Matthewfox_45
Well-Known Member
I make him grumpy skip! Sorry about that!
IW 2026 Poll Results
- Thread starter IowaBowHunter1983
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Good stuff CW!!! Kaboom!!!!
Your Honor…. May I approach the bench to clarify?
Ok, ok….. good catch & call…. I need to far better word that….
If u have them in ur truck - no. Not an issue & I did not word that well. Double concede to Iowaqdm as well….
What I’m saying is- when you’re pulled over with night vision, spotlight & rifle….after CO gets called, sees suspicion of crime, report or seeing use of them in an act, etc…. You cannot say “I’m shooting coyotes & coons” like every poacher is doing right now with thermals. You cannot shine them into fields with a weapon!!!!!! Thermals- you can right now.
So - correct & you are spot on - right now I can drive around with NV & a spotlight. The second I shine that spotlight at game ….. yes, even a coyote or a coon, during deer season - u would be done as THAT is illegal.
The law would put thermals in the exact same category as NV & spotlights. Which, again - yes, Simple possession is not an issue nor will it be with thermals if in same class. Use in the field during deer season “I’m just shooting coyotes & coons” could never fly. thermals were added to the list like NV & spotlights - during deer season, the scumbags that are using that as their loophole out wide scale & growing - is now gone.
Touché on the call out. CW the “Hammer” & soon to be “CW, Iowa’s Leading Criminal Defense Attorney”
I am not hurting my friends IMO. If I were- by definition - I’d then be helping my friends to legalize night vision & spotlights during deer season. My friends would have: 8 months of Thermal & NV hunting for coyotes, 12 months of normal scopes and all of trapping season. I want to HURT the poachers…. I want to take away their ability to exploit a massive gap in the law - when NV & spotlights were banned- thermals were not main stream. My Friends & every hunter have been GIFTED 50 gazillion new technologies to hunt or kill in the last 20 years - dialing a few things back will be just fine. You know who isn’t “just fine”? The resource…. some major obstacles the last 5-15 years & some things we urgently need to address.
Asked several legislators & CO’s 3 things…
1) if thermals were big then- would intention of law be to include them with NV & artificial light? Answer is always “absolutely would have been added” + “need to be”.
2) are thermals & them being left out of current law being widely exploited by poachers? “ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!”
3) are we pulling over known or highly suspected poachers & lose the bust due to “just shooting coyotes & coons?” “YES!!!” Often & all over the state. They literally have to be caught in the act or find the body. Makes it so much harder vs NV & spotlights.
Problem is just gonna get worse. & for my friends that like to thermal hunt in November that are deer hunters…. When thermal poaching gets worse or they can’t catch or ticket the guys they know are doing it cause it’s so difficult - maybe rethink this position. I’d bottom line it here: states like Missouri even caught this problem & outlawed all of the use inside deer season. Giving the coyote hunters the 8 months of using them + 12 months of regular scopes. Many other states got ahead of this.
Like any issue, and I mean ANY….. as hunters…. It’s often only about us. “You’re taking away from ME”. It’s never solely about the resource & protecting it. Even when massive abuses are taking place, resource is hurt & law enforcement is asking for our help. We still say no. Anything …. We say no. Legalize flame throwers for deer season…. Guys will buy em, burn our forests down & we will go “I think we need to make flame throwers for deer hunting illegal” & the group that bought flame throwers will flip out!!! That’s being crazy but apply it to anything…. 3 buck tags on 2 acres, straight wall rifles, Drones. Or heck, legalize the use of drones with a gun “it’s my right!!!!!” Or any other thing u can think of.
We Realize it’s an issue & cut off a problem before it gets out of hand & starts hurting the resource even worse…. Some Dudes are gonna flip out. & yes, many things in these polls ARE HURTING THE RESOURCE!!!!!!!!! To some in society, it’s only about “ME”. I just strongly advocate we don’t look at it that way & look at it through “whats best for the resource!” You know…. That resource EVERYONE ON HERE knows is hurting & has been hurt by a hundred cuts. THAT RESOURCE that is hurting enough to start a 45 page thread saying essentially “those good old days are in the mirror & need a lot of help”. We all know it. If the fragile resource had a voice- it would be asking to consider them & not just “me me me”. The resource I love & love hunting ….. I want them to get that relief. Get some wins in their favor for the first time in 20 years! “ME ME ME” - we will be just fine. The resource, future, new hunter, working man & next generation needs some major help. Need For us to consider some things beyond ourselves.
I understand what you think will happen by banning thermals. But it won’t stop the poaching. Just like you think one buck will somehow get top end bucks to age 6. It won’t happen. As Muskrat24 mentioned, at our current deer numbers none of these changes will change our trajectory. We know what happened in the Amana Colonies with one buck limit. High grading caused overall decline in high scoring bucks versus just outside where the limit was the same as the rest of Iowa. That is why they went back to Iowa’s current regulations.
I know you think banning thermals may save a few poached bucks, but at what cost. All the guys I know that thermal hunt coyotes kill the most right after harvest through February. From July 1 until crops are out guys don’t even try because crops are too tall, it’s too hot and too buggy. Coyotes are most vulnerable September, October and November when the pups are inexperienced and come to calling. I know guys that kill between 100-200 coyotes annually with thermals and 95% are killed between October and February. So thinking that those guys will just shift their coyote hunting from February through summer is very misguided.
I have seen numerous bucks recently still carrying both sides and driving around last Friday night I saw a stud still carrying both antlers. If I was a poacher he would’ve been easy to take as it was still daylight and he was under 100 yards from the road. My point is if someone wants to poach they can with or without thermals. They can before, during and after deer season.
So what about the resource??? Well studies done in Iowa, Illinois and Minnesota have all found fawn predation by coyotes account from 50% - 75% of all fawn mortality. Typically fawn survival rates to 8 months in those states is around 60%. So as you know I like numbers. If Iowa has 350,000 deer after season. 3 does to 1 buck means, 262,500 does left over. If we average 1.75 fawns per doe that means we will have 459,375 fawns hit the ground come Spring. If 60% survive to 8 months that equals 275,625. So fawn mortality will equal 183,750. If coyotes account for 50-75% of those deaths. That means coyotes will account for 91,875 to 137,812 fawn deaths. Just how many deer do you think are being poached by guys with thermals??? I mean how many could it really be 500??? 1,000??? What number of poached deer do you think justifies taking away the best 4-5 months to kill coyotes with thermals? Remember you are wanting to take away the months that they are the most vulnerable and when most thermal hunters want to go after them. This issues is no different than taking away buck tags. It is not about me, me, me. It is about what is best for the resource. We don’t need to take away buck tags and we shouldn’t be considering taking away the best months to thermal hunt the number one fawn predator. Especially, when our deer population has just been decimated by EHD. That would be the most counter productive move anyone could possibly be pushing. I mean it is almost equivalent to saying let’s increase the doe quota so we can take more deer off the landscape. I personally don’t own a thermal but I am thankful that there are lots of guys out there that do. I appreciate guys shooting coyotes and raccoons with them because both populations are out of control. I would be just fine with guys using NV or artificial lights and would support legalizing them for use on coyotes and raccoons year round, as well as other furbearing animals during their seasons. As far as I am concerned, if you are managing for deer, the only good coyote is a dead one.
As with any issue like this it is not just black and white. Some think it is and may even promote it that way but in actuality it isn’t. Changes like these have real consequences. You “might” save a few poached bucks but ultimately loose ten of thousands of fawns in exchange for those few bucks. I think we need to leave thermal’s alone. If anything we should be introducing legislation to legalize NV and artificial lights for coyotes and raccoons year round and furbearing animals during their season.
A neighbor to a farm I use to own in one of the most highly managed areas of Monroe county also owns land in the Amana colonies, we joked about why he would come down there to hunt because he killed way bigger bucks in the colonies. Also that area of Monroe county and where my current farm is in Decatur county have extremely high deer numbers and yet there are very few deer north of 170, same area 15-20 years ago consistently produced multiple 200s every year and deer numbers were drastically lower in that area back then. Difference nowadays is almost every farm in that area is now a deer farm and with technology and better weapons the deer virtually don’t stand a chance, bow season can still be a challenge but gun season is basically deer assassinations, not much hunting to it, 100% going to one buck would have that area producing giants again.My point is that in your area population might make the biggest difference but in other areas it will do absolutely nothing to help trophy quality. Everyone looks at this through their own lens and there truly is not one specific thing that’s gonna fix it.
Bucksnbears
Well-Known Member
I'm not real 【 knowledge up】 on thermal scopes but do they not all have a " record" feature?
Perhaps somehow/ someway make it a law that t hey HAVE to have this feature and be used at all times while in use?
Killing a couple hundred coyotes outweighs a couple big bucks poached overall.
Just guessing but I'd bet there are WAY more deer killed over feed piles, 5 minute's after/ before legal time, then with thermals.
Personally, I don't think poaching with thermals is a big issue.
Perhaps somehow/ someway make it a law that t hey HAVE to have this feature and be used at all times while in use?
Killing a couple hundred coyotes outweighs a couple big bucks poached overall.
Just guessing but I'd bet there are WAY more deer killed over feed piles, 5 minute's after/ before legal time, then with thermals.
Personally, I don't think poaching with thermals is a big issue.
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Not all thermals have the ability to record. I also agree with you, I don’t think poaching with thermals is a big issue. Some neighborhoods maybe. (But those neighborhoods are also heavily patrolled and would be pretty risky). However, as a whole across Iowa’s landscape…no way. You’d hear about it and guys would be getting caught. If they shot and left them lay you’d hear about it. If they shot them and tried to retrieve the buck good chance they’d get caught and you’d hear about that. I haven’t heard of either situation.
Game warden told me of 15 that were shot from the road last year and head hacked in a premo neighborhood right next to his house! Nobody is out patrolling at 2 am and cameras cover very little even if you run a ton of them. Would actually be extremely hard to catch someone if they just randomly killed deer in different areas, they get caught when they keep coming back to same places. Even then it’s difficult, he never caught those guys and he tried the whole season.
tall@wide
PMA Member
Putting a camera on the road helps identify vehicles that come back day after day. Then at least the warden can investigate if a deer gets shot and left minus the rack..Still need a tag number though. It’s amazing just how many bad apples and poachers are out there!
I’ll do a rare & quick ME ME ME argument …. I’ll give a quick example. Anectodal. In the last 10 years the best busts we’ve had were one with over 100 bucks & the next was 47. In 10 years, I’ll bet u we have dealt with 50-75 poachers easy. Probably half are from out of state. Thermals on crossbows. No lights on driving down road- suppressed thermal rifles or just your rifle out the window. On & on. Thermal & suppressed is by far most common now. In 10 years we have probably had 500-1000 bucks poached in a “15 square mile area”. I’ve seen at least a dozen bucks get poached in this 10 years (sitting & watching, hunting & seeing it, following at distance. You name it). This is not unique to my area. This is going on all over With the same accounts from countless guys I know in “decent to good areas”.
I’ll put it to you guys this way…. I see far more poachers or “extremely suspicious” (like after u start finding poached deer & suspect vehicles) activity than I do coyote hunters. Like, 10 to 1. I know every around in multiple counties that coyote hunts my areas. It’s not a big # of guys.
BTW- I am NOT saying above or any of this is justification to do XYZ- this is for perspective only!!!
For last 5-10 years - no one traps & most guys, if they take the time, have to pay someone to trap coyotes or find the few that will. Finding hunters is becoming easier but I still will guess that 90% of farms do not get thermal hunted during deer season: due to 1) lack of guys taking time to do it & 2) landowners not allowing it during deer season.
Here’s a truth that will rub a few the wrong way but I’ll still say it…. Iowa’s deer have HUGE value. The deer economy is $180m on a basic level. More like $1B on a realistic level. Each year. Everyone is after our big deer. Mostly legitimately of course, sometimes not. Coyotes & coons on the other hand are a Net negative ….. fur prices have tanked trapping activities. MOST the guys doing it are purely doing it for fun & farmers & hunters far more frequently killing for population control, crop damage, predation on all other animals, etc. I beg people to trap or thermal hunt.
Why I do both myself now. I have one reliable group that will thermal hunt … that is reading this right now!!! that strongly disagrees with me!!!!…. **BTW - these friends are all Kamala Harris voters & have been at every ICE protest for the last 2 months so not sure how they get all this time to coyote hunt between the protesting & their gender affirming surgeries
& of course, there’s zero issues there with them killing coyotes. They do it the right way & no chance of shady stuff. For each group I know like that, I probably hear or know of way more up to shady stuff. In the fall. It’s not even close. My point, unproven anecdotal POV…. Any neighborhood you really pay close attention I’ve been in or are in or have good smart buddies in…. There’s WAY more poaching than coyote & coon hunters in the FALL. Not even close. Some might disagree & I can’t prove them wrong other than what I know & see all over the place. I personally feel like the poaching that is getting by - even just the loophole part of it- far outweighs the # of guys “coyote & coon hunting at night in November”.
Now that I’ve offended or stressed some, truly do mean this…. WHAT to do???? I don’t have all the answers. Clearly. I am a coyote hunting NOVICE at best. I do know that I listen to all sides, coyote guys, coon, CO’s, land owners, etc. There is a real problem. CO’s & landowners want more enforcement tools & loopholes removed. From their perspective- very valid. You may disagree but their POV has some merits. Coyote guys (though I believe are far less in # than we realize) don’t want a thing changed, a portion of them. Ok…. Fair enough & I understand.
Perhaps we do nothing. & the poaching with thermals/suppressed is gonna get worse…. We have to acknowledge that. It’s a real frigin problem right now & it’s going on across the state in decent deer areas. Add more guys buying more thermal drones & thermals every year. There’s nothing we can adjust???? & im open minded here!!!!! Massive fines, funding sting operations. I guess we need robo-bucks that have heat in them now. Maybe we do NOTHING. & yes, hunters are taking this into their own hands…. Drive anywhere across the state in good areas…. What do you see EVERYWHERE???? Road screens like miscantheus or trees or native grasses. You name it. Thousands of farms have done this & will continue. Which is great. Why?????? Cause this poaching stuff is bad (yes, has always been bad, agree) & often getting worse.
End of the world? NOPE. Like anything…. If nothing changes…. Folks will figure some things out- screen roads, patrol, get stings done, cameras on roads, etc.
BOTTOM LINE….. I’d take any constructive feedback on how to reduce these problems & give law enforcement some better tools at dealing with it. Whatever that might be. In reality- we will probably get a round table or zoom call with coyote & coon groups, deer hunters, landowners, CO’s, etc to discuss this to see if there’s some common sense solutions here we all can get behind.
*SORRY on focusing on ONE issue too…. There’s a whole lot of other issues & I don’t want this to be one issue. I truly believe we have a good “dozen” issues that need to or can be addressed & many of them are bigger issues than this. The poll sure indicates that as well. MARKF post on “high deer #’s with dwindling quality & age class” … THAT^^^ needs some more thought & discussion!!!!!!
I’ll put it to you guys this way…. I see far more poachers or “extremely suspicious” (like after u start finding poached deer & suspect vehicles) activity than I do coyote hunters. Like, 10 to 1. I know every around in multiple counties that coyote hunts my areas. It’s not a big # of guys.
BTW- I am NOT saying above or any of this is justification to do XYZ- this is for perspective only!!!
For last 5-10 years - no one traps & most guys, if they take the time, have to pay someone to trap coyotes or find the few that will. Finding hunters is becoming easier but I still will guess that 90% of farms do not get thermal hunted during deer season: due to 1) lack of guys taking time to do it & 2) landowners not allowing it during deer season.
Here’s a truth that will rub a few the wrong way but I’ll still say it…. Iowa’s deer have HUGE value. The deer economy is $180m on a basic level. More like $1B on a realistic level. Each year. Everyone is after our big deer. Mostly legitimately of course, sometimes not. Coyotes & coons on the other hand are a Net negative ….. fur prices have tanked trapping activities. MOST the guys doing it are purely doing it for fun & farmers & hunters far more frequently killing for population control, crop damage, predation on all other animals, etc. I beg people to trap or thermal hunt.
Why I do both myself now. I have one reliable group that will thermal hunt … that is reading this right now!!! that strongly disagrees with me!!!!…. **BTW - these friends are all Kamala Harris voters & have been at every ICE protest for the last 2 months so not sure how they get all this time to coyote hunt between the protesting & their gender affirming surgeries
& of course, there’s zero issues there with them killing coyotes. They do it the right way & no chance of shady stuff. For each group I know like that, I probably hear or know of way more up to shady stuff. In the fall. It’s not even close. My point, unproven anecdotal POV…. Any neighborhood you really pay close attention I’ve been in or are in or have good smart buddies in…. There’s WAY more poaching than coyote & coon hunters in the FALL. Not even close. Some might disagree & I can’t prove them wrong other than what I know & see all over the place. I personally feel like the poaching that is getting by - even just the loophole part of it- far outweighs the # of guys “coyote & coon hunting at night in November”.
Now that I’ve offended or stressed some, truly do mean this…. WHAT to do???? I don’t have all the answers. Clearly. I am a coyote hunting NOVICE at best. I do know that I listen to all sides, coyote guys, coon, CO’s, land owners, etc. There is a real problem. CO’s & landowners want more enforcement tools & loopholes removed. From their perspective- very valid. You may disagree but their POV has some merits. Coyote guys (though I believe are far less in # than we realize) don’t want a thing changed, a portion of them. Ok…. Fair enough & I understand.
Perhaps we do nothing. & the poaching with thermals/suppressed is gonna get worse…. We have to acknowledge that. It’s a real frigin problem right now & it’s going on across the state in decent deer areas. Add more guys buying more thermal drones & thermals every year. There’s nothing we can adjust???? & im open minded here!!!!! Massive fines, funding sting operations. I guess we need robo-bucks that have heat in them now. Maybe we do NOTHING. & yes, hunters are taking this into their own hands…. Drive anywhere across the state in good areas…. What do you see EVERYWHERE???? Road screens like miscantheus or trees or native grasses. You name it. Thousands of farms have done this & will continue. Which is great. Why?????? Cause this poaching stuff is bad (yes, has always been bad, agree) & often getting worse.
End of the world? NOPE. Like anything…. If nothing changes…. Folks will figure some things out- screen roads, patrol, get stings done, cameras on roads, etc.
BOTTOM LINE….. I’d take any constructive feedback on how to reduce these problems & give law enforcement some better tools at dealing with it. Whatever that might be. In reality- we will probably get a round table or zoom call with coyote & coon groups, deer hunters, landowners, CO’s, etc to discuss this to see if there’s some common sense solutions here we all can get behind.
*SORRY on focusing on ONE issue too…. There’s a whole lot of other issues & I don’t want this to be one issue. I truly believe we have a good “dozen” issues that need to or can be addressed & many of them are bigger issues than this. The poll sure indicates that as well. MARKF post on “high deer #’s with dwindling quality & age class” … THAT^^^ needs some more thought & discussion!!!!!!
booneriverbucks
PMA Member
The thermal question is fairly obvious.. I’m not weighing in again on whether they should or should not be banned in general but the current law was most definitely made to prohibit similar tech.. they probably could clear this up without passing a new bill if they really wanted to just by “clarifying” old legislation like they did to get rid of non resident party hunting. Does anybody really believe they banned night vision/spotlights/IR but didn’t intend to ban thermal? Not a scientist but thermal is artificial light and a form of IR if u want to get technical. Enforcement is a whole other can of worms. The lines between scouting/hunting/recovery are going to continue to get blurred as tech continues to advance. Making enforceable laws will be tough
booneriverbucks
PMA Member
Yep.. Unfortunately not much can change overnight very easily. Sometimes defense is best. Preventing bad bills is still a win! A HUGE win most of the time. When good ideas are not completely thought out and support isn’t quite what we thought good people end up getting embarrassed and we could lose on bigger issues because of that. It’s a good thing laws are hard to change sometimes.
Preventing new bills is WAY WAY more important than passing anything new. In general we have it good with hunting regs. Very good!
Matthewfox_45
Well-Known Member
Random thought, What about using a thermal scanner to help recover a deer?
abell3
Well-Known Member
You can't compare data from 5-10 years ago to todays data and say " since harvest #'s aren't up that means cell cams don't make us more efficient hunters. The population #'s from 2010 up to 2026 are completely different.
Here's a point ill make and maybe it'll make sense.. maybe it won't. If you look at the glory days of hunting. I think we all agree 2007-2012 we really good years. My thought is in 2005 if hunters could get cell cameras as affordable and conveniently as they can today I don't think we all sit back today and say "2008 was the glory days". Meaning all the giants killed from 2007-2012 wouldn't have existed because they could have got killed when they were a big 4 year old.
Kind of sperate but think back to 2008 timeframe.. I wonder of all those big big deer running around the state, how old some of them were.. How many don't exist today because technology doesn't let them?
Even if we can get the population back up that is still not stopping all the new technology from killing big up and comers. I hate to just keep saying this over and over but it's not just simply getting the population back up. When temps got frigid this winter I have over 50 deer in plot. Mostly does to further make the point on how-to grow population. With over 50 deer in my plot my neighbor still killed the 160's 4 year old I was babying. We need to grow the population AND make it harder to kill mature bucks. Make it harder to kill any deer for that matter.
booneriverbucks
PMA Member
Not too different than a flashlight to me.. 20 years ago everybody would have thought it was ridiculous to jump in a plane and look for a wounded deer and then recover it and say “you got it” and people would consider it legal/legit. It didn’t happen.. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE thought that was acceptable. BTW thermal imaging has been in use with planes for a LONG TIME! Nobody did it!! We all knew that wasn’t legal!! Huge difference between walking around searching for wounded/dead game with enhanced lighting and scouting an entire area with an aircraft. They are not even close to the same! Yoder/Deer Drone Recovery can complain online and in all his ads as much as he wants. Dude is a con-man trying to blur the lines of scouting/hunting/recovery all for his own personal gain! Have you ever seen something about drones where they aren’t trying to sell you something? The old joke is the the guys who made the most money during the gold rush were the guys who sold the shovels.. why give more money to the salesman at the expense of ruining hunting? Where does the line between scouting/hunting/recovery begin and end?? Does it start at the trigger pull and end at the shot??.. nobody should be buying into this!
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Bucksnbears
Well-Known Member
Bout 25 years ago, I shot at a buck during our muzzy season.
I missed, (i think)? That spring, I found him half buried in ice on a small river.
Icut the head off. He was a huge PERFECT 6X6.
I had know idea the big racks were worth $$.
Anywhoo, I don't recall how/ why but a guy from Missouri offered me 2000:00 $ for it. Gross was 196, net 192. I snapped that up big time!.
He drove to northern MN to buy it.
I could not fathom someone spending that kind of $$ for a set of Antlers.
Wasn't long after I started reading in magazines about people buying Antlers.
Question, with the huge amount of cams out there now, I'm sure not many huge bucks can live without (someone) getting a picture of it. So, what would a poacher do with a set they poached?
Would be kinda hard to sell/ Bragg about it nowdays with everything posted on social media.?
Edited to add: gotta admit, the thought DID cross my mind back then how easy it would be to turn a few buck$. We had quite a few big bucks back then and I knew where to find them. Very rural areas.
Glad I never once followed up on that desire to make easy $$
I missed, (i think)? That spring, I found him half buried in ice on a small river.
Icut the head off. He was a huge PERFECT 6X6.
I had know idea the big racks were worth $$.
Anywhoo, I don't recall how/ why but a guy from Missouri offered me 2000:00 $ for it. Gross was 196, net 192. I snapped that up big time!.
He drove to northern MN to buy it.
I could not fathom someone spending that kind of $$ for a set of Antlers.
Wasn't long after I started reading in magazines about people buying Antlers.
Question, with the huge amount of cams out there now, I'm sure not many huge bucks can live without (someone) getting a picture of it. So, what would a poacher do with a set they poached?
Would be kinda hard to sell/ Bragg about it nowdays with everything posted on social media.?
Edited to add: gotta admit, the thought DID cross my mind back then how easy it would be to turn a few buck$. We had quite a few big bucks back then and I knew where to find them. Very rural areas.
Glad I never once followed up on that desire to make easy $$
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Talked to someone higher up in enforcement today on the thermal & poaching issue- I asked for more feedback. Good comment …. “The thermals & poaching are absolutely the worst in month of Nov & that’s when the few CO’s are spread thin……. A start or a compromise….. no thermals or NV in November. Or put 1 CO in every county”. Both are probably needed. 1 month - when most the issues happen - seems fairly reasonable to me. Or Nov 1 to Dec 15. Getting a lot of feedback from all sides here.
CurtisWalker
Well-Known Member
I’ve been out plenty been catching lots of fish.
Next question, why does poaching just end on January 10th? Bucks still have antlers so why would it be okay to hunt with thermals on January 11th but not Jan 10th?
Next question, why does poaching just end on January 10th? Bucks still have antlers so why would it be okay to hunt with thermals on January 11th but not Jan 10th?
seven twenty
PMA Member
It works, I can’t see where it specifically says it’s not allowed. It would be very questionable after hours but during the day it shouldn’t be an issue. We are talking “recovery” only though, I don’t think they should be allowed while actively deer hunting.
Daver
PMA Member
Random FWIW factoid...I recently went on a guided elk hunt in New Mexico and after I shot my elk at very near last light one day we took up the track after waiting for I dunno, 20 minutes or so. Now, it is fairly dark. We were on good blood and I was paying more attention to the blood trail and trying to dodge overhead branches, etc, when the guide whips his "binoculars" up and says, "Animal". Huh? Sure enough, it was my elk...probably 40-50 yards ahead of us.
I didn't realize he was using a thermal to "track" the beast, but sure enough he was. Huh? I didn't think much about it at the time, but later I started to wonder a little about the impact of technology, etc. We would have found the beast moments later via the regular blood trail, but...I think it would be fair to say that it was found via a thermal.
Don't hate me!
Matthewfox_45
Well-Known Member
I used mine on a late season track job. Shot a buck, went back and got lights and thermal scanner. Followed an excellent blood trail and bumped the deer. Should’ve been using the scanner…brought the scanner up and he looked in rough shape. Backed out and found him the next morning. I was hoping to use it to find blood, but too much stuff holds heat in the woods.Random FWIW factoid...I recently went on a guided elk hunt in New Mexico and after I shot my elk at very near last light one day we took up the track after waiting for I dunno, 20 minutes or so. Now, it is fairly dark. We were on good blood and I was paying more attention to the blood trail and trying to dodge overhead branches, etc, when the guide whips his "binoculars" up and says, "Animal". Huh? Sure enough, it was my elk...probably 40-50 yards ahead of us.
I didn't realize he was using a thermal to "track" the beast, but sure enough he was. Huh? I didn't think much about it at the time, but later I started to wonder a little about the impact of technology, etc. We would have found the beast moments later via the regular blood trail, but...I think it would be fair to say that it was found via a thermal.
Don't hate me!
From an academic pov or from the outside - it doesn’t. When u live in this world 24/7 u grasp the reality of the situation- then u understand when it stops. The VAST majority of deer poaching happens in November. Maybe up to mid December.
You can get crime stats on any topic btw or get feedback from law on when things are the worse. Like when your family crossed the border illegally to come here- you did it during the dry season to get across the river easily.
Nov is when MOST the lunatics plan their “hunting trips” (poaching adventures) or get the bug to do it. When we busted the meth head with 47 bucks….. started late October & we busted him around thanksgiving. Even meth heads know when to go & when bucks are visible all over. Poaching in general…. When u hear rifle shots after dark, when u start finding headless deer in fields, when CO’s are being called on poaching - it’s much like a bell curve - peaking in early/mid November. Poachers do slow down. Amount of calls to CO’s do slow down.
Case in point…. 2 weeks ago or even today- bucks have racks…. How much poaching is going on or how many calls are the CO’s getting?????? Close to zero.
Come on CW. You can do better than this!!! I know you have common sense. The poaching in all variety of cases & when CO’s are bombarded with it: Nov 1 to Dec 15 (roughly). CW- this is COMPROMISE too. Which one side doesn’t ever seem willing to do. The folks that want thermals gone, want it gone during all of deer season. When adults get in the room & all sides discuss this who want the same goals- less poaching & more tools for law enforcement that they request…. U work through these. Instead of 4 months u don’t use thermals (and 8 months you do) …. Maybe it’s 1 month you don’t & 11 months you do. When CO’s are also overloaded in November - we have to consider their needs. Not just ME ME ME. I’m listening to their requests & absolutely - all sides are listening to the thermal guys POV. Maybe look at things through their POV & look at the facts of them trying to do their jobs. even chew on when you think most the poaching is going on & when they need the most tools & relief on busting scumbags. If at the end of the day guys couldn’t listen to all sides & make some common sense adjustments, especially if they are minor…. Don’t expect the opposition to compromise at all when they want the scumbaggery things in their favor. & when the deer exploiters like crossbow companies or outfitters or “kill em all” groups go after us…. Make no mistake …. This won’t be a thoughtful compromising fight- thank goodness we have folks with backbone that won’t let any of that crap get through.