Make it to the fish hatchery folks. Your voice is worth a thousand votes- especially if you can voice your OBVIOUS and well founded concerns effectively.
More people on the RIGHT side of this issue could drastically impact Iowa and it's future for deer hunting!!!! This is your opportunity (and responsibility) for those who want to make a difference and support this state and hunters for the better!!! The flip side and WRONG DIRECTION, the other side wants (and is getting) will have an impact on YOU! I'm sure other critical issues discussed as well!!!
6:30 Rathburn Hatchery TONIGHT!!! Please email those you know that would be valuable assets to have their on this huge issue.
More people on the RIGHT side of this issue could drastically impact Iowa and it's future for deer hunting!!!! This is your opportunity (and responsibility) for those who want to make a difference and support this state and hunters for the better!!! The flip side and WRONG DIRECTION, the other side wants (and is getting) will have an impact on YOU! I'm sure other critical issues discussed as well!!!
6:30 Rathburn Hatchery TONIGHT!!! Please email those you know that would be valuable assets to have their on this huge issue.
I'm not able to make this meeting, but would like to speak to those making the final decisions.
Please keep us updated on the proceedings and list some contact names for those of us not able to make it.
I'm really curious who EXACTLY changed these rules and why. The depredation program issues were decided on during the legislative session with input from the IBA.
Please keep us updated on the proceedings and list some contact names for those of us not able to make it.
I'm really curious who EXACTLY changed these rules and why. The depredation program issues were decided on during the legislative session with input from the IBA.
Iowabowtech
Active Member
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hoytmossyoak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I dont know about many of you but hunting will always be put behind family in my life. The bottom line is that the people that will abuse this new law were already doing it.
</div></div>
You do make a point, it's just that this type of thing creates all new avenues for good people to make bad decisions. I'm a huge supporter of farmers and ag. I think most everyone here is. Many of us work together with farmers to help reduce numbers. Last year a couple friends and myself removed 27 deer from a property that was and still is overpopulated. All were bowkills and only 2 were bucks. We didn't do it because we wanted to field dress and deal with that many deer, we did it because it was for the good of the property and landowner. But the fact is, shooting bucks with high powers out of hunting season is NOT the answer. I am not acutely aware of the specifics of this whole thing but <u>IF </u> and it's a big if, this were to be allowed, the property owner should at minimum prove that they own and operate a business that has been directly affected by bucks rubbing on trees and causing a recordable monetary loss. Examples of this might be apple tree farms or Christmas tree farms etc. All others should be excluded. I'm on the fence about whether I would be in favor of removing does in this fashion. My gut tells me no but I'd at least entertain the arguments from the other side in that case. NO WAY bucks should be taken out in the summer with rifles without some major extenuating circumstances dictating the need.
I dont know about many of you but hunting will always be put behind family in my life. The bottom line is that the people that will abuse this new law were already doing it.
</div></div>
You do make a point, it's just that this type of thing creates all new avenues for good people to make bad decisions. I'm a huge supporter of farmers and ag. I think most everyone here is. Many of us work together with farmers to help reduce numbers. Last year a couple friends and myself removed 27 deer from a property that was and still is overpopulated. All were bowkills and only 2 were bucks. We didn't do it because we wanted to field dress and deal with that many deer, we did it because it was for the good of the property and landowner. But the fact is, shooting bucks with high powers out of hunting season is NOT the answer. I am not acutely aware of the specifics of this whole thing but <u>IF </u> and it's a big if, this were to be allowed, the property owner should at minimum prove that they own and operate a business that has been directly affected by bucks rubbing on trees and causing a recordable monetary loss. Examples of this might be apple tree farms or Christmas tree farms etc. All others should be excluded. I'm on the fence about whether I would be in favor of removing does in this fashion. My gut tells me no but I'd at least entertain the arguments from the other side in that case. NO WAY bucks should be taken out in the summer with rifles without some major extenuating circumstances dictating the need.
DWilk
Active Member
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iowabowtech</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hoytmossyoak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I dont know about many of you but hunting will always be put behind family in my life. The bottom line is that the people that will abuse this new law were already doing it.
</div></div>
You do make a point, it's just that this type of thing creates all new avenues for good people to make bad decisions. I'm a huge supporter of farmers and ag. I think most everyone here is. Many of us work together with farmers to help reduce numbers. Last year a couple friends and myself removed 27 deer from a property that was and still is overpopulated. All were bowkills and only 2 were bucks. We didn't do it because we wanted to field dress and deal with that many deer, we did it because it was for the good of the property and landowner. But the fact is, shooting bucks with high powers out of hunting season is NOT the answer. I am not acutely aware of the specifics of this whole thing but <u>IF </u> and it's a big if, this were to be allowed, the property owner should at minimum prove that they own and operate a business that has been directly affected by bucks rubbing on trees and causing a recordable monetary loss. Examples of this might be apple tree farms or Christmas tree farms etc. All others should be excluded. I'm on the fence about whether I would be in favor of removing does in this fashion. My gut tells me no but I'd at least entertain the arguments from the other side in that case. NO WAY bucks should be taken out in the summer with rifles without some major extenuating circumstances dictating the need. </div></div>
That is the most sensible argument I've heard yet.
I dont know about many of you but hunting will always be put behind family in my life. The bottom line is that the people that will abuse this new law were already doing it.
</div></div>
You do make a point, it's just that this type of thing creates all new avenues for good people to make bad decisions. I'm a huge supporter of farmers and ag. I think most everyone here is. Many of us work together with farmers to help reduce numbers. Last year a couple friends and myself removed 27 deer from a property that was and still is overpopulated. All were bowkills and only 2 were bucks. We didn't do it because we wanted to field dress and deal with that many deer, we did it because it was for the good of the property and landowner. But the fact is, shooting bucks with high powers out of hunting season is NOT the answer. I am not acutely aware of the specifics of this whole thing but <u>IF </u> and it's a big if, this were to be allowed, the property owner should at minimum prove that they own and operate a business that has been directly affected by bucks rubbing on trees and causing a recordable monetary loss. Examples of this might be apple tree farms or Christmas tree farms etc. All others should be excluded. I'm on the fence about whether I would be in favor of removing does in this fashion. My gut tells me no but I'd at least entertain the arguments from the other side in that case. NO WAY bucks should be taken out in the summer with rifles without some major extenuating circumstances dictating the need. </div></div>
That is the most sensible argument I've heard yet.
Liv4Rut
Active Member
The problem is we are all deer hunters that want to shoot big bucks. If you didn't, then you wouldn't have a problem with the buck rule. The Farmers and the powers to be want the deer population reduced. To do that, you need to shoot every deer that moves, whether its a buck or doe. I will agree with them on that but since I am a hunter that wants to kill big deer, I don't agree with killing bucks in the summer.
What I don't like about these super early seasons is I bet most the deer just get thrown in the ditch. If your shooting deer when it is 100 degrees outside, you don't have much time to get it to the butcher before it spoils.
What I don't like about these super early seasons is I bet most the deer just get thrown in the ditch. If your shooting deer when it is 100 degrees outside, you don't have much time to get it to the butcher before it spoils.
the NR issue is minor in the big picture, funny how people always try and bring that issue up. there's no solution to any "problem" that will be brought by the Non-Resident issues and arguments.
*Iowabowtech- great post. To clarify if there's confusion- this last 2 months: BUCKS WERE SHOT WITH RIFLES. This is fact and IS the law. It will be next year as well unless there's enough people that "catch it" and expose it for what it is - a terrible misjudgement and mistake with horrible motives. I can think of several neighbors that MIGHT consider doing this down the road that I am worried might do it. Sneaky folks that got this law done need to be exposed and light needs to come out on this decision!
*Iowabowtech- great post. To clarify if there's confusion- this last 2 months: BUCKS WERE SHOT WITH RIFLES. This is fact and IS the law. It will be next year as well unless there's enough people that "catch it" and expose it for what it is - a terrible misjudgement and mistake with horrible motives. I can think of several neighbors that MIGHT consider doing this down the road that I am worried might do it. Sneaky folks that got this law done need to be exposed and light needs to come out on this decision!
jjohnson
Well-Known Member
I'm not trying to defend this law or anything but I'm sure most of the farmers out there that got these tags are not interested in killing bucks.
I had a farmer approach me about a month ago asking if I'd be willing to kill a few does for him. He showed me the forms for the shooting permits and he was offered five. One guy took two so I said I will fill the other three for him. I then filled out my info and the other guys and sent the form to Manchester and they sent us five shooting permits. I called and talked to Ross Ellingson? (DNR Biologist assigned to Depredation Tags or whatever for NE Iowa). I asked him about the rules and regs. The season was from July 1st until Sept. 19th. There were no shooting hours but no artificial light could be used. Other than that you had to follow all rules and regs in your county. Wearing blaze orange and no rifles (prly cause I'm in NE Iowa).
This farmer insisted on no bucks getting shot. We took four does off the property. The hunting was tough(full moon and hot) and over six hunts I probably seen 15does and 25bucks on close to 1000 acres. He's been getting 30+ depredation tags for several years, every year. He's not a hunter but wants anyone hunting on his land to practice good management.
I personaly believe that more farmers need to take advantage of these types of programs and quite bit@@ing about to many deer. I would much rather see a lot of does taken legally that what most do around here during gun seasons. Which is telling the guys hunting (usually during shotgun seasons) to shoot every deer they see and tag them if you want. It happens a lot up here and they'll shoot 30-40 deer in one drive and tag 2 or 3 nice bucks and maybe a couple does and leave the rest lay.
If farmers don't take advantage of these programs or let more people on their land to hunt. Who knows what the lobbyist's will do next... Just my .02
I had a farmer approach me about a month ago asking if I'd be willing to kill a few does for him. He showed me the forms for the shooting permits and he was offered five. One guy took two so I said I will fill the other three for him. I then filled out my info and the other guys and sent the form to Manchester and they sent us five shooting permits. I called and talked to Ross Ellingson? (DNR Biologist assigned to Depredation Tags or whatever for NE Iowa). I asked him about the rules and regs. The season was from July 1st until Sept. 19th. There were no shooting hours but no artificial light could be used. Other than that you had to follow all rules and regs in your county. Wearing blaze orange and no rifles (prly cause I'm in NE Iowa).
This farmer insisted on no bucks getting shot. We took four does off the property. The hunting was tough(full moon and hot) and over six hunts I probably seen 15does and 25bucks on close to 1000 acres. He's been getting 30+ depredation tags for several years, every year. He's not a hunter but wants anyone hunting on his land to practice good management.
I personaly believe that more farmers need to take advantage of these types of programs and quite bit@@ing about to many deer. I would much rather see a lot of does taken legally that what most do around here during gun seasons. Which is telling the guys hunting (usually during shotgun seasons) to shoot every deer they see and tag them if you want. It happens a lot up here and they'll shoot 30-40 deer in one drive and tag 2 or 3 nice bucks and maybe a couple does and leave the rest lay.
If farmers don't take advantage of these programs or let more people on their land to hunt. Who knows what the lobbyist's will do next... Just my .02
In my home state this program has been implemented for many years. Here it's called "red tags" where a farmer can use them himself or issue them to others to shoot deer day or night.
For the most part farmers choose to keep the tags and shoot whatever they see. By law they are supposed to contact the DNR(PA Game Commission) after shooting each deer, however, this is not what happens. Due to not wanting the hassle most in my state let them lay and do not contact anyone. In fact, one farmer bragged he would intentionally gut shoot them so they run several hundred yards and die in the woods, or on someone elses property.
After finding several deer on our property the game commission was contacted who could have cared less, they wanted more deer killed period.
Very controversial program.
For the most part farmers choose to keep the tags and shoot whatever they see. By law they are supposed to contact the DNR(PA Game Commission) after shooting each deer, however, this is not what happens. Due to not wanting the hassle most in my state let them lay and do not contact anyone. In fact, one farmer bragged he would intentionally gut shoot them so they run several hundred yards and die in the woods, or on someone elses property.
After finding several deer on our property the game commission was contacted who could have cared less, they wanted more deer killed period.
Very controversial program.
teeroy
Life Member
last i knew, the only way you could legally shoot a buck with a rifle with one of these tags, were if rifles were allowed in a season in that county. so if a hunter/farmer was shooting deer with a rifle, and wasn't in one of the lower 2 tiers of county's, then they are breaking the law
singlecoyote
Proud member of the IBA
Can we get some freaking clarification as to whats happening, whats legal, where it's legal, how long it's been going on. I'd like to see all the law in writing. Does anyone have this concrete info?
So, did anyone attend this meeting and if so what went on? I was gone yesterday so I just read about this so I wasn't there, but I would sure have liked to ask those present about many of the things in my last post about the CASH COW. How far are we going to let this go? For those who have commented about the farmers loosing thousands of dollars I understand that this can be a problem at times, but at $2.00 corn it wasn't nearly as big a problem as it has become at $5.00 corn. Are we willing to have deprivation tags issued for all the other pesky corn eaters, such as raccoons, squirrels, turkeys, rabbits, and all those nasty songbirds that we see flocked into fields this time of year? What level of deer population will be acceptable and what happens when the crop losses don't go down much after we kill off most of the deer? What is our current deer population in different sections of the State, because if we don't know that how can we decide what or how many to kill?
By the way, Thanks for putting that post on the front page. I am guessing that someone either agrees with some of the points, or wanted to point out how narrow minded some old men are. Either way maybe many more people at least read it and might start to ask questions.
By the way, Thanks for putting that post on the front page. I am guessing that someone either agrees with some of the points, or wanted to point out how narrow minded some old men are. Either way maybe many more people at least read it and might start to ask questions.
singlecoyote
Proud member of the IBA
I guess I didn't meen to question you, I just would like to see some regs for this in writing.
Shooting deer at night, with rifles? Wow.
Shooting deer at night, with rifles? Wow.
jjohnson
Well-Known Member
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: teeroy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">last i knew, the only way you could legally shoot a buck with a rifle with one of these tags, were if rifles were allowed in a season in that county. so if a hunter/farmer was shooting deer with a rifle, and wasn't in one of the lower 2 tiers of county's, then they are breaking the law</div></div>
That's what I was told too.
Read the last paragraph.
Depredation Tags and Shooting Permits
Again I'm not trying to defend this nor do I know what the answers are to the deer #'s problem. I live in one of the worst counties for this. I believe that the over populated areas are isolated and in many places deer numbers are actually down. We keep getting more and more tags and more and more seasons so guys keep going out and pounding the same land over and over.
I firmly believe the problem is access. Most of the areas that have high deer numbers are where nobody can hunt. It's really up to the farmer to control his/her deer population and if they don't let people in to hunt or force guys hunting their land to shoot more does. Then they're going to have problems. Simple as that.
That's what I was told too.
Read the last paragraph.
Depredation Tags and Shooting Permits
Again I'm not trying to defend this nor do I know what the answers are to the deer #'s problem. I live in one of the worst counties for this. I believe that the over populated areas are isolated and in many places deer numbers are actually down. We keep getting more and more tags and more and more seasons so guys keep going out and pounding the same land over and over.
I firmly believe the problem is access. Most of the areas that have high deer numbers are where nobody can hunt. It's really up to the farmer to control his/her deer population and if they don't let people in to hunt or force guys hunting their land to shoot more does. Then they're going to have problems. Simple as that.
Hey SingleCoyote- I know some others on here had spoke with DNR and also went to meeting. One thing the DNR people will tell you is some of them "Didn't know until it was too late". Basically they found out after people were shooting the bucks and then they saw the tags, etc. Obviously everyone likes to see claims backed up- that's why I encouraged folks to go to the meeting or contact knowledgeable folks at the DNR. It truly is as bad as it sounds unfortunately, I just wonder how much worse it will get?!?!?!
***I am thinking of starting my own HUNTING VIDEOS now though- "Night Vision Non-Typicals" is what I am gonna call it- "All Giants, All Night!" I guess I'll have to invest in a night vision camcorder too BUT I bet I'll have some sweet looking deer next summer! I'm looking for more areas to film as well if any of you have any sugesstions?
***I am thinking of starting my own HUNTING VIDEOS now though- "Night Vision Non-Typicals" is what I am gonna call it- "All Giants, All Night!" I guess I'll have to invest in a night vision camcorder too BUT I bet I'll have some sweet looking deer next summer! I'm looking for more areas to film as well if any of you have any sugesstions?
This is amazing to me. This topic has had 1161 views and only 37 replies made by only a dozen or so members. Don't more of the die hard passionate members here have an opinion on this subject, or does every one agree with these deprivation programs and think that deer, any deer, should be killed by almost any means possible to "Help thin the herd"? Don't the good people on here get it that most of these farmers or others involved with these programs would just as soon have all the deer gone from their fields? I am certainly not saying that all farmers want this, because I own a farm, but those who apply for these tags do so for one basic reason, they don't want any deer eating any of their corn or beans.
There is still no answer to the questions I have asked over and over. How many deer do we have in Iowa, how many do we want to keep, and how many do we need to kill to get there? Why is it so difficult to get a few answers? The only reason I can really think of is the powers that be, who ever that is, doesn't want us to know how far they are willing to go, and this topic is just one example. We had better wake up soon, very soon!!
There is still no answer to the questions I have asked over and over. How many deer do we have in Iowa, how many do we want to keep, and how many do we need to kill to get there? Why is it so difficult to get a few answers? The only reason I can really think of is the powers that be, who ever that is, doesn't want us to know how far they are willing to go, and this topic is just one example. We had better wake up soon, very soon!!
Shoot2Kill
Active Member
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sligh1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
***I am thinking of starting my own HUNTING VIDEOS now though- "Night Vision Non-Typicals" is what I am gonna call it- "All Giants, All Night!" </div></div>
That was funny as hell. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
Bowmaker - I like your thoughts...I've been on stand before at last light and seen a half dozen coons do more damage to a corner of a corn field than one deer will do all summer. And yes, how will the damage be noticeably different after these deer are shot in the summer anyway? Unless you get every one of them, it won't be.
***I am thinking of starting my own HUNTING VIDEOS now though- "Night Vision Non-Typicals" is what I am gonna call it- "All Giants, All Night!" </div></div>
That was funny as hell. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
Bowmaker - I like your thoughts...I've been on stand before at last light and seen a half dozen coons do more damage to a corner of a corn field than one deer will do all summer. And yes, how will the damage be noticeably different after these deer are shot in the summer anyway? Unless you get every one of them, it won't be.