, Barnapoli rape, jumbo ladino, and alice white clover(all from welter).

Never mix cereals like rye or oats with brassicas because they will shade and compete with the brassicas for nitrogen.

Plant your brassicas alone with no clovers or rye with them.

Winter rye and clover can be planted in very late August with winter rye and they go together like peanut butter and jelly!

The rye will provide a fall and winter attractant and the clover will take over in the spring and last for years.

Plant your brassicas in a seperate portion of your food plot for best results...:way:
 
Last edited:
No...that is a clover plot that is left in clover for 3-5 years, so the winter rye was a one time nurse crop. Clover is easy to seed even with small or no equipment.



Never mix cereals like rye or oats with brassicas because they will shade and compete with the brassicas for nitrogen.

Plant your brassicas alone with no clovers or rye with them.

Winter rye and clover can be planted in very late August with winter rye and they go together like peanut butter and jelly!

The rye will provide a fall and winter attractant and the clover will take over in the spring and last for years.

Plant your brassicas in a seperate portion of your food plot for best results...:way:

In a crunch last September, I planted a buckmasters Feeding Frenzy in my 1.5 acre plot behind my house. It's a mix of oats, rye, clover, and brassicas, if memory serves me. It came in really nice and the deer hit it pretty well, although they didn't bother with the brassicas very much. I also overseeded a portion of it with turnips. This winter, I frost seeded clover (ladino and red) over it to hopefully get a full clover plot established. Until a few weeks ago, everything was looking good and the clover was getting thick. Then, before I knew it, the brassicas shot up. It's put out long shoots and some have even gone to flower. What is the best course of action in this situation? I can easily go back and mow it, which is my first thought, or would it be better to disc it in and start over from scratch? I thought that the brassicas would just die out over the winter, but obviously that isn't the case. The clover appears to be doing well underneath it all. I'd like to wind up with a solid clover plot that I overseed with Rye in the fall and possibly disc in some strips of other stuff.
 
I would try clipping it first or use a very light does of roundup to kill the brassicas and not the clovers. 2-4DB would also work (NOT 2-4D)

Brassicas planted in September don't get a chance to grow much...normally we plant them in July for optimum growth and it is then then will be too shading to plant with other crops.

Just clip yours before they go to seed if you can and if they still come back then I would spray them...;)
 
I would try clipping it first or use a very light does of roundup to kill the brassicas and not the clovers. 2-4DB would also work (NOT 2-4D)

Brassicas planted in September don't get a chance to grow much...normally we plant them in July for optimum growth and it is then then will be too shading to plant with other crops.

Just clip yours before they go to seed if you can and if they still come back then I would spray them...;)

Thanks, that's kind of what I figured, but wasn't positive. I know a lot of folks swear by brassicas, but this may have cured me from planting it for a while. Clover and cereal grains seemed to be much more appetizing to my herd.
 
I have another question, if you'll entertain it.

I have been given the go ahead to plant a few plots on my KS lease. Much of the property is enrolled in CRP, but we finally got ahold of a map that shows exactly which areas are and aren't included. Most of this ground was row cropped in the past. I did a little trimming and clearing today and had a local farmer take a look at what I needed disced. The property was burned last week, so grass and weeds aren't a problem right now. The farmer is going to come back in a few days after things dry up a bit from the rain and do the discing for me.

Unfortunately, it will probably be 2-3 weeks before I can make it back down to the property to finish the prep work. I'm thinking that I may try to round up any weeds at that time and then come back the following week and plant clover and maybe some oats. Would this be wise, or would that be a little too late for a spring planting? I don't really have any more opportunities to disc because the CRP plantings will be growing strong in short order and I can't really drive a tractor through it wiht a 10' disc once it is up.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! I'm not absolutely hung up on the clover, I just thought it would be a good choice. Would it be ok to plant oats with it now and then overseed rye in the fall? I should have the ability to clip the oats once or twice if needed in the summer. Would there be a better spring planting to do now, keeping in mind that I won't be able to disc again in the fall? Another option I have would be to plant RR beans, but I'm only talking about a total of around 3 acres split between two plots. RR beans would be fairly easy to maintain and I would think that I could overseed with rye/wheat in the fall when they start to turn. Thanks in advance for any advice!
 
It's not to late to establish clover however the clover will most likely be to thick to overseed rye into this fall. You could add oats but you would need some means of clipping them off later this summer.

RR beans would be a great option as well and very easy to overseed rye into in late August and that would probably be my first choice if the farmer can plant them for you. :way:
 
It's not to late to establish clover however the clover will most likely be to thick to overseed rye into this fall. You could add oats but you would need some means of clipping them off later this summer.

RR beans would be a great option as well and very easy to overseed rye into in late August and that would probably be my first choice if the farmer can plant them for you. :way:

Thanks! I should be able to clip the oats, but I kind of like the idea of beans. I would be broadcasting the beans and would probably plant pretty heavy. Any recommendations on seeds per acre on a pretty solid deer density? I don't think it's nearly as high of a density as you have, but we're probably above average (It's not uncommon to see 10+ deer in a sit with no major food source). I could disc in the beans or I have access to a cultipacker. I'd think discing would be better but don't have any experience with beans. I know that you overseed rye right when the beans are starting to turn. Does it prove to be a good draw for the deer during the drying out phase? I would assume so, but I've never actually planted beans. Thanks!
 
Check the corn and soybean thread for more on the subject of beans but I plant heavily at 220,000 seeds per acre. You can disc them in lightly and then cultipack and you'll be good to go...:way:
 
Greetings dbltree, and thank you for replying to me/answering my questions.
Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Also, do you plant rye as a cover crop for brassicas?
My plot is 150x75, and iv`e got PTT, Barnapoli rape, jumbo ladino, and alice white clover(all from welter). </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Never mix cereals like rye or oats with brassicas because they will shade and compete with the brassicas for nitrogen.

Plant your brassicas alone with no clovers or rye with them.
Unfortunately i didn`t explain myself clearly here...tis my understanding the brassica`s should be planted end of july/beginning of august, so should i plant rye now and the brassicas later(end of july/beginning of august)? Will the rye have died off by then?
If it hasn`t died off will a disc "till" it under? or will i need to mow/weedwack it down first? Thanks again.
 
Unfortunately i didn`t explain myself clearly here...tis my understanding the brassica`s should be planted end of july/beginning of august, so should i plant rye now and the brassicas later(end of july/beginning of august)? Will the rye have died off by then?
If it hasn`t died off will a disc "till" it under? or will i need to mow/weedwack it down first?

Winter rye is a fall planted cereal so we plant it late August/early September for fall through winter grazing and usually add peas to "spice" it up even more.

So yes...you plant the brassicas in mid to late July, so waht to plant in the interim?

I suggest an annual clover like berseem or crimson clover or chickling vetch because they are legumes and will provide a good share of the nitrogen your brassicas will require.

Check recent posts in the brassica thread for more details on that subject...:way:
 
I checked on the High Sugar ryegrass/clover mix aptly named "Sweet Spot" on April 17th and the deer had already been working it over.

SS3.jpg


SS2-1.jpg


SS1-1.jpg


Birdsfoot trefoil is something I wouldn't give two hoots and a holler for but one of the "Deer Doctors" suggested that Sucarseed add it to the mix but as you can see here...deer are eating eveything but the BFT.

SSBFT.jpg


BFT seed is expensive and I would like to see them leave that component out but otherwise this mix has proven thus far to be very attractive to deer and worth considering in those areas where a long term planting is needed.

Two years ago I decided to use up some three year old Alice white clover seed when I fall seeded my winter rye and the following spring I no-tilled RR soybeans and nuked it hard with glyphosate. It didn't even phase the Alice clover and when deer decimated the beans I again disced the whole plot with a big 16' disc and planted it to winter rye and winter triticale.

Amazingly, despite my best efforts to kill the Alice white clover it is coming on strong this spring! :eek: :D

AliceinWT.jpg


AliceinWR.jpg


In another month I will again till it under to plant milo and soybeans but I would not be the least surprised to find the Alice clover coming on strong again next spring! If you desire a drought resistant high quality white clover that is reasonably priced...Alice is hard to beat!:way:

Alice White Clover
 
I was asked to plant several different persian and berseem clovers late last fall to test thier winter hardiness for Oregon Seed, something I was happy to do but scoffed at the idea that any of these October planted annuals could possibly survive.

Many did not of course but some of them not only survived but are thriving!

Persian clover

Persianclover.jpg


Berseem clover

Berseemclover.jpg


It is great to know that that seed companies such as Oregon Seed continue to tap the seed bank for new, better varieties and I'll be spring planting more of these seeds to see how they do as well.

I am also testing various white clovers in a number of test plots on several farms like this one

Testplots.jpg


All fall planted with winter rye so we'll follow growth and usage and see how they pan out

Whiteclovertesting.jpg


I almost never plant winter rye without planting either white, red or a mix of clovers because failing to do so is something akin to sending a team out on the field without linebackers... ;)

Fall planting is absolutely the easist and most successful method of clover establishment and in the spring the clover springs to life minus the weeds...

Fallplantedclover.jpg


The winter rye will soon outgrow it's usefulness and I will clip it off leaving the clover behind

Fallplantedcloverwithrye.jpg


This is a mix of white and red clover planted 2 years ago with winter rye...it's lush and clean this spring.

Establishedclover.jpg


Plant an inexpensive red clover with winter rye to till under for brassicas or establish your perennial clovers with a fall planting of winter rye and avoid problems with wet spring weather and associated weed problems.

Remember to divide your plots so that clover is a portion of each one but not the only source of feed such as I have done in my own strip plots.

CIMG1001.jpg
 
My Alice white clover is gowing like crazy leaving the appearance that is isn't being grazed.

AlicewhiteClover4-30.jpg


Closer inspection reveals the truth however and deer are indeed feeding heavily on the lush clovers on all farms.

Alicegrazed4-30.jpg


Food sources are plentiful right now so intensive grazing on an single food source would be unusual but does heavy with fawn are busy packing away the protein by feeding in the lush clover plots..... :)
 
Great looking clover Paul! My clover is doing great too except ........it is full of thistles! What can I spray on the thistles that won't harm the clover, or is there even such a thing available??
 
Great looking clover Paul! My clover is doing great too except ........it is full of thistles! What can I spray on the thistles that won't harm the clover, or is there even such a thing available??

I have some too and since clover is fairly resistant to lite applications of roundup I just spot spray them with gly. I also keep them clipped so they don't go to seed :eek: :D

There are some other herbicides but they are extremely expensive to use on a small plot.
 
Thanks, I was thinking that periodic mowing may help keep them at bay and I have some gly so I'l give her a try.:way:
 
My white clover fields are extremely dense with tall clover plants that are probably getting unpalatable. With all the other food available, I'm not worried about the deer not utilizing it and its getting so dense that it is probably helping to control weeds and grasses. Is there a downside to letting it go until maybe an early summer mowing when the deer would begin to utilize it more?
 
My white clover fields are extremely dense with tall clover plants that are probably getting unpalatable. With all the other food available, I'm not worried about the deer not utilizing it and its getting so dense that it is probably helping to control weeds and grasses. Is there a downside to letting it go until maybe an early summer mowing when the deer would begin to utilize it more?

as long as weeds aren't a problem I have waited til mid summer to clip mine sometimes so not usually a big problem.

I prefer to clip it fairly often but I'm not sure the clover or the deer really care sometimes...:D
 
Understanding the land, crops and soils is not unlike hunting whitetails...much of it cannot be gleaned from a book or a classroom but rather a willingness to become intimately familiar through astute observations over a period of years.

Landowners wonder when and if they should add fertilizer to established clover plots but generally we can tell simply by observing clover growth and color as with any crop.

Lush thick green clover that is not being harvested for hay will rarely need additional fertilizer if soil nutrient needs were properly addressed via soil test at planting. On the other hand clover that is short, pale, thin and appearing stressed is certainly lacking and further soil testing will yield answers to what may be missing.

I have tested the reaction of whitetails to applications of potasium and phosphorus and even supplemental nitrogen (despite the fact clover is a legume it is only too happy to use added N) but on otherwise already healthy clover I have found no preference or increased usage by whitetails.

Healthy clovers grown on fertile soils rarely need much weed control because they grow too thick and are too dominate for most annual weeds and grasses to compete with. Alice white clover is a great example because it was bred purposely to be sown into grass pastures and has to be aggressive enough to not only survive but thrive in that kind of environment.

Many clovers being advertised and sold to unsuspecting hunter/landowners today do not exhibit these aggressive tendencies and this then leads to increased herbicide applications that otherwise would be unnecessary.

This lush Alice white clover has never received any fertilizer even at establishment because soil fertility was alread high and P&K at optimum levels and three years later it still grows so fast I clip it frequently. A dozen thistle plants are all that has invaded...

ThistleinAliceWClover.jpg


It's only mid May and this is the second time I have clipped this plot

ClippingClover.jpg


Alice is all but immune to glyphosate (Roundup) so if the thistles persist I will nuke them individually but they are not fond of being mowed.

ClippedClover5-15.jpg


I have been helping a friend establish food plots in an old pasture that is very run down and hadn't been tilled probably ever and there 400#'s of pel lime and 400#'s of 6-24-24 brought the clover to life. By using crop rotations and incorporating cover crops we will eventually lesson the need for commercial fertilizers, so don't make clover "the plan" but part of a complete plan that includes several easily rotated crops.

Alice and other common clovers cost barely $30 an acre for seed so don't be afraid to use these clovers as both a food source for whitetails and a green manure, soil builder and source of nitrogen for the next crop.... ;)
 
Top Bottom