Giant Deer of Iowa are rapidly becoming a past memory

[Sligh1]

Agree here and with qdm. Like it or not this is what we have and sorry to throw in the towel on change but this where we are. Outside of increasing herd size substantially there isn’t much that can be done. Habitat loss and the greed/desire of horn porn will not change. I think there is limited chance the DNR allows the population to get back to the level it was in the hay day with farm and insurance lobby against it. And even if the DNR did head that direction EHD is a challenge of its own. Evidently there are still plenty of NR interested in coming to Iowa because some zones that took 1-2 PP 20 years ago for bow now take 4-6. But the numbers just don’t support switching to one buck will make a noticeable impact and may actually hurt in the long run with more high grading.

Population upswing in hurting regions has more support now than resistance. Because of ISC & them working with legislators & dnr + other lobbying organizations….. we are striking a balance. 2008 & after …. Brandstad & farm bureau dominated…. “Kill em all!!!!!” They don’t have that position anymore. They have lost a great deal of that power & support & the pendulum has swung towards: what’s right, the ISC, IBA, DNR - THE PEOPLE & RESOURCE & common sense.
We have way more on our side now than 5-10 years ago. The only part we can’t fix overnight is a hurting population. It’s 3-5 years away & you nailed it…. Ehd is the monkey wrench that probably will get thrown in again. I still do believe the trajectory from this point out is very positive. The good guys have the political capital, momentum & support. The bad guys have been getting their butts kicked for 3-4 years now & it’s not gonna stop.

Skip I just don’t know how access gets better with switching to a one buck state. The numbers show that only 3400 people shoot multiple bucks. As mentioned there are multiple NR landowners around me that don’t allow access while getting a tag every 4-6 years So residents all the sudden gonna open the gates to access once they fill their one buck tag. I’d be shocked if that was the case. AND if switching to one buck DID have a positive impact to mature high scoring deer for Iowa the great land grab would only increase which would further decrease access.

I totally understand what you’re saying & agree with a lot of it.
1) NRLO’s are actually slowly leaving the state. If this trend continues- more land will be owned by residents at this pace over time.
2) one buck does improve age class. It does create situations where high grading can occur. If I personally weighed the 2 out…. Age class is more important than high grading. Both are a huge deal but getting more bucks to age is more important.
3) I’m not advocating we go to 1 buck. I really do think- get population up & see where we sit. But- the states that have ….. they had or have the same argument “only small amount shot 2 bucks”. Kansas has been 1 buck since I went there in 2000. Their age class is stupid good. The top end bucks are incredible. Do some low scoring bucks get passed? YEP. More so than iowa? Eah- pretty similar. Guys in iowa won’t even tag em “don’t wanna screw my hunt up” or “don’t wanna burn my tag on that”. I’m not knocking them- that’s just the reality. & yes, even on a tiny parcel- if u prioritize someone tagging that cull buck- you can do it without screwing your farm up ….. & the argument ill make…. It’s not screwing your farm up- it’s making it way better!!!! U let a bully cull rule the roost on your “80 acres with 30 acres timber” - he could run the whole place…. Take him out & often 2-3 other bucks will move in. There’s so many reasons shooting culls is important & easily achievable if you prioritize it.
But yes- one buck is not our priority today IMO & I don’t disagree with a lot of the previous comments. Do I think folks need more than “1 buck & 4 does” NO. But- the practicality & reasoning to change it…. I firmly believe we need to fix some other issues like population & see how we are sitting. Likely resolves things.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Increasing the overall population definitely seems to be the key.. Also one of the few things you will actually get the majority of hunters to agree with.. One thing that is often brought up when speaking numbers is the depredation program. Most are against it.. I’ve seen it work well in areas and would argue it should be expanded.. IF, big IF, county wide antlerless tags were drastically reduced. This could lead to a more targeted antlerless harvests and less guys overharvesting on public and other areas where the population is low.. Obviously the late depredation season will always be dumb. Also could potentially lead to saving a few bucks. If no extra doe tag is available some might choose to shoot one and be done instead of filling their additional tag on the first antlerless deer they see and continuing to hunt for a buck.

 

[Daver]

...

I may regret sharing this, as the person that made this comment recently may actually read this here, but...here goes.

In the name of NOT high grading, greatly aided by cell cams BTW, a few of us neighbors recently declared a particular buck to NOT be a shooter this year. (We have him on regular trail cam, as we don't use cell cams for deer.)

The neighbors in this circle can be trusted to then NOT shoot this guy. In fact, between myself, my son and at least one close neighbor, this buck was given at least 4 passes last year, with archery equipment. I had him at 7 yards last year on Halloween, FWIW. I never said this buck is particularly wily.

So far, so good. But then that 'pact" was shared with another neighbor who has pledged previously to also be persuaded not to shoot certain bucks, despite doing so more than once in the past. Their comment, "I don't know, that's a real nice one for my "XX" acres." With "XX" being significantly less than 100 acres. And there it is...

I'll say again, there was a day not all that long ago where such intel just wasn't even a thing and therefore, this hi po buck would have a LOT more of chance to make it to next year, etc. Now..."everyone" knows about them and it only takes one shooter in the neighborhood to make sure such a beast does not reach their potential.

We're too dang good as hunters these days and/or we have way too much technology, and consequently intel, on our side...IMO.

FWIW...the subject buck from my example ^^ was harvested the other evening. Just off of my adjacent neighbor's property. I am NOT suggesting that anything illegal or unethical was done at all, because I don't know that AND I truly suspect that it was on the up and up. But...a hi po 4 year old that had been passed multiple times was cracked the first time it could be by another hunter who either didn't know his age OR didn't care.

It is SUPER hard to get the hi po's to 5 or more these days if they roam around at all.

 

[booneriverbucks]

FWIW...the subject buck from my example ^^ was harvested the other evening. Just off of my adjacent neighbor's property. I am NOT suggesting that anything illegal or unethical was done at all, because I don't know that AND I truly suspect that it was on the up and up. But...a hi po 4 year old that had been passed multiple times was cracked the first time it could be by another hunter who either didn't know his age OR didn't care.

It is SUPER hard to get the hi po's to 5 or more these days if they roam around at all.

It totally is!! Completely hypothetical but what if the guy who tagged it never had a pic of him and just had his best day hunting ever?!! Is that really a bad thing?? I still agree that our 24/7 surveillance needs to change. We have to get back to being surprised when we see a good one and not be dissapointed when the mature buck we’ve named since he was a year and a half does’t show up. All the technology we have has without a doubt made many of us more proficient in passing younger deer and letting them grow to maturity. It has also let everyone else target the best young ones with great potential. Nobody is necessarily wrong in either situation. Few were born into hunting only 5/6+ year old deer. It takes time and success to get to that level. Hopefully the guy is thrilled to wrap his tag around him at least!

 

[Daver]

It totally is!! Completely hypothetical but what if the guy who tagged it never had a pic of him and just had his best day hunting ever?!! Is that really a bad thing?? I still agree that our 24/7 surveillance needs to change. We have to get back to being surprised when we see a good one and not be dissapointed when the mature buck we’ve named since he was a year and a half does’t show up. All the technology we have has without a doubt made many of us more proficient in passing younger deer and letting them grow to maturity. It has also let everyone else target the best young ones with great potential. Nobody is necessarily wrong in either situation. Few were born into hunting only 5/6+ year old deer. It takes time and success to get to that level. Hopefully the guy is thrilled to wrap his tag around him at least!

Well said ^^...I totally agree. My point in sharing was just to illustrate the realities of high grading, which has received much mention here. Deservedly so, IMO, as a factor these days as to why giant deer are more scarce. Aided, I think, largely by technology, most specifically cell cams. FWIW.

Disclaimer...I don't know what role cell cams played here, if any, but as I said in an earlier post...there are NO SURPRISE bucks anymore. Or, so few as to be none, in effect. I do know that the fortunate hunter had him "on cam" this year, so definitely not a surprise buck in that sense. I don't know if he had pics from previous years, etc.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Completely agree!! There are no secrets anymore!! $50 per cam along with $5-10 a month can replace hours of scouting most don’t have time for… not to let non cell cams completely off the hook either.. some have great access to check them on a routine basis with minimum intrusion . Either way, there are no secrets anymore. Every buck is known and without a doubt goes by several different “names”. Add in drone “surveys” and everything else and it only gets worse. That’s before we even get into the fencing to keep them from going to the neighbors that seems to gets more popular every year.

 

[hillrunner]

Completely agree!! There are no secrets anymore!! $50 per cam along with $5-10 a month can replace hours of scouting most don’t have time for… not to let non cell cams completely off the hook either.. some have great access to check them on a routine basis with minimum intrusion . Either way, there are no secrets anymore. Every buck is known and without a doubt goes by several different “names”. Add in drone “surveys” and everything else and it only gets worse. That’s before we even get into the fencing to keep them from going to the neighbors that seems to gets more popular every year.

I agree, cheap cell cams or linked cams are becoming an issue. It's not much of a stretch anymore for a guy to buy a couple dozen or more and throw out a net. That would sure make finding those October bucks a lot easier. Once found, those bucks are pretty vulnerable.

Thermal drones will be cheaper someday too. I'd like to see a hard line drawn in the sand on those things. I think there is plenty of gray area at the moment.

Most guys I know who use cell cams are not using them in a nefarious way, but there are plenty of people pushing the line on fair chase.
As with all of society, cultural trends will continually push the envelope until what was once considered taboo is now normal.

I can still remember the discussions on this site concerning cell cams when they were first introduced. It was pretty well agreed that they were crossing the line. I'm not sure at what point that changed. I did a quick search and found 1 old post, I know there was more.

Thread 'Internet Trail Cam'

May 4, 2006

I was looking through my redhead archery catelog i just received and they have a trail cam that sends your trial cam pictures to your email. Anyone heard anything about these and if they are worth it? Looks like a lot to get setup and kind of pricey, but if you can stay out of the woods that much longer without disturbing anything. What else are they going to come up with? A alarm that goes off when you have a deer aproaching your stand.

• Steve-O
• Replies: 13
• Forum: Trail Cams

 

[booneriverbucks]

I agree, cheap cell cams or linked cams are becoming an issue. It's not much of a stretch anymore for a guy to buy a couple dozen or more and throw out a net. That would sure make finding those October bucks a lot easier. Once found, those bucks are pretty vulnerable.

Thermal drones will be cheaper someday too. I'd like to see a hard line drawn in the sand on those things. I think there is plenty of gray area at the moment.

Most guys I know who use cell cams are not using them in a nefarious way, but there are plenty of people pushing the line on fair chase.
As with all of society, cultural trends will continually push the envelope until what was once considered taboo is now normal.

I can still remember the discussions on this site concerning cell cams when they were first introduced. It was pretty well agreed that they were crossing the line. I'm not sure at what point that changed. I did a quick search and found 1 old post, I know there was more.

Thread 'Internet Trail Cam'

May 4, 2006

I was looking through my redhead archery catelog i just received and they have a trail cam that sends your trial cam pictures to your email. Anyone heard anything about these and if they are worth it? Looks like a lot to get setup and kind of pricey, but if you can stay out of the woods that much longer without disturbing anything. What else are they going to come up with? A alarm that goes off when you have a deer aproaching your stand.

• Steve-O
• Replies: 13
• Forum: Trail Cams

Totally agree!! I actually suspect there is a very small percentage of people using cell cams “nefariously”. It has more to do with cam use in general in my opinion and the lack of secrets anymore.. A “drone survey” post/pre season may not seem like a big deal to some, but knowing where mature bucks bed is half the battle. Not to be crude but it’s a little like taking a look “up the skirt” or whatever. Not quite sure how to word that. Either way, knowing where “target” deer are living at has without a doubt put a dent in them.

 

[AU91]

Totally agree!! I actually suspect there is a very small percentage of people using cell cams “nefariously”. It has more to do with cam use in general in my opinion and the lack of secrets anymore.. A “drone survey” post/pre season may not seem like a big deal to some, but knowing where mature bucks bed is half the battle. Not to be crude but it’s a little like taking a look “up the skirt” or whatever. Not quite sure how to word that. Either way, knowing where “target” deer are living at has without a doubt put a dent in them.

I have had this same thought about drone surveys and completely agree! Pretty much all the “big name” hunters on YouTube have put out videos this year showing they are having them done. Obviously bucks can change their bedding locations throughout the year but seeing them on live video hunkered down in one of their bedrooms is yet another tip of the scale out of favor of the deer

I know there’s benefits to the surveys related to buck/doe ratio, deer populations, etc but wish the guys having them done were not made privy to where specific deer were at

 

[booneriverbucks]

I have had this same thought about drone surveys and completely agree! Pretty much all the “big name” hunters on YouTube have put out videos this year showing they are having them done. Obviously bucks can change their bedding locations throughout the year but seeing them on live video hunkered down in one of their bedrooms is yet another tip of the scale out of favor of the deer

I know there’s benefits to the surveys related to buck/doe ratio, deer populations, etc but wish the guys having them done were not made privy to where specific deer were at

Who actually “benefits”?? Totally agree. The deer and and the hunters both were fine before these “surveys”. Not knocking anyone who has tried them as they are totally legal. Totally awesome intel to get too and I’m sure it’s awesome to see. Grand scheme tho are “we” really better off?? Hunter A gets drone surveys, “and recovery”, cell cams, proposes limits to other hunters, especially gun hunters, and calls himself a hunting purist who only cares about the “deer” while others who use limited technology and enjoy our traditional privileges are made out to be the boogeyman than has ruined hunting… I just have a hard time squaring that all up.

 

[thecreedeer]

I don't think that moving to a one buck state would create less opportunities afield for Iowa resident hunters. This would be one buck for all hunters landowner or not. This would not mean that after a successful harvest your season is completely over, but your buck tag is now filled. This would be more mature bucks for all hunters. I did agree with a post stating that "Hunters want to hit the easy button", I agree completely with this statement. The ultimate discipline is being able to pass a buck that may very well be the best deer you may see the entire season. I want to make it clear I am in no way encouraging our young hunters to take part in the extreme management because taking part in the harvest of any deer is crucial to their learning. Kids should start at the bottom of the scale, and it should be fun. I am saying that with increased hunting experiences comes with choices. I really hope we can see a change in our state's regulations because I still believe we can make it better

 

[iowaqdm]

I don’t think that cell cams are doing as much damage to trophy potential as people think when compared to regular trail cams. Cell cameras really only became affordable to the masses in what the last five to maybe ten years. During that same time period we have had the major EHD kills that decimated the herd and in some areas took out a significant number of upper age class bucks.

So do cell cameras really help hunters kill mature bucks more effectively than regular trail cameras??? I could see if you got a buck on a food source late season in the morning and so you went there that night knowing the odds are he will bed close and return that night. Hoping that he shows before shooting hours ends. But before cell cams guys just slipped in and check regular trail cams on multiple food sources mid day late season and accomplished the same thing. So no real advantage there. I could see if your gun hunting and got a good one on camera so you still hunted into the area to try and locate him. I could also see if you have multiple farms and had one show up so you went to hunt that farm that day vs another location trying to put the odds in your favor. That makes sense to me but does that really result in that many successful hunts on trophy class buck. Or if you have one show up and you drive three States to hunt hoping he didn’t just pass through. Again, does that really result in that many successful hunts??? Even in those situations you have to get in undetected, not bump other deer that will spook the target buck. So many other variables that have to play out for that to be successful on one of the smartest animals in the herd.

Are guys really like man before I had cell cams I never killed 160” deer now with cell cams I kill one every year. I just don’t think that is the case. I would bet more guys would be like...man before I had standing corn, standing beans, clover and turnip plots with box blinds I could hardly tag a 160”. Now it is every year. Heck, I am getting so good at it my taxidermist knows me by first and last name. Hell he knows my credit card number better than I do! I would bet the latter has more to do with successful harvests of 3.5 year old 150” plus deer than the cell cams. I bet cell cameras wouldn’t even be a close second.

I guess besides banning them completely which I am not for and will explain later. What rules would put cell cams back at the same level as regular trail cams which few complained about or thought were causing a decline in trophy quality. As others have mentioned you could have cameras drop pictures after midnight of the day they were taken however does that really do much? The guy is still going to know about the deer just a few hours later.

This time of year I don’t see any advantage cell cameras give to killing top end bucks other than letting you know they exist. Because a buck could stroll by your camera and by time you walked in to hunt the closest stand he could easily be a mile away or laying twenty yards away from your stand and you blow him out. I guess I personally don’t really care where I get a picture of a buck this time of year because I am not hunting bucks. I am hunting does. I want to know where the does will be feeding, where they will be bedding, and the best pinch point between those two locations or a pinch point between two different doe bedding locations. The bucks will usually be trolling between those locations unless they already have one separated and locked down somewhere else. Which I don’t care about. You are hoping to catch the buck between does or following one that is not quite ready. So chasing a buck picture this time of year doesn’t make sense to me. I use cell cams/trail cameras this time of the year strictly to try to identify and age any new bucks that show up so I can determine if they are a shooter or something that should be passed prior to having an encounter with them. This is especially important now because if the buck shows up late season and has lost 25% of his body mass it can be more difficult to judge age. I feel for me it is much easier know the deer and to have made that management decision prior to even seeing them while hunting. That way you know whether or not you need to to grab the bow off the hanger when you see them coming.

Most of my cameras are also in good areas for surveillance purposes which is my biggest dilemma with restricting their use and why I would be opposed to banning them.

I think a huge positive for using cell cameras is they are trespassers/poacher deterrents and are an overall plus to trophy potential from that aspect alone. I think people have to have a big set on them or nothing between their ears to knowingly cross a property line in this day and age. To know that a landowner can have an image of you (the trespasser/poacher) on his phone in seconds after a picture is taken. Then that landowner can make one call to the game warden followed by a text with that picture to the wardens phone so he knows where you were, what you are wearing and the direction you were headed. All done in less than three minutes of the picture being taken. Plus the landowner is now in his truck circling the property looking for you or your potential vehicle while the game warden is also in route. I guess I would hate to see that deterrent taken away. Because prior to cell cams people would trespass using a face mask or gator to avoid being caught. The thought of regular trail cameras didn’t deter them at all. If they saw the camera they stole the SD card, the camera or just didn’t even care and continued on. Even if they didn’t mess with the camera by the time the card was pulled that night, the next day or the next week they were long gone. I’m sure Skip could elaborate more on this topic as his neighborhood has fought this problem for years.

I guess we have all heard stories of this guy getting a picture then leaving work to go hunt and got that same target buck killed. But I don’t know of anyone personally that has pulled that off. Is that success reproducible without bait piles like other States allow or more just dumb luck? I would be curious to hear first hand how guys are actually using cell cameras in a unique way different from regular trail cameras to turn the table on mature bucks? Because I personally don’t see the advantage from a hunting standpoint other than the convenience and lack of disturbance of not having to retrieve SD cards, but not much else.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Cell cams have changed things drastically. To say otherwise is frankly shocking.

1. Everyone is hunting on MRI now (most recent information)

2. Parcels of grounds that went untouched and overlooked have cell cameras now. Deer havd no where to hide.

 

[Hardwood11]

Without cell cams I’d never know about this guy!

 

[JNRBRONC]

One of my first cams was 35 mm film. Let's roll back from cell and SD cards to that! Ha ha.

 

[iowaqdm]

Cell cams have changed things drastically. To say otherwise is frankly shocking.

1. Everyone is hunting on MRI now (most recent information)

2. Parcels of grounds that went untouched and overlooked have cell cameras now. Deer havd no where to hide.

I don’t think it has changed much. I would like to hear how it has changed how YOU personally hunt. How do you use cell camera MRI differently than the info you received from running regular trail cameras. I don’t use cell cams any differently than I did regular trail cameras. I have cell cams in the exact same places I ran regular trail cameras. Primary scrapes, field edges, ponds, gate openings, etc. I use them to get and idea of the number of bucks and does. I try to identify bucks based on their specific characteristics and try to estimate their age. Decide which deer I want to pass and any potential bucks I want to target. I don’t think…oh boy this is a spot to run a cell cam because if a buck shows up on this camera I can run over here and intercept him. So how do you use them??? Seriously, I am not joking. I am always open to learning from others that know more than me or have tricks that have worked for them. God knows I am trying to learn something new everyday. Actually, learning how others are successful in life, work, habitat improvement, hunting and fishing are all at the top of my enjoyment list. I enjoy reading your habitat posts and seeing pictures of your habitat work. So, if you utilize the information differently than myself please share so you can help all of us be better at killing booners. I believe and stand by the belief that the main thing that has changed is you don’t have to sneak in and grab an SD card at midnight in the timber or midday on a food source to have the MRI you’re wanting. So convenience and decreased disturbance by not having to go retrieve SD cards are the main benefits. However, those pesky cell cams do still eat up batteries despite having solar panels. So still more disturbance than I would like. I am waiting for someone to come out with a cell cam that can run 5 years with having to charge the battery pack and costs $1 per month per camera for the unlimited pictures and videos plan.

You said that now previously untouched parcels, now have cell cams. You think those “untouched” parcels didn’t have guys running regular trail cameras on them before? If they weren’t good enough parcels to run regular trail cameras on then why would they be good enough to invest the time and money for a cell cam? I am being serious? Why you would think or believe that?

What changes do you think could or should be made? Total ban, once a week download of photos. What are your thoughts?

 

[newfarmer]

I don’t think it has changed much. I would like to hear how it has changed how YOU personally hunt. How do you use cell camera MRI differently than the info you received from running regular trail cameras. I don’t use cell cams any differently than I did regular trail cameras. I have cell cams in the exact same places I ran regular trail cameras. Primary scrapes, field edges, ponds, gate openings, etc. I use them to get and idea of the number of bucks and does. I try to identify bucks based on their specific characteristics and try to estimate their age. Decide which deer I want to pass and any potential bucks I want to target. I don’t think…oh boy this is a spot to run a cell cam because if a buck shows up on this camera I can run over here and intercept him. So how do you use them??? Seriously, I am not joking. I am always open to learning from others that know more than me or have tricks that have worked for them. God knows I am trying to learn something new everyday. Actually, learning how others are successful in life, work, habitat improvement, hunting and fishing are all at the top of my enjoyment list. I enjoy reading your habitat posts and seeing pictures of your habitat work. So, if you utilize the information differently than myself please share so you can help all of us be better at killing booners. I believe and stand by the belief that the main thing that has changed is you don’t have to sneak in and grab an SD card at midnight in the timber or midday on a food source to have the MRI you’re wanting. So convenience and decreased disturbance by not having to go retrieve SD cards are the main benefits. However, those pesky cell cams do still eat up batteries despite having solar panels. So still more disturbance than I would like. I am waiting for someone to come out with a cell cam that can run 5 years with having to charge the battery pack and costs $1 per month per camera for the unlimited pictures and videos plan.

You said that now previously untouched parcels, now have cell cams. You think those “untouched” parcels didn’t have guys running regular trail cameras on them before? If they weren’t good enough parcels to run regular trail cameras on then why would they be good enough to invest the time and money for a cell cam? I am being serious? Why you would think or believe that?

What changes do you think could or should be made? Total ban, once a week download of photos. What are your thoughts?

My buddy has 7 cell cameras in pieces hes never stepped foot in other than to hang the cell cams. He didnt want to waste time if there really wasnt anything there. Now hes got a lot better idea of where deer are going even on pieces hes not hunting. For him, he gets a picture of a deer at 3 pm for example, and its heading out of parcel "a"- he now knows to get to parcel "b" for his best chance. Is it a guarantee, no, but hes killed more that way than he did before he had that intel.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

I don’t think it has changed much. I would like to hear how it has changed how YOU personally hunt. How do you use cell camera MRI differently than the info you received from running regular trail cameras. I don’t use cell cams any differently than I did regular trail cameras. I have cell cams in the exact same places I ran regular trail cameras. Primary scrapes, field edges, ponds, gate openings, etc. I use them to get and idea of the number of bucks and does. I try to identify bucks based on their specific characteristics and try to estimate their age. Decide which deer I want to pass and any potential bucks I want to target. I don’t think…oh boy this is a spot to run a cell cam because if a buck shows up on this camera I can run over here and intercept him. So how do you use them??? Seriously, I am not joking. I am always open to learning from others that know more than me or have tricks that have worked for them. God knows I am trying to learn something new everyday. Actually, learning how others are successful in life, work, habitat improvement, hunting and fishing are all at the top of my enjoyment list. I enjoy reading your habitat posts and seeing pictures of your habitat work. So, if you utilize the information differently than myself please share so you can help all of us be better at killing booners. I believe and stand by the belief that the main thing that has changed is you don’t have to sneak in and grab an SD card at midnight in the timber or midday on a food source to have the MRI you’re wanting. So convenience and decreased disturbance by not having to go retrieve SD cards are the main benefits. However, those pesky cell cams do still eat up batteries despite having solar panels. So still more disturbance than I would like. I am waiting for someone to come out with a cell cam that can run 5 years with having to charge the battery pack and costs $1 per month per camera for the unlimited pictures and videos plan.

You said that now previously untouched parcels, now have cell cams. You think those “untouched” parcels didn’t have guys running regular trail cameras on them before? If they weren’t good enough parcels to run regular trail cameras on then why would they be good enough to invest the time and money for a cell cam? I am being serious? Why you would think or believe that?

What changes do you think could or should be made? Total ban, once a week download of photos. What are your thoughts?

I think I've seen a thousand social media posts along the lines of "got a pic of this deer and went in after him" followed by a grip and grin photo.

Every single "celebrity " hunter has made videos about it.

Putting up regular cams on overlooked parcels takes WAY more effort. That means having to check them to get any information. Most people just weren't willing or able to put in the effort.

Apples and oranges.

Checking them also potentially means causing a disturbance and certainly leaving scent. Advantage deer.

How do I use them? I don't. Wasnt sitting well with me. Personal choice. I have them for security only now.

My proposed solution... id love to ban them (highly unlikely)

At a minimum I think they should have to be on a 24 or 48 hour delay.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

My buddy has 7 cell cameras in pieces hes never stepped foot in other than to hang the cell cams. He didnt want to waste time if there really wasnt anything there. Now hes got a lot better idea of where deer are going even on pieces hes not hunting. For him, he gets a picture of a deer at 3 pm for example, and its heading out of parcel "a"- he now knows to get to parcel "b" for his best chance. Is it a guarantee, no, but hes killed more that way than he did before he had that intel.

Exactly this. Multiple by thousands and thousands. Bad news for quality deer.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Here's why I don't buy the argument its just about needing more deer on yhe landscape (that would certainly help.

The population today is basically the same as it was 5-7 years ago. 5-7 years ago the quality was much better.

So what's changed?

Spittballing in no particular order and maybe no impact at all on some of these.

Ehd outbreaks
Cell cam explosion
Thermal hunting explosion
Enlist crops went from near zero to like 99% of beans
Straight wall law
Smokeless muzzleloadera more common.
AR pistol late season loop hole.
What else??