IDNR Meeting

[dbltree]

I felt like Mr. Little basically thumbed his nose at us last night, but I sure am glad I went and let my thoughts be known. I talked with the DNR Rep. at our meeting afterwords (he lives only a few miles from me) and he agreed that in the southern tier of counties...there is NO access, so special seasons, more tags, etc. are simply not going to work. He does feel that education is working, however my personal feeling is that most farmers around me could care less. They just hunt opening weekend, shoot all the basket racks and are done for the year. The deer herd in this area will never be under control...period!
Anyway I'm thankful for all those who took the time to show up and be heard. I hope to be at each one from now on!

 

[turkeyriver]

One thing I found interesting. Someone asked if all the comments in favor of leaving the early muzz. season as is would have any impact. the moderator stated that he thought it was "orchestrated" and I got the impression he didn't put much weight on all the comments. Isn't that what a democracy is? A bunch of people with the same opinion getting together to influence policy? I believe our efforts are better spent trying to influence our legislators in DM than the DNR. They are the ones who answer to voters and group pressure;i.e. lobbying. We had a good discussion in Decorah after the meeting was over. When I told everyone they should contact their legislators about these issues, most were surprised that the DNR doesn't control all these policies. Most also didn't know who their representatives or senators were or how to contact them. Now they do.

 

[Fishbonker]

I got the distinct feeling that the early ML tags are gonna be a reality. Only one person (my unoffical memory) spoke for the tags ang a gizzillion of us asked for them not to be allowed. Mr. Little preached to the chior about killing more does. OneCam pointed out, and was backed up by several folks at the DSM site the DNR needs to be much more active in educating the casual (my term) hunters about killing does.

Mr. Little also kept banging on us about what we say MIGHT happen and it never does. He then went on to suggest that as soon as the doe numbers were down the seasons would be dropped, but before that he kept saying the "count isn't in yet" so how do they know there is still a need for the November and late "high power" season? Here is a prediction you can take to the bank: Once the genie is outa the bottle you'll never get it back in. I think the genie is loose.

Mr. Little repeatedly spoke of his 31 year tenure in the DNR. He has had the unenviable task of trying to keep everybody happy for 31 years.

I felt he made a very good point in that the legislature is the body that affects change and the DNR effects change. In other words, the DNR goes hat-in-hand to the legislature and says "Gee guys and gals we'ed sure like these new rules, codes, laws and more money" and the legislature says "Gee, kids, let me check with the lobbiests first becuse my unorganized constituant hunters never give a rats ass...." and the sad thing is, the unorganized constituant hunters tend to sit on their hands and do nothing as Rome burns.

Maybe Nikita had it right, we shoulda beat on the tables with our shoes.

The 'Bonker

 

[bjkpharmd]

Nikita would have threatened to let the does run rampant and reproduce unchecked to undermine the filthy capitalist money grubbing insurance lobby. Still an option.

 

[ISHEDHUNT]

I too was at last nights meeting. The Insurance guy sat directly in front of me last night, I asked him how much money they donated to the Hush program beings they were so concerned about the deer population in Iowa. His responce was that the DNR asked for $10,000 in 2004 and they donated that amount, but last year no one asked and they didn't pony up and donate anything. So much for putting thier money where their mouth is.

I do think we need to continue to send our feelings to the DNR, but our efforts need to be more concentrated toward our legislature.

Sure seemed to me the turn out was pretty weak.

Chris

 

[bowmaker]

Sorry I didn't make it to the Ottumwa meeting last night. My wife had a doctors appointment in Davenport and I couldn't get back in time. It sounds like at least some people showed up and voiced their thoughts. If they don't listen to us when they ask for our opinouns we at least tried. I wonder how many does we need to kill because by the DNR's numbers the kill this year was well over 210,000 total with the biggest majority being does. At one time it was thought that there could never be too many buffalo killed either and they didn't have insurance companies to deal with.

 

[dbltree]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Little repeatedly spoke of his 31 year tenure in the DNR.
The 'Bonker

[/ QUOTE ]
Apparantly he's hoping to get as many firearms seasons in place as possible, before he retires!

The only winners are the counties that have very few deer...that eliminates any antlerless quotas and all the special seasons.
No such luck here in the "southland". Both the dnr and the legislature will use the herd control issue against us for eternity. Niether of them, either understand or are unwilling too...grasp the fact that special seasons cannot attract hunters to a county with no access. No amount of education is going to convince NR landowners to let outsiders on thier property to harvest does...or most resident landowners for that matter.
They are unwilling to make the harvest of a doe mandatory before taking a buck...so the whole thing will just continue to slide down hill. I hate to sound so pessimestic, but after that meeting not only do I not see the light at the end of the tunnel....i don't even see the tunnel!

 

[HawkeyeHerps]

It sure sounded to me like the doe tags during early muzzle was a done deal even though almost every one of us spoke up about it. He basically said we complained about the November doe season last year and it turned out fine so just wait and see about the early muzzle doe season this year.

 

[Full Quiver]

[ QUOTE ]
there is NO access, so special seasons, more tags, etc. are simply not going to work. ...The deer herd in this area will never be under control...period!

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe that one of the biggest obstacles to increasing the doe harvest is hunting access. From what I've heard and read, the number of huntable acres is decreasing. People are buying up these lands at an ever increasing rate and an ever increasing cost! If a non-resident buys land and then has to wait a couple of years to draw a tag, isn't their land going to become a safe haven for deer. No hunting pressure there, that where I'd go if I was a deer. Iowa already ranks 41st or 42nd in total public land areas. I know that the DNR has talked about buy more land, but how are they going to do that with the high prices. They also talked about last night about how little money the DNR has. I don't ever see them making large land purchases.
I also have to agree that farmers complain about the deer numbers, but do little about them. Their willingness to grant access has decreased over the years. Does the DNR still keep the list of people willing to come out to a farmer's land and harvest does? To my knowledge, no one has ever been called on this list.
Also the insurance guy complaining of deer-car accidents...where are people moving to now? The country. They buy small acerages in the deers' habitat. What do they think is a possiblilty when they encroach on their habitat?
Anyways, I still have hope that there won't be any changes.
I would have liked to seen more people at the sites, but I think that the overall opinions were voiced well. Thank you to everyone who attended or gave a comment.
I counted 26 against any changes on only 1 for. So I hope that they are listening to our opinions.

PS The "bonkerflage" looked great on tv!

 

[PYBucks]

[ QUOTE ]
No amount of education is going to convince NR landowners to let outsiders on thier property to harvest does...or most resident landowners for that matter

[/ QUOTE ]

Dbltree, exactly what education are you talking about?

Tim

 

[ElkHunter]

Same FB rep was at Wildlife taskforce meeting yesterday,when asked why the FB hadn't done anything with the 850 hunters who signed up to help with deer management, he just studdered and stammered around with no answer. It's very easy to be anti everything and never offer any positive suggestions or ideas, except killem all.

As for Mr. Little if you are a bowhunter you'll never catch a break from him.

I too thought the turn out was very light and was really disappointed.

 

[vman]

[ QUOTE ]

Iowa already ranks 41st or 42nd in total public land areas. I know that the DNR has talked about buy more land, but how are they going to do that with the high prices.

[/ QUOTE ]


They are trying to buy a 500 ac tract in Monroe County that is adjacent to the 1000 acer unit of stephans state forest. From what i understand they dont have all of the funds yet, but are close.

 

[dbltree]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No amount of education is going to convince NR landowners to let outsiders on thier property to harvest does...or most resident landowners for that matter

[/ QUOTE ]

Dbltree, exactly what education are you talking about?

Tim

[/ QUOTE ]

There is the ongoing (and noble) thought, that educating hunters about the pros of taking antlerless deer versus smaller antlered deer, will work to help lower our deer herd and raise the quality of our antlered deer. Makes perfect sense and is obvious to most on this site...however we are a very very tiny piece of the pie.
I'm not picking on NR landowners because most resident landowners are going to do the same thing. Each may harvest a few does themselves, but only a rare few are going let John Q Public in to hunt antlerless deer enmasse.
100% of the NR landowers that I am aware of have never and will never harvest any substantial amount of antlerless deer. Their reasons for owning it are obvious and I don't blame them.
Resident hunter landowners may allow friends help them harvest a few does but rarely in substantial numbers, What's in for them? Why would they take a chance on running the bucks out of the safe haven they have created for them?
The farmer/landowners in my area for the most part simply pay no attention to any type of "education"...they don't read magazines or the internet (as far as deer hunting is concerned)
The simple fact IMO is, that education isn't working for the majority of hunters. One only has to look at the pathetic response to the new DNR proposals to see that most simply don't care.
I keep being told that education is working...well if it is then why more "special" seasons every year??

Mr. Little made it clear that he has no concern for the quality of Iowa's bucks...or for that matter any concern for bucks at all. His only concern is that we kill does. My personal feeling is that the DNR, the FB and the Ins. lobby can stick it...they have not the slightest concern for us....why should I worry about slaughtering every doe in sight...the rest of you should do what ever is right for you and your situation.

 

[loneranger]

I too attended the meeting at DesMoines. It was a bit depressing. The DNR rep as much said, we hunters are small unorganized, and cannot bribe with $$. All we can do is speak to our legislators. As far as that idea, I heard the talk show host on WHO this morning say to our legislators we,,the public,, are only "back ground noise". The interests that think deer are only pests, and in the way of their vehicles, or in the way of their profits, out number those of us who love to interact with them, and see them as a gift. I wrote on my comment sheet, I would shoot more does, if I saw more in my area. I hunted 60 hrs last Nov. and saw 4 does. I hunt SE of Ottumwa, one of those supposedly southern counties overunning with does. The same campaign went on for yrs in N. Mich, where I came from. Kill the DEER, as many as you can. I asked the local Biologist why the yr earlier he told me deer numbers were down, then the kill mania. He told me they were over powered by the higher powers. I am not down though. I am glad I voiced my opinion. You have to speak out for what you believe. I will write my legislators again too. I will manage the deer in my area the way I think is best. Not gonna depend on the "Higher Powers", to tell me what I should shoot.

 

[blake]

<font color="red">We have got to get organized my friends.</font> Without organization our ability to oppose, or support issues affecting the quality of Iowa’s deer hunting will likely fall on deaf ears with our state reps, as well as the IDNR.

 

[tineseeker]

Do your part
A County does not represent a homogeneous population of deer. There may be areas in a county where there are to many deer (In town for example) then there may be areas where there aren’t as many deer as there used to be (small timber where does are harvested regularly) Remember deer will move to safe zones where there is food and safety (those old does help educate others in the herd)

I feel the DNR does a good job at estimating deer populations within a county and have an understanding of population dynamics. As far as how many deer a particular area can support or should have is somewhat controversial. One thing is true of all populations though.. If the population gets to high Mother Nature will push back. One natural factor that tends to be directly related to population size is disease rate.. I would hate to see the majority of quality older bucks in my area get a disease and die. (This has happened in other states)
The DNR job is to manage all of our wild resources. They use us (Hunters) as a tool to do this. Some of there efforts are impeded by self absorbed uneducated legislators. (Im not saying legislators are stupid, but they should leave wild life management decisions to the people who are trained (educated) in understanding ecosystems and population management.
As far as us the lowly Hunter(s), remember we are a part of that management equation. Could you imagine if we didn’t harvest ( 200,0000 + deer a year) what the cost would be to the State and environment.
I participated in the management of the Deer heard in Coralville City this year. Over 100 deer were harvested. Iowa City pays over $400 a head to have the extra . deer removed and have spent 1000s of $$ If Coralville had not adopted the management program that they have Iowa City would need to spend 1000s more because there would be a larger % of deer emigrating from Coralville into IC.
There is a balance that needs to be met both environmentally and socially. The only way to do this is by becoming better-educated, by becoming educators and relinquishing power to those who are more educated than us. Above all else we need to work together. The state of the environment and my kid’s future depends on it.

Will opening the early muzzloader season increase the numbers of does harvested next year? If it pushes more doe harvesting bow hunters out of the woods than muzzle loader does harvested it won’t . Is the DNR making the right decision on this issue I am skeptical (One year will give them some data)

Vilsack or his wife might be able to tell us why a proposed bobcat season, dove season was not part of a new proposed change this year. (I’m sure someone educated in wildlife management advised them) Maybe they can educate us on what they have learned.

Learn, Look at the facts, Educate, Do your part. Try not to let emotions cause destructive decisions.

Have a great weekend, Those cute little Morels better lookout bc the tineseeker is shifting focus.

 

[avidhunter]

The most important thing Terry Little accomplished that entire evening, was to drive home the point that resident hunters need to be addressing the State Legislators en masse: a large, organized body - an 800 lb. gorilla that's run outta bananas, if you will. He painted a rather bleak, but accurate picture of how the world works. He who has the most bananas wins - or something like that

. So how do we become this 800 lb. gorilla? I would suggest that this site is a great place to start. I’m willing to get involved in any way shape or form necessary to secure our hunting future, as I’m sure are many of you.

The insurance and outfitter lobbyists spend much of their time in bed with our legislators on these issues. In this case I believe the only way to fight fire is with fire... only we need to control the wind and direction of the burn. The public is largely uneducated on all topics related to deer and deer hunting. Unfortunately for us, most all of the information they are getting is coming from unfounded editorials written by anti-hunters, who skew the entire debate and present little to no factual basis for their arguments.

How do we combat this? I’m open to suggestions…

 

[River1]

[ QUOTE ]
So how do we become this 800 lb. gorilla?

[/ QUOTE ]

Support the IBA and ALL other organizations who actively address these issues. I'm betting Randy could get us a list (it's a short one I bet) of who those groups are.

This site has been quite the boon to our cause. Those that appreciate this should also consider supporting IW with a PMA.

The biggest key is becoming proactive and addressing the issues instead of believing someone else will do it for us.

 

[Benny]

Same thing is happening in Wisconsin.

The snowmobile lobby is attempting to eliminate antlerless hunts in mid-December in the northern half of Wisconsin, even though the vast majority of hunting groups in Wisconsin support a mid-December anterless only hunt.

Why do the snowmobile clubs have more power in Wisconsin then the 600,000 gun deer hunters?

Simple, they are organized and are politically connected to legislative leaders.

Hunters on the other hand tend to not be organized on a statewide or national scale. Instead there are the bowhunters in one group, gun hunters in the other, muzzeloaders in another and a majority of hunters who do not belong to any group. Same thing with anglers. You have a musky group, trout group, bass group but no statwide group that says we are going to fight for fishing regardless of what fish you want or do not want.

As a whole there needs to be one powerful voice for hunters or anglers irregardless of your weapon preference or whatever club or organization you belong to.

If nothing is done you will be generally ignored and a special interest group wheather it be snowmobilers, outfitters or insurance reps will direct public policy that benefits their own interest.

That is what Mr. LIttle was referring to as a 800 pound gorilla.

Right know most hunting groups have no more weight than a 50 pound Chimpanzee because they are not organized politically at a statewide or national level. \

The overall reality of politics in todays society is that you need to have lobbyists working the legislature watching out for your own interest.