Clover

[dbltree]

January 23rd, 2011

Bitter cold and plenty of snow for some time now but the Alice white clover is still a big hit round here!

Easy to see where they have been pawing in it in the back corner in this picture

Interesting... here is a self feeder in the background that has shelled corn in it and deer do eat out of it now and then, yet here they are choosing Alice white clover

Preferring to dig through the snow for the clover rather then eat corn?

These deer are feeding on the main white clover used in the Sweet Spot mix

Small patches of lush white clover have been instrumental in holding whitetails on my farms year around

Combined with other crops...white clover provides a lot of bang for very little expense!

Combined with turnips and winter rye i can attract deer year around and adapt them to using the same runways year after year.... :way:

 

[dbltree]

February 1st 2011

It's mid winter...do you know where your deer are??

A friend of mine commented how he ends up with the neighboring deer this time of year because they have nothing to eat elsewhere and find exactly what they are searching for at his place. The does of course eventually return but...the 175" buck...may not....

If we want deer to live on our farm and become predictable and easy to pattern....we have to feed them year around. If they keep going to the neighbors place because your cupboard is bare.... the big boys are not going to be foolish enough to come back.

Clover is just one of those tools that help us keep deer on our property year around and here it is February and they are literally pawing these white clovers right to the dirt!

These pictures are from my "test" plots, never intended to be "food plots" because I had alfalfa, corn and soybeans aplenty

Over the past three years however deer have become adapted to feeding in these small plots and the number of deer has outgrown the ability of these small plots to feed them!

This illustrates the value of year around food sources however and how quickly deer adapt to the constant supply of food when it is combined with safe secure bedding areas.

Combine crops like clover with any number of other crops to attract and hold deer year around on your property, if you don't....your neighbor will......

 

[dbltree]

February 24th, 2011

On the way out from a timber walk with a landowner and forester today we swung out to his clover plots and picked up a couple dandy sheds today. Pretty amazing that a simple thing like white clover can be so effective at holding deer right through the winter.

Found a nice prize in my own Alice white clover plot the day before

These pictures show just how heavily used the clover was all winter

No need to fertilize here!

The rye on either side has also been grubbed to the ground

These clover plots have been eaten to the dirt...literally!

Same Alice white clover on another farm with as many deer but the plots are larger

Here turnips are keeping the deer fed

but they are still spending plenty of time in the clover

Hard to imagine not utilizing white clover as an inexpensive and easy to grow tool in ones habitat program.... :way:

 

[SDHunt24/7]

Buffalo bur sticker weeds in clover

Dbltree I did not have any grass or broadleaf problems in my clover plots I planted last spring, but they became overrun with a yellow flowered sticker that I recently discovered as buffalo bur. I used the biologic clover plus brand, so it also has chicory. Do you know of a herbicide that will kill this problem plant without harming the clover/chicory. By the way I am new to IA whitetail and have really enjoyed all the hard work and research you folks have put into it. Bryan

 

[DUG]

Frost seed clover into standing soybeans

I have about 6 acres of standing soybeans that are stripped down to nothing and the ground is bare below the bean stalks. Can I frost seed a mixture of alice, kopu II and jumbo ladino into a portion of these beans to establish my clover plots or would I be better off waiting until spring and work the ground. I am going to take your advise and put out multiple small plots in these areas instead of just one large plot. Thanks for all the help.

 

[dbltree]

I have about 6 acres of standing soybeans that are stripped down to nothing and the ground is bare below the bean stalks. Can I frost seed a mixture of alice, kopu II and jumbo ladino into a portion of these beans to establish my clover plots or would I be better off waiting until spring and work the ground. I am going to take your advise and put out multiple small plots in these areas instead of just one large plot. Thanks for all the help.

Frost seeding should work well on a clean surface following beans! probably get a slight jump on the weeds that way but be prepared to clip or spray if need be. :way:

Dbltree I did not have any grass or broadleaf problems in my clover plots I planted last spring, but they became overrun with a yellow flowered sticker that I recently discovered as buffalo bur. I used the biologic clover plus brand, so it also has chicory. Do you know of a herbicide that will kill this problem plant without harming the clover/chicory. By the way I am new to IA whitetail and have really enjoyed all the hard work and research you folks have put into it. Bryan

I think we covered this in the herbicide thread but as far as i know there is no herbicide that will work in this situation. Raptor is safe on clover and chicory but the label does not mention buffalo bur?

Let us know if you try it and what the results are Bryan...and welcome to IW :way:

 

[SDHunt24/7]

Frost seeding should work well on a clean surface following beans! probably get a slight jump on the weeds that way but be prepared to clip or spray if need be. :way:



I think we covered this in the herbicide thread but as far as i know there is no herbicide that will work in this situation. Raptor is safe on clover and chicory but the label does not mention buffalo bur?

Let us know if you try it and what the results are Bryan...and welcome to IW :way:

I think I will try the raptor if the problem comes back. Thanks

 

[dbltree]

Frost Seeding Clover

March is the ideal time to frost seed white and red clovers over much of the midwest when soils are freezing at night and thawing during the day. That action helps the clover seed make solid seed soil contact and when soils warm the seed will germinate and grow without having tilled the soils or being at the mercy of wet spring weather.

General recommended frost seeding rates

8-10#'s of white clover
15-18#'s of red clover

Seeding rates are generally slightly higher when frost seeding because a lower percentage of seed will successfully germinate compared to conventional prepared and sown seed.

What can I not frost seed into?

We commonly and very successfully frost seed into fescue and brome pastures so there is almost no crop residue that clover cannot be frost seeded into.

Corn stalks, soybean stubble, winter cereals such as rye and wheat, killed or unkilled sod are all great places to frost seed clover. Dead brassica plots are the only situations where it's possible that allelopathic chemicals from the brassica plants may inhibit the germination of small seeds like clover. It's not always a problem and where nearly every scrap of plant residue has been eaten it may work very well but where the soil is covered with dead brassica leaves and rotting roots...it may not.

I prefer to till under the dead brassicas and plant oats and annual clovers but often frost seeding is worth a try.

Before you sow into corn stubble, just be certain that high rates of atrazine weren't used because the residual effects can be long lasting and may require tillage and time before you can successfully plant clover.

When frost seeding into winter cereals that were planted at rates of 80-150#'s per acre the fall before, you'll want to be prepared to kill the cereals with clethodim when 6-12" tall or clip them as they reach 12-20' height. if the cereals were sown at lower rates you have the option of leaving them standing and clipping the straw and clover both in mid summer.

Soybean stubble is an ideal surface to frost seed into but broadleaf weeds can still be a problem so just be prepared to clip them off as needed.

if sowing into sod, just spray with clethodim in mid April and perhaps again in mid to late May with 8 ounces of clethodim and 1 quart of crop oil per acre.

Couple pics of the clovers in the Sweet Spot mix in early March

The high sugar ryegrass appears dormant for now but deer are still feeding on the clover

Lot's of options to get some clover growing so take advantage of this versatile and easy to grow crop to help hold deer on your property year around. :way:

 

[dbltree]

March 25th, 2011

Interesting to look at this pic from a month ago...

and this one in late March...notice the clover in the far back left corner, already greening up

When it was dormant, the brassicas were feeding deer, now they are gone but the deer are still here feeding on rye and clover.

It's amazing how quickly white clover greens up with a little sunshine!

I have noticed that some of the "buck on a bag" clovers however are extremely dormant and show no signs of life while Alice, KopuII, Winter White and others are already off to the races!

Remember to not let your apple orchards look like this

when they can be productive right now by being planted to white clover

White clover is an almost perfect crop to have in conjunction with your other food sources and it can be planted in almost any odd area or field edge as the old ad on TV used to say..."a little dab will do ya"....

 

[KSQ2]

dbltree, I was trying to avoid the handling and shipping cost of Welters, but I'm having a hard time finding Alice clover locally. Is ladino clover acceptable? What will I be losing by going with ladino over alice?
I'm only planting about a half acre to clover this year, after a year of experimenting I might look to clearing some more area for clover next year.
We already have an acre and a half that will be planted to turnips next fall, and 10 acres of wheat/beans...

 

[dbltree]

Ladino will work fine, it's just a taller white clover and may require a little more clipping then Alice. It's also not going to be as drought resistant as Alice but otherwise it will do the job...

Best price on clethodim that I have seen!

Clethodim source

At 8 ounces per acre a gallon will last most landowners for some time!

Don't forget you need to add 1 quart of crop oil per acre

Crop Oil Concentrate

Clethodim is a grass selective herbicide safe on almost all broadleaf plants and trees.... :way:

 

[Maj]

Dbltree, I have clover plot of Kopu, Jumbo Ladino and Alice that I planted last spring that is doing quite well but the Foxtail was terrible. I mowed several times last year to keep it under control but I was hoping to spray this year instead of mowing all the time. It seems that Select is the answer but do I need to wait until the Foxtail and other weeds come up or can I spray now. Is there a premergent I could use now that would work better for controlling it before it comes up? I am in Northern Missouri so the clover has already greened up. Thanks

 

[dbltree]

Dbltree, I have clover plot of Kopu, Jumbo Ladino and Alice that I planted last spring that is doing quite well but the Foxtail was terrible. I mowed several times last year to keep it under control but I was hoping to spray this year instead of mowing all the time. It seems that Select is the answer but do I need to wait until the Foxtail and other weeds come up or can I spray now. Is there a premergent I could use now that would work better for controlling it before it comes up? I am in Northern Missouri so the clover has already greened up. Thanks

Foxtail is rarely a problem in healthy established clover so I suspect you will not have a problem this year. It can be a problem in new seedings especially when we have an abundance of rain as we did last year.

Pre-emergence herbicides are available (like treflan) to use when establishing clover but not on established clover, so clethodim (Select/Arrow) will be the best bet if foxtail or any other grasses reappear this year.

 

[Maj]

Thanks!!! I appreciate all your efforts in these threads. They are very helpful.

 

[dbltree]

Thanks!!! I appreciate all your efforts in these threads. They are very helpful.

Your welcome and keep us posted on how your clover does this year...:way:

 

[KSQ2]

Dbltree, could you give me a little more info. on the treflan you mentioned. It won't harm the clover? I'd like to spray a 1/2 acre plot we're establishing to alice clover, mostly the area is native grass with a very few blackberries to deal with (Will Remedy later on harm the clover?). I burned the area a month ago and really not much is growing there now, at least not enough to roundup in my opinion. I'm VERY interested in this treflan you mention though...

I did a little research on the treflan. TR-10 is a granular form, do you have any experience with it?

A little internet research can yield all kinds of info... I found on a University of Kentucky Ag. site that glyphosate is approved to be used on red, ladino, and aslike clovers, during all stages of growth and maturity. Is this correct? Oops, I think I misread the chart...

http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/agr/agr148/agr148.pdf

 

[dbltree]

Balan, Eptam, or Treflan can be used preplant-incorporated before spring seeding of alfalfa (no grass�legume mixes) to minimize competition from grass weeds. Balan is used at 3 to 4 quarts per acre, Eptam at 3.5 to 4.5 pints per acre, Treflan HFP (4E) at 1.0 to 1.5 pints per acre, and Treflan TR-10 (10%G) at 5 to 7.5 pounds per acre.

Most testing is done on alfalfa and is what you will find in the labels.

Personally I fall seed with winter rye and then avoid the need for establishment herbicides.

Glyphosate and or clethodim will keep established clovers cleaned up very nicely...just use a lite does of gly in May for best results...:way:

 

[LoessHillsArcher]

Glyphosate and or clethodim will keep established clovers cleaned up very nicely...just use a lite does of gly in May for best results...:way:

What would you say for new spring plantings? Wait to apply gly until after the first cutting? After 2 months? Any tips on that Paul? Thanks again for the help :way:

 

[KSQ2]

Would I be right to assume "5-7 pounds" is active ingredient? I hope you read this tonight as I will be applying tomorrow. And one more thing, if I apply treflan, I'd take away the option of planting the clover in drilled oats, right? Which route, of the two, would you recommend? Thanks dbltree!!

 

[dbltree]

What would you say for new spring plantings? Wait to apply gly until after the first cutting? After 2 months? Any tips on that Paul? Thanks again for the help :way:

The clover needs to be established to handle the gly Jordan so I usually use it the year after establishment. It may be safe later this summer but I would try only a pint per acre and do a test area first. It does "brown" a bit at first but healthy established white clover will recover quickly.

Would I be right to assume "5-7 pounds" is active ingredient? I hope you read this tonight as I will be applying tomorrow. And one more thing, if I apply treflan, I'd take away the option of planting the clover in drilled oats, right? Which route, of the two, would you recommend? Thanks dbltree!!

Yes...treflan is normally used in clear seedings so i normally use oats with a spring seeding to give deer something to feed on for a while. Then I clip the oats off along with any weeds in July usually.

5-7#'s of product per acre is correct but it must be pre-plant incorporated to be effective.

All of this is a reminder of why I fall seed with winter rye...no muss, no fuss, no weeds, no herbicides...me n the deer are happy campers...