HF 210 Straight wall rifle
- Thread starter Fishbonker
- Start date
-
- Tags
- None
isu22andy
Active Member
This is what happens when you let a bunch of men that only know the suit and tie dollar sign lifestyle dictate a tee shirt and blue jeans man's hobbies . I only fear it's going to get worse
The worst thing about the end of this debate and results.... to me it isn't necessarily all the fact that we yet again have a new weapon for our already liberal season..... the worst part to me is we're now going to be having this same debate and path with every other weapon type being added to our season. Slowly chip away. Little by little. Incremental changes every year "no one can disagree with". My only question is just a matter of WHEN all the other weapons are proposed for our deer season? Crossbows, rifles, new seasons... it's coming. If we learn Anything here- we better know what's coming and have a heck of a lot better way to stand up as hunters wanting to protect a fragile resource.
Personally, I think it is great. I have been hoping for this since Indiana and Ohio changed their regulations. I hunt late muzzleloader with a Super Redhawk 44 mag and hopefully will be able to hunt shotgun season with my Henry 357. Maybe my area is different but I expect little change except for seeing some 45/70's or other lever guns which are probably more accurate than a slug gun anyway.
Fishbonker
Life Member
This bill is on the Governor's desk.
Fishbonker
Life Member
Signed today.
Jon Van Wyk
New Member
Hey guys...
I have been reading both sides of the debate on a few different forums for the last several months. I think the important thing is to debate "what is" as opposed to "what could become later". Debate bills as they are written, and as they are proposed. Worry about bad bills if/when they are actually proposed. My interest in firearms came from my experience in the Marines (0311). I have never owned a shotgun, nor do I have any desire to own one. I find them to be inaccurate (comparitively speaking) with an unruly recoil. I own several "AR Platform" rifles, because they are what I am familiar with. I have them in 9mm, 5.56x45, .300 Blackout, and 7.62x51 (all suppressed).
I am not a hunter because my father was not a hunter, and I was not raised in a hunting family. However, I have always wanted to get into the sport, and would like to raise my children (6, 9, 12) with the skill. With the passage of HF475, I find myself faced with prospect of getting into the sport on a platform in which I am already an expert. You can look down your nose at people like me, and make claims of fearing "rambo wannabes" running through the woods spraying bullets everywhere with our "black rifles". But honestly, I'd prefer to share the woods with the average trained veteran and his black rifle than the average self-taught hunter and his shotgun.
So, I ask you to consider the following: What harm is done to the deer season with my ability to use a low recoiling rifle limited to 9rds of 250gr pistol bullets fired at 2,100fps on a flat trajectory to 200 yards, and no threat of overtravel beyond 300yards? I submit that this is a good law. Will there be idiots out there shooting straight wall cartridges? Maybe. But those idiots were likely already being idiots with shotguns long before HF475 was proposed. We don't outlaw cars because people might be idiots with them. We deal with the idiots as we see them, and let the responsible people go about their business.
I have been reading both sides of the debate on a few different forums for the last several months. I think the important thing is to debate "what is" as opposed to "what could become later". Debate bills as they are written, and as they are proposed. Worry about bad bills if/when they are actually proposed. My interest in firearms came from my experience in the Marines (0311). I have never owned a shotgun, nor do I have any desire to own one. I find them to be inaccurate (comparitively speaking) with an unruly recoil. I own several "AR Platform" rifles, because they are what I am familiar with. I have them in 9mm, 5.56x45, .300 Blackout, and 7.62x51 (all suppressed).
I am not a hunter because my father was not a hunter, and I was not raised in a hunting family. However, I have always wanted to get into the sport, and would like to raise my children (6, 9, 12) with the skill. With the passage of HF475, I find myself faced with prospect of getting into the sport on a platform in which I am already an expert. You can look down your nose at people like me, and make claims of fearing "rambo wannabes" running through the woods spraying bullets everywhere with our "black rifles". But honestly, I'd prefer to share the woods with the average trained veteran and his black rifle than the average self-taught hunter and his shotgun.
So, I ask you to consider the following: What harm is done to the deer season with my ability to use a low recoiling rifle limited to 9rds of 250gr pistol bullets fired at 2,100fps on a flat trajectory to 200 yards, and no threat of overtravel beyond 300yards? I submit that this is a good law. Will there be idiots out there shooting straight wall cartridges? Maybe. But those idiots were likely already being idiots with shotguns long before HF475 was proposed. We don't outlaw cars because people might be idiots with them. We deal with the idiots as we see them, and let the responsible people go about their business.
Attachments
Last edited:
Few quick things. Takes 2 seconds to see some rationale posted why this shouldn't have happened. But a few quick things...
- Glad we have responsible "experts with guns". What we need to understand- let's be real- ur likely in the 1% of guys with the training and outlook u mentioned. The "Rambo wannabe's" - no - doesn't sound like you fit that profile. Will there be a lot of guys that fit that profile that people "look down their nose at"? Absolutely. So - to answer your question- will there be idiots out there shooting straight walled cartridges?? "MAYBE?" NO..... ABSOLUTELY.
I'm the minority here. And "look down their nose types"? I'm not that guy but with a statement of opinion "like this......" I sure could be labeled one by the guys who want everything. Statements like this that I believe.... I believe there's a "reasonable %" of shotgun hunters that are already "idiots" and "rambos". I think shotgun season in the high traffic areas is: dangerous and destructive to iowa's "deer management" (to some degree almost no care taken to understand what is shot and why, button bucks, young bucks, fawns, WHATEVER - good or bad - if it's running- it's getting shot at). I've had many slugs whizz past me at close range while i was on my own land or private (in treestand) And neighbor's fired away like a war zone. We don't need war zones in Iowa. Yes- we already have a lot of them. Now- more ammo capacity, often times a bullet that would kill a person at 200-400 yards of strayed. More shooting at running deer, Etc, etc. so yes, I'm not a fan of what happens already (I'm in minority) and this is MORE of that. And yes, it's a stepping stone to more guns, seasons, weapons- it just is. Trying to argue that away is like saying Marijuana isn't a "gateway drug". It is. We do not need this law. We have access issues- not "i need more weapons" issues. The hard work the legislature should be doing is promoting things that protected our fragile resource & the main thing the POLITICIANS do not see and understand is the more and more and more ground being locked up so people can protect the resources from all these stupid regulations. Why do you think ground is being locked up everywhere? And do you not see this happening? Reality is: maybe some more "Rambos" that are gonna have fewer places to go and the places where it's a "free for all" - the regular guy that wanted a good quality hunt on "good quality land" is further hurt. Politicians don't get this.
Jon Van Wyk
New Member
I think a much higher percentage of straight wall shooters will be like me, rather than the idiot you characterize. In fact, I bet I will be more in the minority with my black rifle, as most of the straight wall shooters will probably be using lever and bolt action rifles shooting 44 Mag, 444 Marlin, and 45-70 Govt. In either case, I'm glad it's not up to those who would limit firearms to shotguns and muzzleloaders. Quite frankly, I would like to use my .308 for deer on my own land. Cheers!
Last edited:
Jon Van Wyk
New Member
I think I understand what the regs will be when they are published in August. The preliminary language for permitted straight wall cartridges in rifles during certain deer seasons is listed below. The 450 Bushmaster and 45 Raptor will be specifically included.
1. Centerfire straight-walled RIMLESS cartridges developed for handgun use with bullets of .357" - .500" diameter & case length of .850" to 1.800"
2. Centerfire straight-walled RIMMED cartridges developed for handgun use with bullets of .357" - .500" diameter & case length of 1.285" to 1.800"
3. The .375 Winchester, .444 Marlin, & .45-70 Govt will be grandfathered.
1. Centerfire straight-walled RIMLESS cartridges developed for handgun use with bullets of .357" - .500" diameter & case length of .850" to 1.800"
2. Centerfire straight-walled RIMMED cartridges developed for handgun use with bullets of .357" - .500" diameter & case length of 1.285" to 1.800"
3. The .375 Winchester, .444 Marlin, & .45-70 Govt will be grandfathered.
Last edited:
DNR News Releases
New law allows approved pistol cartridges for use in rifles to hunt deer
Iowa hunters will have a new option this fall while hunting deer during the youth season, disabled hunter season and both shotgun seasons – rifles that are capable of shooting straight walled cartridges.
The new straight wall cartridge law was passed without dissent by the Iowa Legislature, and then signed by Governor Terry Branstad on April 13. It was enacted to allow for a lower recoil option for older and younger hunters, but is available to all hunters in those four seasons.
Hunters may only use straight wall ammunition that is allowed for pistol hunting. There is a list of acceptable calibers in the Iowa Hunting and Trapping Regulations. Depending upon the caliber, some straight wall cartridges will be effective up to 100 yards, but most will be effective to around 50 yards.
The new law requires individuals caught with a rifle capable of shooting ammunition not on the approved list while hunting deer to have their hunting privileges suspended for two years and receive a $250 fine.
New law allows approved pistol cartridges for use in rifles to hunt deer
Iowa hunters will have a new option this fall while hunting deer during the youth season, disabled hunter season and both shotgun seasons – rifles that are capable of shooting straight walled cartridges.
The new straight wall cartridge law was passed without dissent by the Iowa Legislature, and then signed by Governor Terry Branstad on April 13. It was enacted to allow for a lower recoil option for older and younger hunters, but is available to all hunters in those four seasons.
Hunters may only use straight wall ammunition that is allowed for pistol hunting. There is a list of acceptable calibers in the Iowa Hunting and Trapping Regulations. Depending upon the caliber, some straight wall cartridges will be effective up to 100 yards, but most will be effective to around 50 yards.
The new law requires individuals caught with a rifle capable of shooting ammunition not on the approved list while hunting deer to have their hunting privileges suspended for two years and receive a $250 fine.
Jon Van Wyk
New Member
Your citing an ambiguous press release from 3 months ago. I'm citing the regulation as it's going to be published next month based on conversations that have taken place with the people that are writing them. Time will tell, but there will be changes to how it was written last year. Legislators and members of the NRC have assured that 450 Bushmaster is going to be among the approved cartridges.
meyeri
PMA Member
Funny thing about this whole situation is that when liberals attack our AR's, high capacity mags and our overall gun rights, we say it's the person, not the gun that is the problem. I guarantee most of you guys on here have used this same argument to defend your gun rights. I see the straight wall rifles in the same manner. Dumb people are going to be the end of deer hunting in Iowa and not some weapon with the same ballistics as what we already use.
Oct-Lull
Well-Known Member
Well said.
I'm not an ammunition expert by any stretch but how often is the question of what slug is the most accurate out of said shotgun on this site? If this new ammunition is even slightly more accurate and the travel distance not much further then slugs could it mean less deer wounded with less careless shots taken? Change is hard, be open to it.
rutnstrut
PMA Member
That would figure... I go ahead and buy a .50 Beowulf upper and then they go ahead and allow the two cartridges I was originally interested in.
gunrunr
Life Member
Has anyone seen the official list and rules published yet? - gun forum on facebook was saying they outlawed AR platform pistols for the muzzleloader season that was previously legal.
I've been recommending customers to wait a bit and see what is legal before going crazy buying or building custom guns.
I've been recommending customers to wait a bit and see what is legal before going crazy buying or building custom guns.
gunrunr
Life Member
I called the DNR and got a copy of a portion of 2017-18 Iowa Hunting Regulations
LEGAL METHOD OF TAKE
Archery: Longbows, recurve bows, and compound bows shooting broadhead arrows are permitted. No explosive or chemical devices may be attached to the arrow or broadhead. There are no minimum draw weights for bows or minimum diameter for broadheads. Arrows must be at least 18 inches long. Draw locks on compound bows are legal.
Crossbows are not legal except that a physically handicapped person, as defined on p. 13, may obtain a permit from the DNR to use a crossbow. Applications are available at www.iowadnr.gov/hunting - click on “Licenses and Laws” and then on “License Applications,” or by visiting the DNR central office or any of the district offices (p. 45), or by calling the DNR at 515-725-8200. Residents 70 and older may obtain one Antlerless-only statewide crossbow deer license. See p. 34 for details. Hunters may not carry a handgun while hunting under an archery tag, unless they have an unfilled transportation tag for a season that allows handguns or a valid permit to carry.
Shotguns: 10-, 12-, 16-, and 20-gauge shotguns shooting single slugs only.
Muzzleloaders: Flintlock or percussion cap muzzleloading rifles or muskets between .44 and .775 caliber shooting single projectiles; muzzleloading pistols .44 caliber or larger with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches and no shoulder stock or long barrel modifications. Muzzleloaders equipped with electronic ignition are not allowed. There are no restrictions on in-line or disk-type muzzleloaders. Riflescopes may also be used.
Handguns/Rifles: Center-fire handguns .357 caliber or larger, and rifles shooting straight wall ammunition with an expanding-type bullet. Mini-mum barrel length for all handguns is 4 inches. No shoulder stock or long barrel modifications are allowed in late muzzleloader season.
Hunters age 16 and under may not use any handguns. Hunters ages 17 through 20 must be accompanied by a parent, guardian or spouse who is at least 21 years old to use a handgun.
The following center-fire cartridges may be used, along with others not identified in this list that meet the straight-walled cartridge criteria in the next section below: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .375 Winchester, .38 Super, .40 S&W, .401 Powermag, 10 mm Auto, .41 Remington Magnum, .41 Action Express, .44 S&W Special, .44 Remington Magnum, .44 Automag, .444 Marlin, .445 Super Mag, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Super Mag, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Silhouette, .450 Bushmaster, .451 Detonics, .454 Casull, .45-70 Govt., .460 Rowland, .460 S&W Mag, .475 Widley Magnum, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, .50 Linebaugh, .50 Beowulf and .500 S&W Mag.
Allowable Straight-walled Cartridge Criteria:
■■Center-fired straight-walled rimless cartridges chambered for handgun use with bullets from 0.357” to 0.500” diameter and a case length from 0.850” to 1.800.”
■■Center-fired straight-walled rimmed cartridges chambered for handgun use with bullets from 0.357” to 0.500” diameter with a case length from 1.285” to 1.800.”
Crossbow: A legal weapon for residents during the Late Muzzleloader season. A crossbow consists of a bow mounted transversely on a stock or frame and designed to fire a bolt, arrow or quarrel by the release of the bow string, which is controlled by a mechanical trigger and working safety. Crossbows equipped with pistol grips and designed to be fired with one hand are illegal for taking or attempting to take deer or turkey. All projectiles used in conjunction with a crossbow for deer.
LEGAL METHOD OF TAKE
Archery: Longbows, recurve bows, and compound bows shooting broadhead arrows are permitted. No explosive or chemical devices may be attached to the arrow or broadhead. There are no minimum draw weights for bows or minimum diameter for broadheads. Arrows must be at least 18 inches long. Draw locks on compound bows are legal.
Crossbows are not legal except that a physically handicapped person, as defined on p. 13, may obtain a permit from the DNR to use a crossbow. Applications are available at www.iowadnr.gov/hunting - click on “Licenses and Laws” and then on “License Applications,” or by visiting the DNR central office or any of the district offices (p. 45), or by calling the DNR at 515-725-8200. Residents 70 and older may obtain one Antlerless-only statewide crossbow deer license. See p. 34 for details. Hunters may not carry a handgun while hunting under an archery tag, unless they have an unfilled transportation tag for a season that allows handguns or a valid permit to carry.
Shotguns: 10-, 12-, 16-, and 20-gauge shotguns shooting single slugs only.
Muzzleloaders: Flintlock or percussion cap muzzleloading rifles or muskets between .44 and .775 caliber shooting single projectiles; muzzleloading pistols .44 caliber or larger with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches and no shoulder stock or long barrel modifications. Muzzleloaders equipped with electronic ignition are not allowed. There are no restrictions on in-line or disk-type muzzleloaders. Riflescopes may also be used.
Handguns/Rifles: Center-fire handguns .357 caliber or larger, and rifles shooting straight wall ammunition with an expanding-type bullet. Mini-mum barrel length for all handguns is 4 inches. No shoulder stock or long barrel modifications are allowed in late muzzleloader season.
Hunters age 16 and under may not use any handguns. Hunters ages 17 through 20 must be accompanied by a parent, guardian or spouse who is at least 21 years old to use a handgun.
The following center-fire cartridges may be used, along with others not identified in this list that meet the straight-walled cartridge criteria in the next section below: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .375 Winchester, .38 Super, .40 S&W, .401 Powermag, 10 mm Auto, .41 Remington Magnum, .41 Action Express, .44 S&W Special, .44 Remington Magnum, .44 Automag, .444 Marlin, .445 Super Mag, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Super Mag, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Silhouette, .450 Bushmaster, .451 Detonics, .454 Casull, .45-70 Govt., .460 Rowland, .460 S&W Mag, .475 Widley Magnum, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, .50 Linebaugh, .50 Beowulf and .500 S&W Mag.
Allowable Straight-walled Cartridge Criteria:
■■Center-fired straight-walled rimless cartridges chambered for handgun use with bullets from 0.357” to 0.500” diameter and a case length from 0.850” to 1.800.”
■■Center-fired straight-walled rimmed cartridges chambered for handgun use with bullets from 0.357” to 0.500” diameter with a case length from 1.285” to 1.800.”
Crossbow: A legal weapon for residents during the Late Muzzleloader season. A crossbow consists of a bow mounted transversely on a stock or frame and designed to fire a bolt, arrow or quarrel by the release of the bow string, which is controlled by a mechanical trigger and working safety. Crossbows equipped with pistol grips and designed to be fired with one hand are illegal for taking or attempting to take deer or turkey. All projectiles used in conjunction with a crossbow for deer.
rutnstrut
PMA Member
The DNR's webmaster had sent out an email awhile back stating that they were going to tighten the "pistol" classification and outlaw AR platform pistols as a whole for all seasons but at that time it had not been officially done. That caused some uproar from some pistol enthusiasts and a local gunsmith and Iowa Firearms Coalition member was going to contact the legislators that he knew and try to cut that off before it was made official. Not sure what has actually come of it since the new regs havent been made available yet.
By the look of your last post though it appears that the "pistol" classification hasnt changed and I didnt notice anything at a glance new in the allowed calibers except the addition of the .450 bushmaster
Last edited: