Bassattackr
Well-Known Member
True. They are here in MO though however.
Lots of great points in this thread. As other have mentioned, no lawmaker ever repeals laws. It’s always a one way street..
Great podcast to listen to! Steve Hansen on the Land Podcast
True. They are here in MO though however.
Lots of great points in this thread. As other have mentioned, no lawmaker ever repeals laws. It’s always a one way street..
Thinkin Rut
PMA Member
This holds true with elected representatives right on down to hunting show celebrities and podcast people. Lots of conflict of interest and brainwashing going on. If you're going to watch CNN, you need to do it with an open and functioning mind.
abell3
Well-Known Member
You can put most the blame on the hunters... Trigger control! Chip said it. Farms that got pushed once or twice years ago now are leased and hunters are harvesting the 150 3 year olds.... It's 1000% trigger control. Not many hunters are passing good 3/4 year olds. 15-20 years ago they lived because every farm wasn't being hunted each season and there wasn't cell cam. Hunter sees a 150/160s in their plot how many are not shooting him?? There isn't many hunters like minded willing to pass young giants. Very few of us.... EHD apart of it? Yes, absolutely a factor. I would have a dynamite farm if my neighbors wouldn't hunt for 2 years....
All the main points have already been made in this thread.
Growing giant deer is incredibly hard. It takes more discipline than the majority of hunters are willing to accept.
One of the questions I ask on a questionnaire for consulting clients is "are you willing to deem parts (often alot) of your farm a sanctuary? No human intrusion. Once a year to shed hunt. That's it. No exceptions. Most people can't bring themselves to do that. And that's ok. Just manage expectations accordingly. You can list dozens of other things along the same lines. Are you willing to pass a booner 4 year old?
Over utilization of farm acres and trigger control are examples of things within one's control.
It also takes a what some people might call a high level of selfishness to grow giant deer. Limiting hunting opportunities for friends and family comes to mind. There's no way around it. No one hunts my farms unless I'm sitting with them at this point. Only way to completely eliminate trigger mistakes. Is it crappy I won't let even my dad out by himself? I can definitely understand that POV. It takes what it takes.
Ehd has had a gigantic impact on overall state level populations.
I'd like to see Iowa eliminate a buck tag.
Growing giant deer is incredibly hard. It takes more discipline than the majority of hunters are willing to accept.
One of the questions I ask on a questionnaire for consulting clients is "are you willing to deem parts (often alot) of your farm a sanctuary? No human intrusion. Once a year to shed hunt. That's it. No exceptions. Most people can't bring themselves to do that. And that's ok. Just manage expectations accordingly. You can list dozens of other things along the same lines. Are you willing to pass a booner 4 year old?
Over utilization of farm acres and trigger control are examples of things within one's control.
It also takes a what some people might call a high level of selfishness to grow giant deer. Limiting hunting opportunities for friends and family comes to mind. There's no way around it. No one hunts my farms unless I'm sitting with them at this point. Only way to completely eliminate trigger mistakes. Is it crappy I won't let even my dad out by himself? I can definitely understand that POV. It takes what it takes.
Ehd has had a gigantic impact on overall state level populations.
I'd like to see Iowa eliminate a buck tag.
Thinkin Rut
PMA Member
You'd almost have to get down to one buck tag per hunter, doubt it would fly with the non landowners. You definitely could do away with the LO tags. It would probably be a fight either way...you have my vote though.
Rous14
PMA Member
Kinda replied to one of skips post w a similar thought but while all your points are 100% valid I just don’t think most of them are the root of the issue. Growing giant deer is incredibly hard. Growing a 5 year old deer regardless of the size of his rack is incredibly hard. Those statements have ALWAYS been true. The important thing to do imo is to compare and contrast WHY it’s HARDER TODAY though than it was in the 2000’s. When pointing out things like sanctuary's, habitat improvement, tsi, food plots, native grasses, trigger control,…..all things that without question make a difference…..all of those things have improved 10x, 20x, 50x? more than they were in the 2000s while the quality has dropped! Clearly, imo, it’s not bc of those things then. Play a small part maybe but in theory if this was a habitat or trigger control issue we’d have more giants today than then and we’re not even close. So the obvious question that needs examined is what’s different/worse today then it was then??
It’s 95%, imo, a simple math problem. Between ehd, liberal doe tags, the brain washing of “quality will get better with fewer deer theory”, longer seasons to kill more does, coyote/predator explosion, more efficient weapons/hunters, there’s just not enough bucks to “slip through the cracks” and make it to 5+ like there was then. Farmers, motorists, hunters all have a stake in the population level so maybe it can’t go back to what it was but asking one of those parties to take a 30-50% reduction (imagine asking a farmer to reduce his yield by that or an insurance co to reduce their premiums by that?) is why the quality is so much worse today compared to then.
Rous14
PMA Member
Wish IL would go to one buck as well.
If you went to one buck in IL and IA and cut doe tags dramatically, would only have to do that for 2 maybe 3 years and then could go back to where it is now. Just let the herd catch up a little bit for a year or two and it would make huge difference. Wishful thinking though I’m afraid
Daver
PMA Member
For our area, where I have been hunting almost exclusively now for 20+ years, I would consider the biggest factors today as:
1. Trigger control...facilitated by tremendous "intelligence" in terms of what deer exist via regular trail cams and especially cell cams. Guys freaking know what is "out there" these days v. days gone by. It used to be that we went to the field with either no idea what bucks were out there or very, very incomplete info. The farmer reports a "big buck" on his place. Well that could be anything from a 120" 8 pointer all the way up to a 200"+...you really didn't know.
Nowadays, and we are guilty too, you know every 2 year old on up and usually have a name for them. But...knowing all that, there are still plenty of guys that will not let the 150" 3 year old walk, even after pledging to do so, etc. One fact of deer hunting is that a dead 3 year old will never be a target animal when he is 5+ years old.
2. Presence of other hunters that are not casual, casual being a couple of "blind" drives per year to fill the freezer, and have skills and knowledge enough that they can put themselves in front of Mr. Big with regularity. Roughly speaking, it used to be that say 90% of the deer hunters weren't that stealthy/competent. Now...at least in some neighborhoods...they all are...and if that guy is willing to shoot a high potential, not yet mature animal...that buck is probably going to be in a freezer that year.
While much of the rest of the state is down on numbers, we weren't until we got EHD'd last summer and even now, after losing a significant number of deer, we aren't low on population in general. We are down on age class though, but seemingly not as bad as I would have anticipated. Other peoples experiences may vary for all kinds of reasons, but for me, the above reasons are the key drivers.
1. Trigger control...facilitated by tremendous "intelligence" in terms of what deer exist via regular trail cams and especially cell cams. Guys freaking know what is "out there" these days v. days gone by. It used to be that we went to the field with either no idea what bucks were out there or very, very incomplete info. The farmer reports a "big buck" on his place. Well that could be anything from a 120" 8 pointer all the way up to a 200"+...you really didn't know.
Nowadays, and we are guilty too, you know every 2 year old on up and usually have a name for them. But...knowing all that, there are still plenty of guys that will not let the 150" 3 year old walk, even after pledging to do so, etc. One fact of deer hunting is that a dead 3 year old will never be a target animal when he is 5+ years old.
2. Presence of other hunters that are not casual, casual being a couple of "blind" drives per year to fill the freezer, and have skills and knowledge enough that they can put themselves in front of Mr. Big with regularity. Roughly speaking, it used to be that say 90% of the deer hunters weren't that stealthy/competent. Now...at least in some neighborhoods...they all are...and if that guy is willing to shoot a high potential, not yet mature animal...that buck is probably going to be in a freezer that year.
While much of the rest of the state is down on numbers, we weren't until we got EHD'd last summer and even now, after losing a significant number of deer, we aren't low on population in general. We are down on age class though, but seemingly not as bad as I would have anticipated. Other peoples experiences may vary for all kinds of reasons, but for me, the above reasons are the key drivers.
Thinkin Rut
PMA Member
If landowners or anyone else as far as that goes, would practice what we preach, that would go along way. Don't let the laws determine what we should and shouldn't do, just do what's right for your own property. Self governance...crazy concept. We could do a group burn on one of our tags in front of the statehouse like the women did with their bras back in the late 60s.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
I kind of get what you are saying, but keep in mind things change and don’t come back .
Many of us remember the days of being able to hunt on multiple farms. Heck I bet I had 12 pheasant hunting farms I could access when I was a teenager.
That was when recreational land was $350/acre! You can’t expect landowners with huge money in their farms to open it up to everyone to hunt . Those days are over .
Do the best you can for access, maybe buy a chunk of ground, lease ?? It won’t go back to farms being open to public hunting (with a few exceptions).
If anything access will get more difficult. It’s not social media or big bucks—there’s more to it than that. If you are fortunate enough to have a landowner that lets you deer hunt, be thankful, do what you can to keep that relationship strong. Help him out, take him out for a steak dinner, maybe buy him tickets to a game . Sorry it’s just not FREE anymore !
Bassattackr
Well-Known Member
Agreed.. But they can also change for the better.
Back in the 1960's there were hardly any deer around in our state (MO). No one was holding out for a buck even at the time.
I don't think trigger control is better now than it was back then. I have this suspicion its worse in this regard..... People can "hold out" for that "giant" which actually in a lot (or most) cases is actually a genetically superior 3 or 4 year old because that's what their cameras tell them is the biggest antlered deer on the farm. The result is completely counter productive. Regulars on this site are in the upper 10% imo, but the general public, in my strong opinion over estimates the age of the deer they are shooting more often than not.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
What do you mean change for the better ?
we can agree to disagree, but I think eliminating one tag for everyone is pretty fair.
Bassattackr
Well-Known Member
Population wise. Huge increase.. Average antler score wise. Huge increase..
Would there be support for legislation that would only allow each Iowa resident to only Harvest a maximum of 2 Bucks per year. There would still be floating Landowner tags and your state wide tags but only 2 of which could be filled with antlered Deer.
To allow technology to go unchecked we will either have to reduce opportunity “shorter seasons” or except the currently degrading quality.
To allow technology to go unchecked we will either have to reduce opportunity “shorter seasons” or except the currently degrading quality.
Ishi
PMA Member
Yes!! Make it happen
While a good program, get rid of HUSH. You know how many people "influencers" travel to different counties to shoot deer just to donate them. Tell me thats helping.... As far as getting Iowa to a 1 buck state, that would have to be general- I dont think you could take a LOT away, or you could possibly lose even more access/valuable habitat for wildlife.
Ive opened up my piece for youth in my area- but the only person who wanted to take me up on it was a "trophy" hunter in the area who mainly wanted to know what was in my area....
Ive opened up my piece for youth in my area- but the only person who wanted to take me up on it was a "trophy" hunter in the area who mainly wanted to know what was in my area....
tall@wide
PMA Member
Sums it up accurately in my opinion. Originally in the Midwest rifles were not allowed because of flat terrain and the danger of hitting a house, structure, livestock, or people. Now muzzleloaders shoot 500 yards or more. So, it's just like shooting a high-powered centerfire rifle now. I wonder you could keep muzzleloader season but limit it to the older style muzzleloaders that shoot 100 yards =/-? That will increase age structure greatly if that change ever occurs.