bkcrrtnps
Well-Known Member
not you skip, meaning the other comment
Cross Bows in Iowa....? I hope not
- Thread starter thecreedeer
- Start date
-
- Tags
- None
hoosierhunter
Active Member
Here's the million dollar hypothetical question.
Would anyone be ok with crossbows as a trade off to eliminate party hunting? Lesser of two evils methodology.
Here's a fun tidbit for Indiana. We started allowing crossbows about a year or two ago the entire season. Before that, they were allowed in late season for a few years....
This years proposal, which already passed the NRC, is high powered rifles for 2015......
That was started a few years ago by increasing cartridge lengths from 1.6 to 1.8 inches......
Before that it was county doe limits instead of statewide bag limits.........
Death by a thousand small cuts happens before you even know what's going on.......
Would anyone be ok with crossbows as a trade off to eliminate party hunting? Lesser of two evils methodology.
Here's a fun tidbit for Indiana. We started allowing crossbows about a year or two ago the entire season. Before that, they were allowed in late season for a few years....
This years proposal, which already passed the NRC, is high powered rifles for 2015......
That was started a few years ago by increasing cartridge lengths from 1.6 to 1.8 inches......
Before that it was county doe limits instead of statewide bag limits.........
Death by a thousand small cuts happens before you even know what's going on.......
Central Iowa
Life Member
Sligh, you are a highly educated deer manager trying to convince 7/10's of deer hunters why this is a bad idea. The remaining 3/10's get it and are on board, however, the politicians and equipment pushers know you are outnumbered and cater to an uninformed and selfish group who accept their ridiculous agenda. Keep up the good fight, I for one am with you. BTW, I do own a farm in Iowa and have a vested interest.
Last edited:
LYON
PMA Member
Agreed! Sligh you should get a seat in the big house with the gold roof in Des Moines. Problem is, you seem to have too much common sense and actual knowledge of what you talk about to be a politician.
Liv4Rut
Active Member
Gentlemen, I told myself, self you better stay out of this thread back when it started but for some reason a six pack sounded good tonight and I haven't drank since summer catfishing on the river so here it goes.........
1. Any state that is a one buck rule cannot be compared to Iowa. Iowa is a 2 buck state. One for bow, one for gun. Yes, you can use a bow during late muzz however it is still a gun tag. Landowners can get a 3rd tag.
2. I would actually be in favor of allowing crossbows in Iowa Archery season if Iowa was a one buck state. A person will only kill one buck regardless so who cares what they use. Issue one tag, good for all seasons and when you kill your buck all you got left is doe tags if you wish to use them. Yes, there will be increased pressure in bow season but you can only kill one buck. There is still the party hunting loop hole but since you are issued only one any sex tag the number of bucks killed is still limited.
3. Iowa has anywhere from 125,000 to 140,000 gun hunters based on different numbers I have seen. I have no clue how many bowhunters but from what I have seen in the past it is less than 50,000. This means the "potential" of 75,000 - 90,000 additional people that may be interested in getting an archery tag if crossbows were allowed.
4. I personally know over 20 guys who currently only gun hunt that claim they would bowhunt if they could use a crossbow because good lord those things are sticking them in the 10 ring at 100 yards. Yes, youtube videos can be misleading from real world in the woods but that is what these boys see. The only reason I know so many guys is I am a sales rep that touches hundreds of hunters throuhgout the season in many different areas of Iowa.
5. Can Iowa support an additional 75-90,000 bowhunters in the woods. Lets say only 25% do it, so another 18,000- 22,500 bowhunters? Well, we do it during gun season but what I have noticed is a lot of my buddies have access to ground during bow season that they do not during gun season due to family and friends hunting gun season. What happens when those gun hunters all the sudden want to bowhunt? Good bye buddy on that ground which is fair but where do they go? Will leasing go up? Hunt public like all the others?
6. Anyone that says crossbows offer no advantage kind of cracks me up since they are allowed for disabled people. Really? I have no doubt I would be more efficient at killing big bucks inside of 30 yards with a crossbow with a scope than a compound bow. I have messed up on some dandies bowhunting simply due to there is a lot more going on with a bow that does not happen with a crossbow. A crossbow, yes may be a little awkward in the tree, but at the end of the day, crosshairs behind shoulder, shoot. I don't mess up with my gun inside of 30 yards like I have with a bow at 30 yards or less.
7. Gun hunters in general, myself included, shoots their gun one day before the season. Yep, its dead on. This will happen with a crossbow. There really is no need to practice much once sighted in. This is what is appealing to the gun hunters I know as there biggest complaint now is they don't have enough time to be proficient with a bow.
8. What will the quality of the herd be like with the increased harvest numbers during bow season. Nobody can argue there will be a lot of gun hunters trying it. Everyone talks about it where I go, heck I may use a crossbow as they do look sweet.
9. I don't believe adding crossbow to archery will bring on a lot of new hunters. I think there will be a big increase in archery sales but most will be gun hunters. I could see some younger kids that are not capable of handling a bow getting into it and a possibly a few adults but most of those increased tag sales will simply be gun hunters getting there second buck tag.
10. What happens to the NR that are currently waiting 3-4 years to draw a tag for archery when an additional X number of people apply because they can now use a cross bow. Will Iowa increase the quota number? What impact will that have.
I guess in closing thoughts if Iowa wants to go to crossbow during archery, they really should consider going to a one buck rule. I would be fine with crossbows in archery then. Currently I believe the whole issue is more about land access and the quality of a drastically declined herd by adding a new season that could potentially attract the masses that currently only use one buck tag. I do see advantages to a crossbow over a compound however I think it is more the fact that an additional 75-90,000 people could be joining bow season that concerns me the most. The hunting is nowhere near what it was 10 years ago, I am selfish, I want to hunt a state on public ground where I still have a chance at seeing a good deer over a ton of hunters.
1. Any state that is a one buck rule cannot be compared to Iowa. Iowa is a 2 buck state. One for bow, one for gun. Yes, you can use a bow during late muzz however it is still a gun tag. Landowners can get a 3rd tag.
2. I would actually be in favor of allowing crossbows in Iowa Archery season if Iowa was a one buck state. A person will only kill one buck regardless so who cares what they use. Issue one tag, good for all seasons and when you kill your buck all you got left is doe tags if you wish to use them. Yes, there will be increased pressure in bow season but you can only kill one buck. There is still the party hunting loop hole but since you are issued only one any sex tag the number of bucks killed is still limited.
3. Iowa has anywhere from 125,000 to 140,000 gun hunters based on different numbers I have seen. I have no clue how many bowhunters but from what I have seen in the past it is less than 50,000. This means the "potential" of 75,000 - 90,000 additional people that may be interested in getting an archery tag if crossbows were allowed.
4. I personally know over 20 guys who currently only gun hunt that claim they would bowhunt if they could use a crossbow because good lord those things are sticking them in the 10 ring at 100 yards. Yes, youtube videos can be misleading from real world in the woods but that is what these boys see. The only reason I know so many guys is I am a sales rep that touches hundreds of hunters throuhgout the season in many different areas of Iowa.
5. Can Iowa support an additional 75-90,000 bowhunters in the woods. Lets say only 25% do it, so another 18,000- 22,500 bowhunters? Well, we do it during gun season but what I have noticed is a lot of my buddies have access to ground during bow season that they do not during gun season due to family and friends hunting gun season. What happens when those gun hunters all the sudden want to bowhunt? Good bye buddy on that ground which is fair but where do they go? Will leasing go up? Hunt public like all the others?
6. Anyone that says crossbows offer no advantage kind of cracks me up since they are allowed for disabled people. Really? I have no doubt I would be more efficient at killing big bucks inside of 30 yards with a crossbow with a scope than a compound bow. I have messed up on some dandies bowhunting simply due to there is a lot more going on with a bow that does not happen with a crossbow. A crossbow, yes may be a little awkward in the tree, but at the end of the day, crosshairs behind shoulder, shoot. I don't mess up with my gun inside of 30 yards like I have with a bow at 30 yards or less.
7. Gun hunters in general, myself included, shoots their gun one day before the season. Yep, its dead on. This will happen with a crossbow. There really is no need to practice much once sighted in. This is what is appealing to the gun hunters I know as there biggest complaint now is they don't have enough time to be proficient with a bow.
8. What will the quality of the herd be like with the increased harvest numbers during bow season. Nobody can argue there will be a lot of gun hunters trying it. Everyone talks about it where I go, heck I may use a crossbow as they do look sweet.
9. I don't believe adding crossbow to archery will bring on a lot of new hunters. I think there will be a big increase in archery sales but most will be gun hunters. I could see some younger kids that are not capable of handling a bow getting into it and a possibly a few adults but most of those increased tag sales will simply be gun hunters getting there second buck tag.
10. What happens to the NR that are currently waiting 3-4 years to draw a tag for archery when an additional X number of people apply because they can now use a cross bow. Will Iowa increase the quota number? What impact will that have.
I guess in closing thoughts if Iowa wants to go to crossbow during archery, they really should consider going to a one buck rule. I would be fine with crossbows in archery then. Currently I believe the whole issue is more about land access and the quality of a drastically declined herd by adding a new season that could potentially attract the masses that currently only use one buck tag. I do see advantages to a crossbow over a compound however I think it is more the fact that an additional 75-90,000 people could be joining bow season that concerns me the most. The hunting is nowhere near what it was 10 years ago, I am selfish, I want to hunt a state on public ground where I still have a chance at seeing a good deer over a ton of hunters.
Last edited:
I
IowaBuckSlayer2013
Guest
Welcome to the new age of hunters. This is why there is such a split and sour taste between every hunter.
10hunter
PMA Member
I do not believe that most of us wanting to keep crossbows only for the disabled hunters in Iowa are "putting hunters against hunters". We are simply trying to keep a valuable resource that we all love sustainable. We are stating what we believe the negatives of allowing there use would be.
I am also NOT against gun or party hunting. I grew up doing it. Heck, it is how I started hunting. Some of my fondest hunting memories have come from driving deer and party hunting. What "orange armies" I am against, is the deliberate trespassers that arrive during shotgun season in certain areas. I know it is a small minority, who are the offenders, but just frustrating to myself and others who spend a lot of time and energy managing our herd and have others trying to "come into our place and help themselves".
I am 100% PRO-HUNTING AND PRO-HUNTER...I am not against any particular weapon, I just want the best for our herd and Iowa sportsmen, and feel adding additional hunters and harvest will NOT benefit any of us or our resource in the future.
I am also NOT against gun or party hunting. I grew up doing it. Heck, it is how I started hunting. Some of my fondest hunting memories have come from driving deer and party hunting. What "orange armies" I am against, is the deliberate trespassers that arrive during shotgun season in certain areas. I know it is a small minority, who are the offenders, but just frustrating to myself and others who spend a lot of time and energy managing our herd and have others trying to "come into our place and help themselves".
I am 100% PRO-HUNTING AND PRO-HUNTER...I am not against any particular weapon, I just want the best for our herd and Iowa sportsmen, and feel adding additional hunters and harvest will NOT benefit any of us or our resource in the future.
SaskGuy
Active Member
Bravo..bravo. Now I can read the next 6 pages between this post and my reply.
In all honesty, what diff does it make what weapon kills a deer? A dead deer is a dead deer. It is not as if another 10000 folks will take up hunting because they can use a crossbow. People that hunt, hunt, and kill deer. The weapons can change but they number of tags won't. Heck, maybe it will, I guess I don't understand how Ia works entirely. Maybe it'd mean more archery tags being sold.
Here is some food for thought, how many anti crossbow guys in archery would support a reduction in the number of bucks being killed through reduction in the number of buck tags you can buy? From the outside looking in, it seems like a guy can take multiple bucks if they play their cards right. Maybe an any weapon buck tag and done should be the limit??? If buck numbers and mature buck numbers really are the concern they why not start here? Makes sense to me but I suspect it wouldn't fly with most posters as it appears as though reasoning thus far in my opinion, for the most part, has been self serving more than anything.
As best I know, crossbows have had zero affect in areas of Sask where they are now allowed during archery but then again, we are one and done, any weapon, don't matter if you rent an apartment or own 10000 acres.
Last edited:
Liv4Rut
Active Member
There could easily well be over 10,000+ additional crossbow hunters in the archery season. These are not new hunters but are some of the 75,000 gun hunters that want to get their 2nd buck tag as they currently only use 1 during gun season and do not bow hunt. This is the whole concern with adding a essentially a short range gun to bow season. If Iowa was a one buck state there would be minimal impact as people are either going to gun or bow hunt.
I
IowaBuckSlayer2013
Guest
A crossbow is not a short range gun.... Show me the cartridge, primer, powder, bullet etc...... It's simply a bow placed sideways on a stock that works as the release...
Liv4Rut
Active Member
I agree 100%. I would not be opposed to a one buck rule if I could buy one tag good for all seasons and include crossbow into bow season. I would probably still want a quota on the early muzz season as I could see that being chaotic if all the sudden 100,000 people went during that season as it would just turn into shotgun season before the rut. I would still want landowners to get their second tag.
mplane72
PMA Member
I could get behind all of this. I would be concerned that there would be a push to increase the NR tag quota and change NRLO rules though.
Sorry, I jumped the gun and brought up NRs. I know it's only December and we're supposed to stick to Gun vs. Bow and Jan. - Feb. is supposed to be NR vs. R.
Liv4Rut
Active Member
At 30 yards or less which is what I consider bow range to me there is no difference. Its not the gun that makes it effective at short ranges like this it is the mechanics of shooting gun that make it shine.
I know many guys, myself included that can probably shoot a bow at 30 yards or less just as good as a cross bow shooter can. Yet a lot of these guys year after year miss deer or dont get the opportunity to shoot due to the movement of drawing a bow back.
You put a gun in these same guys hand and it is a dead deer just about every time. It is not the gun that makes this happen as my bow is just as accurate as any of my guns at this range. It is simply minimal movement acquiring target, the gun or crossbow is preloaded, you have a scope and all you got to do is focus on keeping that crosshair behind the shoulder and shooting when the time is right.
Outside influences such as fatigue when sitting all day in the cold, bulky clothes that may cause your bow string to hit them, not drawing back when the time is right, your mind going blank when you pull back and have 5 pins to pick from, there is no magnification to really pick a spot. All these different things affect bowhunters more than grabbing a preloaded weapon with a scope.
These advantages would be appealing to many gun hunters as well as bowhunters. Heck I may even be interested in shooting one. The downside to one is they would be a bit awkward.
At the end of the day for me it is more the question can Iowa handle a X % increase in archery tags and deer kills plus the pressure associated with it from different fronts.
The herd is already hurting.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
I could get behind all of this. I would be concerned that there would be a push to increase the NR tag quota and change NRLO rules though.
Sorry, I jumped the gun and brought up NRs. I know it's only December and we're supposed to stick to Gun vs. Bow and Jan. - Feb. is supposed to be NR vs. R.
Mplane--I share your concern as a NR and that is why I hope they do not allow crossbows. You already have to wait to get a tag, if the wait is any longer, than it's time to reconsider if it is worth it.
