Thanks, I plan on planting Labor day weekend with another rye/pea/oat/clover plot that I have to do down there.
Will clover (by itself after rye dies out) around a pond work?
Clover
- Thread starter dbltree
- Start date
Thanks, I plan on planting Labor day weekend with another rye/pea/oat/clover plot that I have to do down there.
Will clover (by itself after rye dies out) around a pond work?
LoessHillsArcher
PMA Member
Daver
PMA Member
I had a small pond built a few years ago and I have clover around it. For the most part it is all good, but the deer will have that clover cropped SHORT by the end of the winter, as in mainly all dirt, and then if you get some heavy snow melt or spring rains before it can get growing again you can get some erosion.
I have since gone with about a 10 foot buffer ringing the pond with regular grass and then clover outside of that. It seems to be a better way than clover right up to the edge of the water.
dbltree
Super Moderator
September 1st, 2011
Early fall is my favorite time to establish clovers....rarely do we have wet weather to contend with, weeds are never a problem and sowed with winter rye there are usually few if any weeds the following spring.
I broadcast the rye, oats and peas first and lightly till them in while pulling the cultipacker behind or if the soil is loose I just let the tiller free wheel over the soil followed by the packer. Even then a few seeds don't get covered the first time and you can just barely see the tiny clover seeds next to the larger seeds.
After cultipacking the first time I either broadcast with a bag seeder or ATV seeder
I usually set the broadcasters on the light side and sow seeds first one way and then go back over it cross ways for more even coverage.
Once the seed is on we go back over it with the cultipacker with the tiller raised up
The second pass will usually cover any remaining large seeds although with plentiful rainfall they will germinate right on the surface
In this case you can see the cross track pattern for even coverage, not necessary with a drill of course.
I usually go around the perimeter with both white and red clover and sow white clover in any odd areas, corners or edges difficult to work. That white clover will feed deer nearly year around and is the first thing they feed on when entering the field
After sowing 12 acres of rye/oats/peas/GHFR and clovers...we got 2" of rain and the dust is no longer flying! :way:
Sow white clovers at roughly 6#'s per acre and red clovers at 12-15# an acre or mix the two at slightly lower rates...no other crop other then alfalfa will provide so much high quality, high protein forage for such a long period of time...
Early fall is my favorite time to establish clovers....rarely do we have wet weather to contend with, weeds are never a problem and sowed with winter rye there are usually few if any weeds the following spring.
I broadcast the rye, oats and peas first and lightly till them in while pulling the cultipacker behind or if the soil is loose I just let the tiller free wheel over the soil followed by the packer. Even then a few seeds don't get covered the first time and you can just barely see the tiny clover seeds next to the larger seeds.
After cultipacking the first time I either broadcast with a bag seeder or ATV seeder
I usually set the broadcasters on the light side and sow seeds first one way and then go back over it cross ways for more even coverage.
Once the seed is on we go back over it with the cultipacker with the tiller raised up
The second pass will usually cover any remaining large seeds although with plentiful rainfall they will germinate right on the surface
In this case you can see the cross track pattern for even coverage, not necessary with a drill of course.
I usually go around the perimeter with both white and red clover and sow white clover in any odd areas, corners or edges difficult to work. That white clover will feed deer nearly year around and is the first thing they feed on when entering the field
After sowing 12 acres of rye/oats/peas/GHFR and clovers...we got 2" of rain and the dust is no longer flying! :way:
Sow white clovers at roughly 6#'s per acre and red clovers at 12-15# an acre or mix the two at slightly lower rates...no other crop other then alfalfa will provide so much high quality, high protein forage for such a long period of time...
risto2351
Well-Known Member
Skip,
Like 6 x 6 said it is very drought resistant and the deer love it.
I have another 1/2 acre field that was overgrown with foxtail that I
could not cut because both brush hogs were down. When I was able
to cut it the chicory is flourishing. I will frost seed this spring and should
be good to go. Tough stuff.
dbltree
Super Moderator
September 29th, 2011
The severe drought in SE Iowa was really hard on the white clover and most of it was pretty dormant thru the heat of the summer. With cooler weather and a little rain it's starting to come back and even though it doesn't look like much it's amazing how much deer utilize white clover even though they have soybeans, brassicas and other food sources only feet away.
Alice white clover really shines during droughts that will often kill "Buck on a Bag" clovers
White clover provides the missing link to provide a food source nearly year around and when combined with winter rye plantings the gap is completely closed.
Always make an effort to keep 10-20% of every plot in white clover, less if red clover is used with the rye combination and a little more in corn/soybean fields.
Start white clover in late August with the winter rye combination and you will avoid problems with wet weather and weeds and have a beautiful lush clover patch the following spring! :way:
The severe drought in SE Iowa was really hard on the white clover and most of it was pretty dormant thru the heat of the summer. With cooler weather and a little rain it's starting to come back and even though it doesn't look like much it's amazing how much deer utilize white clover even though they have soybeans, brassicas and other food sources only feet away.
Alice white clover really shines during droughts that will often kill "Buck on a Bag" clovers
White clover provides the missing link to provide a food source nearly year around and when combined with winter rye plantings the gap is completely closed.
Always make an effort to keep 10-20% of every plot in white clover, less if red clover is used with the rye combination and a little more in corn/soybean fields.
Start white clover in late August with the winter rye combination and you will avoid problems with wet weather and weeds and have a beautiful lush clover patch the following spring! :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
October 9th, 2011
It's been an abnormally dry fall here in SE Iowa so depending on the area and rain received germination has been slow in some places although all in all not to bad. The tiny clover plants however may germinate and die if dry weather persists so I'll have to keep an eye on some areas and frost seed additional clover if need be.
The great thing about establishing clovers with rye in the fall is...no weeds to contend with and the rye/oats/peas and radish keeps deer fed while the clover is becoming established.
White clover around the perimeter is a great way to have something for deer to eat year around including something the second they step into the field which helps take the pressure off from other crops.
White cover is better able to deal with some shade and low nitrogen along a timber or fence line when compared to most other crops and a great crop to plant in odd areas of the field which then allows us to have multiple crops in one centralized feeding area.
I always establish white clover with the winter rye/oat/forage pea/forage radish combination and add red clover as well. Generally the red clover will not last more then two years leaving the white clover to take over. A side note here is that the rye is being grazed heavily despite being immediately beside standing soybeans and corn and in time the clover will be as well.
The tiny clovers need about 6 weeks before hard killing freezes in the fall but certainly will tolerate light frosts. In the spring the clover will explode to life and usually will out compete any weeds at that time, the exception is perennial grasses which are easily controlled with clethodim.
Clovers are an extremely important yet economical tool that each landowner should utilize in every plot or field. As you can see even a narrow band along the edge, waterways or odd areas can be planted and even 1-2% of a field planted to well fertilized clover can feed a tremendous amount of whitetails.
I use red clovers primarily for a plow down and temporary food source and white clovers for perennial food sources but they can be combined and Alsike clover along with a number of annual clovers that include Berseem, Crimson, Persian, Arrowleaf and more can be incorporated into your habitat program.
If you forgot to include clover with your fall cereal planting...consider frost seeding it late this winter...your deer and your soils will be glad you did...
It's been an abnormally dry fall here in SE Iowa so depending on the area and rain received germination has been slow in some places although all in all not to bad. The tiny clover plants however may germinate and die if dry weather persists so I'll have to keep an eye on some areas and frost seed additional clover if need be.
The great thing about establishing clovers with rye in the fall is...no weeds to contend with and the rye/oats/peas and radish keeps deer fed while the clover is becoming established.
White clover around the perimeter is a great way to have something for deer to eat year around including something the second they step into the field which helps take the pressure off from other crops.
White cover is better able to deal with some shade and low nitrogen along a timber or fence line when compared to most other crops and a great crop to plant in odd areas of the field which then allows us to have multiple crops in one centralized feeding area.
I always establish white clover with the winter rye/oat/forage pea/forage radish combination and add red clover as well. Generally the red clover will not last more then two years leaving the white clover to take over. A side note here is that the rye is being grazed heavily despite being immediately beside standing soybeans and corn and in time the clover will be as well.
The tiny clovers need about 6 weeks before hard killing freezes in the fall but certainly will tolerate light frosts. In the spring the clover will explode to life and usually will out compete any weeds at that time, the exception is perennial grasses which are easily controlled with clethodim.
Clovers are an extremely important yet economical tool that each landowner should utilize in every plot or field. As you can see even a narrow band along the edge, waterways or odd areas can be planted and even 1-2% of a field planted to well fertilized clover can feed a tremendous amount of whitetails.
I use red clovers primarily for a plow down and temporary food source and white clovers for perennial food sources but they can be combined and Alsike clover along with a number of annual clovers that include Berseem, Crimson, Persian, Arrowleaf and more can be incorporated into your habitat program.
If you forgot to include clover with your fall cereal planting...consider frost seeding it late this winter...your deer and your soils will be glad you did...
Property where I hunt was just select harvested by a timber company in the last few weeks. Several areas have been opened up and new logging roads with exposed dirt. I thought I would try seeding the ones with adequate sun in areas near stands. Is it too late to bother with now? We have already had one frost. SHould I mess with any rye, or just wait and frost seed. These areas are hard to get to so they will be managed with backpack sprayer and a weedeater.
risto2351
Well-Known Member
I would save your time and energies until late winter for frost seeding.
I planted rye and GFR four weeks ago and with some rain it
still is not thriving. Getting colder and shorter days.
Just my opinion though.
dbltree
Super Moderator
As mentioned...to late for clover at this point and better off waiting to frost seed. Rye could be broadcast and it would grow but probably not enough to make any grazing this fall...
dbltree
Super Moderator
October 29th, 2011
White clover...simply one of the most economical yet most effective food sources we can plant to help attract and hold whitetails on our property year around. Planted in a safe well screened centralized feeding area it is a fantastic tool to help in our endeavor to provide year around food sources.
On every farm, every patch of white clover is obviously heavily grazed...
and it takes only very small areas to keep a lot of deer content and coming back for more...here white clover is part of a 3 way strip crop planting that provides white clover, rye/oats/peas/radish and red clover and a strip of brassicas.
The rye mix and brassicas are rotated yearly but the clover remains until it thins and I moved all of the strips over and plant brassicas in the old clover patch and re-establish new white clover in the fall with the rye mix.
This 170+" mature buck refuses to leave his sanctuary in the surrounding native grass stands except to feed in this small patch of Alice, KopuII and Jumbo Ladino white clover even though there are plenty of other food sources on the farm.
Don't make the mistake of planting 10 acres of white clover...10-20% of your food sources should be in white clover and in all but rare cases with extremely high deer densities that is more then enough. Don't make the mistake of thinking that highly touted "Buck on a Bag" clover seed is required to hold deer because in reality most of it is not drought resistant nor capable of withstanding heavy grazing. Provide outstanding bedding cover and safe sanctuary such as the buck above has and they will happily use any brand or variety or VNS white clover. A few I recommend are Alice, Durana, Patriot, KopuII and Jumbo Ladino but there are many many more that will work equally as well.
Clover Seed source
White clover...simply one of the most economical yet most effective food sources we can plant to help attract and hold whitetails on our property year around. Planted in a safe well screened centralized feeding area it is a fantastic tool to help in our endeavor to provide year around food sources.
On every farm, every patch of white clover is obviously heavily grazed...
and it takes only very small areas to keep a lot of deer content and coming back for more...here white clover is part of a 3 way strip crop planting that provides white clover, rye/oats/peas/radish and red clover and a strip of brassicas.
The rye mix and brassicas are rotated yearly but the clover remains until it thins and I moved all of the strips over and plant brassicas in the old clover patch and re-establish new white clover in the fall with the rye mix.
This 170+" mature buck refuses to leave his sanctuary in the surrounding native grass stands except to feed in this small patch of Alice, KopuII and Jumbo Ladino white clover even though there are plenty of other food sources on the farm.
Don't make the mistake of planting 10 acres of white clover...10-20% of your food sources should be in white clover and in all but rare cases with extremely high deer densities that is more then enough. Don't make the mistake of thinking that highly touted "Buck on a Bag" clover seed is required to hold deer because in reality most of it is not drought resistant nor capable of withstanding heavy grazing. Provide outstanding bedding cover and safe sanctuary such as the buck above has and they will happily use any brand or variety or VNS white clover. A few I recommend are Alice, Durana, Patriot, KopuII and Jumbo Ladino but there are many many more that will work equally as well.
Clover Seed source
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
Huge buck
Wow, is that a giant buck! Good luck with him.
Wow, is that a giant buck! Good luck with him.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Not unless you have a hidden area where deer might be likely to gather before dark....remember the location of the food source and the surrounding cover are far and away more important then the kind of food,
The spot shown in the post above is still holding some giant deer but not because of the clover, they would be there regardless of type of food. The combination of outstanding cover in the form of CIR switchgrass and small areas of thick timber in a secluded undisturbed area of the farm are the reasons they are there and then they take advantage of the small clover plot there.
I want to re-enforce the fact that deer are OPPORTUNISTIC...they will take advantage of whatever food source you plant as long as it's there year around and they can stay close to a bedding area.
Clover and alfalfa are two crops that come close to feeding deer year around although the type of alfalfa planted (subject to winter dormancy and date of last mowing) will affect the length of time it is effective.
All that said I would never plant 2 acres of clover...I would plant 10/20% of that field to white clover and divide the rest between brassicas and the winter rye combination...the combination of all of those crops will then provide food year around...:way:
letemgrow
PMA Member
Exactly, they will feed where they feel safe and where they have been feeding over the years...no matter what food source is there...as long as there is one they can eat.
Those centralized food plots are the ticket to keep deer on a farm and coming to the food. Once they start, they will continue to them no matter if its rye, corn, beans, brassicas, clover etc.