Drones and future management…..

[Sligh1]

PLEASE believe me on this!! Drone technology is absolutely our generations fight. In LIFE!! Not just hunting. This issue is way way bigger than recovering a deer.. If you value your freedom at all you should be highly skeptical about any future regulations relaxing the current use of drones. This subject is much bigger than deer hunting and I guarantee you there are plenty of people laughing at us that there are people worried about how this is going to affect deer hunting…. Deer hunting is small potatoes in the grand scheme of the drone world.


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This is high level federal legislation/debate. Way over my pay grade!!! I don’t disagree with you….. I also don’t know a ton about the drone debate & stuff like China getting intel from us. I understand the basics on this but not high level threats to drones or enough info to have a position on that issue. Sure am open minded & probably a topic I’ll dig into!

 

[hans1]

The scary direction i see the drone scouting going are flying and locating high end deer then targeting these thru leasing and/or tresspass fee. With out a doubt there are people willing to pay trophy fees to be put on real big deer. I have heard a few podcasts with Spook Spann and he has been paying for intel/access for a long time. Drones are far to effective for this, had a friends farm flown last week it was an itemized list of the bucks including the shed ones.

 

[booneriverbucks]

This is high level federal legislation/debate. Way over my pay grade!!! I don’t disagree with you….. I also don’t know a ton about the drone debate & stuff like China getting intel from us. I understand the basics on this but not high level threats to drones or enough info to have a position on that issue. Sure am open minded & probably a topic I’ll dig into!

This is “The Fight”!! People will call us tin foil hat wearers and other things and you might not hear from some people ever again because they spoke up about this. I’d spend the rest of my life happy knowing that I warned a few about what was to come. This is way bigger than deer hunting. If the Russians and Ukrainians can off each other’s peasants with this technology how do you feel? Do you really think deer hunting is more important than their causes? Don’t ever think for a second that it can’t happen here!!! Do not normalize this shit!! Do everything you can to make every one you know skeptical of what a drone is doing. We do not need to encourage 24/7 surveillance and eventual destruction of our lives. Wake up!!!


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[gunrunr]

Drones flying over my property, coyote hounds running my farm, blood hounds tracking deer - they all equate to trespassing to me if they do not have my permission.
They all diminish the enjoyment and privacy I have on my own land which is why I own land in the first place.
I own a pretty decent drone for farm use and have never once used or even considered using it for any type of hunting purpose and do not plan to.

 

[Ishi]

As a state we must fight off any use of drone activity for hunting whitetails or any other creature period

 

[Butch973]

Those drone deer recovery videos are pretty cool, but that’s as far as I think they should be allowed as far as that. I am super curious about using them too spray my food plots and seed cover crops or to deliver me a pizza after I’ve already eaten all my snacks before noon on and all day sit! Lol

 

[hillrunner]

Do u feel that RECOVERY of shot deer is putting drones into hunting? Just wanna make sure i understand right. & in either case…. I’d say I agree with u far more than disagree. I see a clear case where drones could be used to locate & hunt deer & I absolutely agree that “cannot fly”.
We also need to understand the realities & make laws accordingly…. We cannot ban drones. Next- we can’t ban someone from looking at “deer” or anything like it with a drone. We must have Clear language or more clear language on use of drones & hunting. Just like if I fly a plane over Alaska…. I can’t hunt for xyz time. Can’t ban planes like we aren’t gonna ban drones. We need good laws limiting them or clear language & penalties. Whether it’s Easy or hard to enforce is secondary in discussion after clearly understood laws.

Yes, I do feel that using drones for recovery is a big step in the wrong direction. I was and still am 100% in favor of dogs for deer recovery. Drones on the other hand have way too much potential for evil.
I've watched a few of those drone deer recovery videos and they scare the crap out of me. I wish that thermal technology didn't exist. The hand held stuff like the scope I have on a rifle are bad enough. On a drone , neither man nor beast can hide from it while above ground. I do not like the idea of being able to locate any living creature at any time. What could this technology do when paired with AI?
Unfortunately, the cat is out of the bag.

 

[newfarmer]

Yes, I do feel that using drones for recovery is a big step in the wrong direction. I was and still am 100% in favor of dogs for deer recovery. Drones on the other hand have way too much potential for evil.
I've watched a few of those drone deer recovery videos and they scare the crap out of me. I wish that thermal technology didn't exist. The hand held stuff like the scope I have on a rifle are bad enough. On a drone , neither man nor beast can hide from it while above ground. I do not like the idea of being able to locate any living creature at any time. What could this technology do when paired with AI?
Unfortunately, the cat is out of the bag

And unfortunately, like everything, you will only keep honest people honest- and the ones that will abuse it will take it off the deep end.

 

[Sligh1]

All good stuff. I want to understand all POV on this. I’ve talked to 10+ dnr officers on this “what’s thoughts. Where’s threats?” Got a ton of feedback. Listened to proponents of Deer RECOVERY & the merits there. Opponents to it…. Listening & understanding.
At a federal level- totally different discussion…. My GUESS…. Like em or not- they are probably here to stay. I’ll admit, on a very basic level of a tool, having a drone do spraying or spreading is incredibly appealing. Now, can a terrorist use it to deliver a bio-weapon or a bomb or who knows what? I’m sure. That’s just a huge deep debate & I realize folks should understand this…. There will be a lot more debate on drones for that subject than with deer of course. A lot of folks in ag space were talking about DJI being banned & not being able to use them anymore. On that subject…. I’ll eat my popcorn, listen to debate & deal with whatever comes from it.

 

[2-bucks]

PLEASE believe me on this!! Drone technology is absolutely our generations fight. In LIFE!! Not just hunting. This issue is way way bigger than recovering a deer.. If you value your freedom at all you should be highly skeptical about any future regulations relaxing the current use of drones. This subject is much bigger than deer hunting and I guarantee you there are plenty of people laughing at us that there are people worried about how this is going to affect deer hunting…. Deer hunting is small potatoes in the grand scheme of the drone world.


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Agreed. in general I don't like regulation BUT I recognize at times it is needed. I definitely don't like my privacy, what I feel is, invaded. I can't see where a drone should be able to fly over my backyard pool and video my teenage daughter sunbathing, nor look in my windows, nor check out where all the deer are hanging on my property (much less egregious than the first two examples though). I don't know what the exact regulations or 'fix' is but do believe drone usage needs to be put in check.

Maybe something like any drone with video or photo capability can only be flown over private property with permission of the landowner??? That way if I shoot one down over my property I wont be the one charged like current regs are written.

 

[2-bucks]

All good stuff. I want to understand all POV on this. I’ve talked to 10+ dnr officers on this “what’s thoughts. Where’s threats?” Got a ton of feedback. Listened to proponents of Deer RECOVERY & the merits there. Opponents to it…. Listening & understanding.
At a federal level- totally different discussion…. My GUESS…. Like em or not- they are probably here to stay. I’ll admit, on a very basic level of a tool, having a drone do spraying or spreading is incredibly appealing. Now, can a terrorist use it to deliver a bio-weapon or a bomb or who knows what? I’m sure. That’s just a huge deep debate & I realize folks should understand this…. There will be a lot more debate on drones for that subject than with deer of course. A lot of folks in ag space were talking about DJI being banned & not being able to use them anymore. On that subject…. I’ll eat my popcorn, listen to debate & deal with whatever comes from it.

I had not thought much about of the spraying drones. I can see the great application for them in farming. However, I can see complete chaos and harm caused with one flying over a major even and spraying a hazardous chemical and crashing into the crowd.

 

[Hawk32]

No way shape or form drones should be legal for any reason to do with any form of hunting.

 

[Sligh1]

No way shape or form drones should be legal for any reason to do with any form of hunting.

I totally understand you all’s position on this & I agree they should not be used for hunting.
I think the issue of DEER RECOVERY is gonna have a fairly split response among hunters. That’s just a reality regardless of my opinion or anyone’s view.

Lemme ask u guys this…. Is there anyone here that’s against it for hunting (rightfully so) that would be in favor of it for limited, highly regulated recovery of deer? Lemme add this to what I’ve mentioned before…. The discussion has my attention or has merit IF IF IF this is the case…. I’d suspect & Take a wild guess that 10,000+ deer get shot each year and not successfully recovered. We’ve all been there & I suspect a pile of guys are thinking “I’ll find the buck I shot during shed season” & probably a big pile of those folks tagged out on another buck after shooting first one. IF we could recover say, a couple thousand bucks across state & tag those guys out…. It would keep those guys from shooting another buck & also remove them from land - reducing pressure. THAT outcome is very real & EXTREMELY beneficial to the herd, other hunters, age class, pressure, locking up land, etc. On top of the benefit of the ethical issue of “every method & attempt to recover a dead deer”. Recovering dead deer, ending your season & tagging out vs letting them go to waste & shooting another buck is a HUUUUGGGEEE benefit.
For what it’s worth…. There’s going to be some significant support from non-hunting public & legislators to use tools like drones to recover dead deer… ethical, waste & emotional reasons.

That leads us here…. 3 questions, scenarios, positions or discussions...
1) If we can use to recover (we almost have to agree that if used exactly & only for that - it’s a benefit) & can limit or eliminate its abuse… would we be for this? YES or If the answer is NO…. Why?
2) If the answer is “yes, but we can’t eliminate the abuse”…. That’s another debate as I do think we could eliminate or extremely limit its abuse. Let me pose solutions or a viable path there or let’s understand the view of the proponents of that.
3) absolutely cannot be used for recovery. Even if there’s no abuse, it has no place in recovering deer.

Play that out & at least help me understand where you fall there. I know this is a contentious topic so let’s keep this constructive & even if there’s different views…. Let’s understand them.

 

[newfarmer]

I totally understand you all’s position on this & I agree they should not be used for hunting.
I think the issue of DEER RECOVERY is gonna have a fairly split response among hunters. That’s just a reality regardless of my opinion or anyone’s view.

Lemme ask u guys this…. Is there anyone here that’s against it for hunting (rightfully so) that would be in favor of it for limited, highly regulated recovery of deer? Lemme add this to what I’ve mentioned before…. The discussion has my attention or has merit IF IF IF this is the case…. I’d suspect & Take a wild guess that 10,000+ deer get shot each year and not successfully recovered. We’ve al been there & I suspect a pile of guys are thinking “I’ll find the buck I shot during shed season”. IF we could recover say, a couple thousand bucks across state & tag those guys out…. It would keep those guys from shooting another buck & also remove them from land - reducing pressure. THAT outcome is very real & EXTREMELY beneficial to the herd, other hunters, age class, pressure, locking up land, etc. On top of the benefit of the ethical issue of “every method & attempt to recover a dead deer”. Recovering dead deer, ending your season & tagging out vs letting them go to waste & shooting another buck is a HUUUUGGGEEE benefit.
That leads us here…. 3 questions, scenarios, positions or discussions... 1) If we can use to recover (we almost have to agree that if used exactly & only for that - it’s a benefit) & can limit or eliminate its abuse… would we be for this? YES or If the answer is NO…. Why? 2) If the answer is “yes, but we can’t eliminate the abuse”…. That’s another debate as I do think we could eliminate or extremely limit its abuse. Let me pose solutions or a viable path there or let’s understand the view of the proponents of that. 3) absolutely cannot be used for recovery. Even if there’s no abuse, it has no place in recovering deer.
Play that out & at least help me understand where you fall there. I know this is a contentious topic so let’s keep this constructive & even if there’s different views…. Let’s understand them.

I feel like recovery could be useful, but very strict regulations. As in, hunter cannot see screen, cannot gain any intel on the herd, etc etc. Would have to be licensed with the State DNR in order to regulate it properly. I think its a rabbit hole you could go down for strict regulations- absolutely. However, like most things and what are we worried about most -crossbow- once the door is opened, how far does that door go open and would we be able to ever shut it...I think thats a bigger concern for everyone.
Cell cameras- every single company could make it where a cell cam could send at Midnight only- easy solution to a cell cam fix. Security options would take a hit, but you could always get a different camera for that- and again- you can only keep the honest folks honest, so its going to be super hard on anything once the door is opened.

 

[Rous14]

I totally understand you all’s position on this & I agree they should not be used for hunting.
I think the issue of DEER RECOVERY is gonna have a fairly split response among hunters. That’s just a reality regardless of my opinion or anyone’s view.

Lemme ask u guys this…. Is there anyone here that’s against it for hunting (rightfully so) that would be in favor of it for limited, highly regulated recovery of deer? Lemme add this to what I’ve mentioned before…. The discussion has my attention or has merit IF IF IF this is the case…. I’d suspect & Take a wild guess that 10,000+ deer get shot each year and not successfully recovered. We’ve all been there & I suspect a pile of guys are thinking “I’ll find the buck I shot during shed season” & probably a big pile of those folks tagged out on another buck after shooting first one. IF we could recover say, a couple thousand bucks across state & tag those guys out…. It would keep those guys from shooting another buck & also remove them from land - reducing pressure. THAT outcome is very real & EXTREMELY beneficial to the herd, other hunters, age class, pressure, locking up land, etc. On top of the benefit of the ethical issue of “every method & attempt to recover a dead deer”. Recovering dead deer, ending your season & tagging out vs letting them go to waste & shooting another buck is a HUUUUGGGEEE benefit.
For what it’s worth…. There’s going to be some significant support from non-hunting public & legislators to use tools like drones to recover dead deer… ethical, waste & emotional reasons.

That leads us here…. 3 questions, scenarios, positions or discussions...
1) If we can use to recover (we almost have to agree that if used exactly & only for that - it’s a benefit) & can limit or eliminate its abuse… would we be for this? YES or If the answer is NO…. Why?
2) If the answer is “yes, but we can’t eliminate the abuse”…. That’s another debate as I do think we could eliminate or extremely limit its abuse. Let me pose solutions or a viable path there or let’s understand the view of the proponents of that.
3) absolutely cannot be used for recovery. Even if there’s no abuse, it has no place in recovering deer.

Play that out & at least help me understand where you fall there. I know this is a contentious topic so let’s keep this constructive & even if there’s different views…. Let’s understand them.

I guess my original post has turned in to more of a for/against or pros/cons of recovering deer w them and just want to note that deer recovery had NOTHING to do with my post. Which is fine.
Just want to clarify for everyone……
-Intention or thought process was NOT to use drones for recovery. (I’m kinda impartial on that debate)
-Was NOT for use in helping any of us locate or find big deer
-Was NOT for helping anyone kill deer or use similarly to cell cams
-100% management driven, not a way to make killing deer easier.

My thought was that there has never been a way for either the DNR or say conservation groups to truly track and survey things like the age structure of the herd. The buck to doe ratio of the herd. The true/accurate population of the herd. (I saw a comment that departments don’t care about this stuff. Probably true to some extent depending on the state. But Skip says Iowas does. As hunters we do, and this may be a way to take the fight to them.)

i see debates and varying view points on these topics all the time and just thought this could be a way to truly take everyone’s “opinions” out of it and replace it with more reliable info. which would allow for a much better managed herd.

Think of it this way too…..all of the effort that folks like Skip are making with the politicians to educate them on the importance of quality/age structure, the decline of the herd in IA when it comes to not only quality but also quantity, the battle against the farm bureau and insurance co’s, etc….his presentation to them gets WAY more powerful and effective with this data. Makes proving his case way easier imo. No more “I don’t trust the government or the DNR‘s numbers, I know by what I’m seeing out there”- if the largest most powerful whitetail conservation group in Iowa has better info than the DNR we are much more likely to get folks to listen to us and take us seriously.

 

[hans1]

I like the management potential for sure. A friend just had his farm flown and the deer counted. His area was hit by EHD pretty bad this past year. This flight counted 175 deer on over 600 acres. Would have loved to have last years total to compare it to. As far as recovery i think the only way I would support this is if it was very regulated and allowed by Licensed pilots
With strict ethic/and reporting requirements . The real problem is with a deer that is found but not dead. Does this information get passed to the hunter who can then continue the hunt/recovery.

 

[scottonbuck]

I totally understand you all’s position on this & I agree they should not be used for hunting.
I think the issue of DEER RECOVERY is gonna have a fairly split response among hunters. That’s just a reality regardless of my opinion or anyone’s view.

Lemme ask u guys this…. Is there anyone here that’s against it for hunting (rightfully so) that would be in favor of it for limited, highly regulated recovery of deer? Lemme add this to what I’ve mentioned before…. The discussion has my attention or has merit IF IF IF this is the case…. I’d suspect & Take a wild guess that 10,000+ deer get shot each year and not successfully recovered. We’ve all been there & I suspect a pile of guys are thinking “I’ll find the buck I shot during shed season” & probably a big pile of those folks tagged out on another buck after shooting first one. IF we could recover say, a couple thousand bucks across state & tag those guys out…. It would keep those guys from shooting another buck & also remove them from land - reducing pressure. THAT outcome is very real & EXTREMELY beneficial to the herd, other hunters, age class, pressure, locking up land, etc. On top of the benefit of the ethical issue of “every method & attempt to recover a dead deer”. Recovering dead deer, ending your season & tagging out vs letting them go to waste & shooting another buck is a HUUUUGGGEEE benefit.
For what it’s worth…. There’s going to be some significant support from non-hunting public & legislators to use tools like drones to recover dead deer… ethical, waste & emotional reasons.

That leads us here…. 3 questions, scenarios, positions or discussions...
1) If we can use to recover (we almost have to agree that if used exactly & only for that - it’s a benefit) & can limit or eliminate its abuse… would we be for this? YES or If the answer is NO…. Why?
2) If the answer is “yes, but we can’t eliminate the abuse”…. That’s another debate as I do think we could eliminate or extremely limit its abuse. Let me pose solutions or a viable path there or let’s understand the view of the proponents of that.
3) absolutely cannot be used for recovery. Even if there’s no abuse, it has no place in recovering deer.

Play that out & at least help me understand where you fall there. I know this is a contentious topic so let’s keep this constructive & even if there’s different views…. Let’s understand them.

Skip,
I agree that if they tag out they wont shoot another deer, but currently they have the options to have a dog come and and track a wounded deer but those cost money to have come in and do a tracking. The same with Drones those guys arent going to do it for free and the same hunters that wont pay for a dog wont pay for a drone. So overall there wont be a net change in recovered deer. Most guys are not going out and spending 10k on a drone to have just in case they may need to track a deer.
You will however have guys that are more than willing to pay to have a deer recovered and those are the same guys paying to have a dog come in today.
I say don't give an inch on drones and keep them out of anything hunting related.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Lots of good points on drones. In 20 years of working with drones and drone operators I’ve seen how awesome their capabilities are. I’ve also seen how totally unenforceable the current regulations governing them are. At one point in time our government determined that drones were aircraft and fell under the jurisdiction of the FAA. That did two things. It tasked the FAA with safely integrating them into our national airspace system and it made it a federal crime to shoot them down. In 2012 they were supposed to start working on the regulations with a goal to have something by 2013. The FAA could find no way to safely integrate them. After years of dragging their feet limited use/commercial use slowly began to roll out until we got to our current set of regulations. Due to public/congressional pressure the meaningful regulation of drones will actually continue to be less and less until either one hits a commercial airliner or is used in a terrorist attack. I’ve never seen a federal agency act so powerless when it comes to regulation than the FAA is when drones are brought up. They all know they will eventually get all the blame when something does eventually go bad. The technology that can and will be done with drones is awesome and limitless. Just try to look into it a little. It can be quite the rabbit hole but there really is a lot to be paying attention to in the future when it comes to our freedoms.


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[JNRBRONC]

Lots of good points on drones. In 20 years of working with drones and drone operators I’ve seen how awesome their capabilities are. I’ve also seen how totally unenforceable the current regulations governing them are. At one point in time our government determined that drones were aircraft and fell under the jurisdiction of the FAA. That did two things. It tasked the FAA with safely integrating them into our national airspace system and it made it a federal crime to shoot them down. In 2012 they were supposed to start working on the regulations with a goal to have something by 2013. The FAA could find no way to safely integrate them. After years of dragging their feet limited use/commercial use slowly began to roll out until we got to our current set of regulations. Due to public/congressional pressure the meaningful regulation of drones will actually continue to be less and less until either one hits a commercial airliner or is used in a terrorist attack. I’ve never seen a federal agency act so powerless when it comes to regulation than the FAA is when drones are brought up. They all know they will eventually get all the blame when something does eventually go bad. The technology that can and will be done with drones is awesome and limitless. Just try to look into it a little. It can be quite the rabbit hole but there really is a lot to be paying attention to in the future when it comes to our freedoms.


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And the moron who flew a drone in LA that hit a water dumping plane, taking it out of commission. SMH

 

[booneriverbucks]

And the moron who flew a drone in LA that hit a water dumping plane, taking it out of commission. SMH

Unfortunately mitigating scenarios like this has been part of my experience in drones and aviation in general.


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