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moose270
Guest
lol the only way the outdoors will ever chap me in anyway
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horst
Guest
well for all you guys who want to shoot a mountain lion try to remember to kill it.A wounded lions gonna be a lot bigger problem than one thats just trying to sneak outta the way.Personally I think it would be much safer to call the DNR than to risk having a gut shot lion running around,especailly in a populated area as that seems to be what your all trying avoid by shooting them right?Keeping them away from children and such.You wouldnt just want to shoot one to say you shot one right?
Californias problem cant even be compared to Iowas.
1- they have way more mountain lions than were ever gonna have in this state.
2-they banned hunting them, this is what happens when you take the power away from the DNR and let politicians run the show.Same thing here but with the DNR wanting them protected and the politicians deciding against it.
3-The number of people building homes in what is already mountain lion range in California far exceeds the number of people in rural Iowa.Most of the attacks thier come from people living in what was once hunting range of these lions.the cats really have no range here and they are afraid of humans, with so few lions in our state the odds are theyll run away instead of fighting when they come in contact with us.They have a whole state to settle in and have no reason to protect a certain range where lions in California are heavily populated and do have their own ranges to hunt in.
So with the cats in California being pushed into smaller and smaller areas, people spreading out into bigger and bigger area, hunting being banned with no way to control the growing poulation of cats, and the DNR in that state not being able to do anything about it, lion Vs people contact out theres gonna continue to grow.But is it really the cats fault?Has to be, people are never at fault in these situations are they?
![893soapbox-thumb[1].gif](http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/893soapbox-thumb[1].gif)
Californias problem cant even be compared to Iowas.
1- they have way more mountain lions than were ever gonna have in this state.
2-they banned hunting them, this is what happens when you take the power away from the DNR and let politicians run the show.Same thing here but with the DNR wanting them protected and the politicians deciding against it.
3-The number of people building homes in what is already mountain lion range in California far exceeds the number of people in rural Iowa.Most of the attacks thier come from people living in what was once hunting range of these lions.the cats really have no range here and they are afraid of humans, with so few lions in our state the odds are theyll run away instead of fighting when they come in contact with us.They have a whole state to settle in and have no reason to protect a certain range where lions in California are heavily populated and do have their own ranges to hunt in.
So with the cats in California being pushed into smaller and smaller areas, people spreading out into bigger and bigger area, hunting being banned with no way to control the growing poulation of cats, and the DNR in that state not being able to do anything about it, lion Vs people contact out theres gonna continue to grow.But is it really the cats fault?Has to be, people are never at fault in these situations are they?
Shedhuntermd
PMA Member
Good post horst
all4s
Life Member
I'm with Stalker53 on this one, it would make a cool mount for my den. I don't think man or animal is at falt, we are who we are... Hunters. I also think if they were hunted they would be more afraid of humans than if they were not hunted.
I put some 8 shot in the neibors dog a few years back for chasing calves. Only wonded him but he is now afraid of this human and don't come over anymore.
I'm not compairing cats and dogs, just think I might get the same reaction from a mountian lion.
Hunt on All4s
I put some 8 shot in the neibors dog a few years back for chasing calves. Only wonded him but he is now afraid of this human and don't come over anymore.
I'm not compairing cats and dogs, just think I might get the same reaction from a mountian lion.
Hunt on All4s
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firedog
Guest
What is this "lol" I keep seeing? Should I know what this means? Somebody fill me in!
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GunnerJon
Guest
Jeff5611......lol="laugh out loud"
First of all, these big cats once roamed Iowa and were quite plentiful. Pioneer records account for that. Second of all, I think all of God's creatures have their place on this planet, but one must take a step back and look at Iowa's situation. Iowa is a farming state and has a farm house or more on every section and a small town every dozen miles or so. There really aren't very many vast wilderness areas that you would consider "natural" for a big predator like the mountain lion. And that is exactly what they are....a large predator. Except for pre-settlement and settlement times, Iowans have never had to deal with a predator that is potentially dangerous to us. Yes, it would be an awesome experience to see a lion in Iowa, but you have to realize what these cats are. They are 100 pound eating machines, and work on opportunities that present themselves. Sure, they can go ahead and eat some deer if they want.....I think we all agree that they wouldn't hurt the population too much here anyway! But once they start taking a calf here and there the story changes.
In my opinion the whole story boils down to this: Iowa was once a truly "wild" place.....those times are long gone and Iowa is now much too populated and farmed for any large, and potentially dangerous predators.
First of all, these big cats once roamed Iowa and were quite plentiful. Pioneer records account for that. Second of all, I think all of God's creatures have their place on this planet, but one must take a step back and look at Iowa's situation. Iowa is a farming state and has a farm house or more on every section and a small town every dozen miles or so. There really aren't very many vast wilderness areas that you would consider "natural" for a big predator like the mountain lion. And that is exactly what they are....a large predator. Except for pre-settlement and settlement times, Iowans have never had to deal with a predator that is potentially dangerous to us. Yes, it would be an awesome experience to see a lion in Iowa, but you have to realize what these cats are. They are 100 pound eating machines, and work on opportunities that present themselves. Sure, they can go ahead and eat some deer if they want.....I think we all agree that they wouldn't hurt the population too much here anyway! But once they start taking a calf here and there the story changes.
In my opinion the whole story boils down to this: Iowa was once a truly "wild" place.....those times are long gone and Iowa is now much too populated and farmed for any large, and potentially dangerous predators.
alaskanwhtail
New Member
try to hunt these, you'll never exceed. unless trapped or by hounds. these animals are so elusive. the number of cats in iowa are far less than california, and the chances of seeing one or getting attacked are like getting struck by lighting twice in one day in iowa, keep hunting them. it was meant to be if there are no more cats something else will move in, all part of the food chain. hopefully not diesease
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tineseeker
Guest
Good points GunnerJon There may not be room in this state for many of these cats. If they target farmers live stock they should be eliminated if they show no fear of people they should be eliminated. Farmers should be reimbursed for livestock killed by dogs, cats, or bears and be given top dollar for that loss (I realize this rarely happens). I still think there might still be a little room in this state fore a few cats. For those of you that fear the few wild places and wild animals we have left. Maybe you should move into town and stay out of the country (Lions and tigers and Bears oh my!) Catch a movie, go to the mall. People are far more dangerous than the few large predators we have left. When my daughter is big enough to ride a bicycle I would Fear a drunk driver taking her out more than a big cat, even if I lived in California. I don't believe there are any NARROW MINDED bunny huggers that frequent this site, but maybe a few people at the other end of the spectrum.
The human population continues to grow. With out a healthy respect for Mother Nature I fear she will be our undoing. Look how many things have changed in the last 200 years. How will this state/ world change in the next 200. The NUBER ONE cause of habitat destruction and species destruction is people. There will always be a FEW animals that adapt well to human disturbance (Deer, Coyotes, Asian Beetles) But 10 times that number will fall. God put us here to be caretakers of this world, not destroyers. As long as I can I will (sustainably) harvest food the runs and grows free. I hate to see the day when I would have to pay to do this because there are not enough public wild areas left.
A healthy debate is a learning experience for all. I love this site. Thanks for stirring the pot bukket!
The human population continues to grow. With out a healthy respect for Mother Nature I fear she will be our undoing. Look how many things have changed in the last 200 years. How will this state/ world change in the next 200. The NUBER ONE cause of habitat destruction and species destruction is people. There will always be a FEW animals that adapt well to human disturbance (Deer, Coyotes, Asian Beetles) But 10 times that number will fall. God put us here to be caretakers of this world, not destroyers. As long as I can I will (sustainably) harvest food the runs and grows free. I hate to see the day when I would have to pay to do this because there are not enough public wild areas left.
A healthy debate is a learning experience for all. I love this site. Thanks for stirring the pot bukket!
Shedhuntermd
PMA Member
Well said Tineseeker!
I bet you are a great teacher
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moose270
Guest
moose
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hawkeyefan
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]Why would you let one walk away if you had an opportunity to get rid of it. If the population of these animals grows in this state we will have a significant problem. I'm guessing that's why the DNR has deemed it fine to exterminate them.
[/ QUOTE ]
First of all, I wouldn't kill any large game animal just to get rid of it, that's totally unethical to me.
Second of all, I don't think the IDNR has "deemed" anything. Don't you actually have to have a population of a species in your state before you can actually design a hunting season around it? Black bears have been traveling in and out of Northern IA for God knows how long, yet I've never heard the DNR "deem" it ok to exterminate them.
Third and lastly, who the heck is "bub"?
CRITR
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing you'd change your tune on the "ethics" of killing a predator like this if your child was killed by one while playing in a wooded park area. Maybe not though....no telling with some people.
[/ QUOTE ]Why would you let one walk away if you had an opportunity to get rid of it. If the population of these animals grows in this state we will have a significant problem. I'm guessing that's why the DNR has deemed it fine to exterminate them.
[/ QUOTE ]
First of all, I wouldn't kill any large game animal just to get rid of it, that's totally unethical to me.
Second of all, I don't think the IDNR has "deemed" anything. Don't you actually have to have a population of a species in your state before you can actually design a hunting season around it? Black bears have been traveling in and out of Northern IA for God knows how long, yet I've never heard the DNR "deem" it ok to exterminate them.
Third and lastly, who the heck is "bub"?
CRITR
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing you'd change your tune on the "ethics" of killing a predator like this if your child was killed by one while playing in a wooded park area. Maybe not though....no telling with some people.
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hawkeyefan
Guest
Endangered species in Iowa
Fresh from the Iowa DNR site. Now if the DNR is so bent on saving these poor animals, how come the only reference to lions is the Dwarf Dande"lion" on their site.....
Gonna have to play the B.S. card on that whole DNR trying to protect the "native" Iowa mountain lion statement....
Fresh from the Iowa DNR site. Now if the DNR is so bent on saving these poor animals, how come the only reference to lions is the Dwarf Dande"lion" on their site.....
Gonna have to play the B.S. card on that whole DNR trying to protect the "native" Iowa mountain lion statement....
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Kat
Guest
My kind has always been persecuted...
Seriously, I've thought about this over the last few days. I would love to see one in the woods someday, but I also have no fear. If one was somewhat close to my house/barn/animals I think I would shoot a warning shot or two and hope that together with the dogs it would instill enough fear in it to keep away. This is also assuming I could keep my animals inside at night. If it was threatening, then of course thats a different story. I agree that dogs, especially when they run in packs, are a much greater threat to livestock. Good debate guys. Horst and Tineseeker...very well said.
Seriously, I've thought about this over the last few days. I would love to see one in the woods someday, but I also have no fear. If one was somewhat close to my house/barn/animals I think I would shoot a warning shot or two and hope that together with the dogs it would instill enough fear in it to keep away. This is also assuming I could keep my animals inside at night. If it was threatening, then of course thats a different story. I agree that dogs, especially when they run in packs, are a much greater threat to livestock. Good debate guys. Horst and Tineseeker...very well said.
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hawkeyefan
Guest
All I have to say on this is that if the DNR gives this animal protected status in this state, within a few short years they will reverse that decision and be offering a bounty for every cat killed. This state's habitat cannot support a predator of this size. Any outdoorsman can see that...
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tineseeker
Guest
JUST TO PUT THINGS INTO PERSPECTIVE!!!!
HUMAN ATTACKS: Mountain lion attacks on humans are rare. A scientific review of records on attacks by cougars on humans in the United States and Canada from 1890 through 1990 indicated there were 53 cougar attacks on humans during this period nine attacks resulting in 10 human deaths, and 44 non-fatal attacks.
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/lion/outdoor.lion.html
California population 32,66,550people (1998estamate)
158,869 square Miles
206people/sq mi
Iowa population 2,862,447 (1998 estamate)
2,862,447 square Miles
51 people/sq mi
Last year there were over 42,000 officially reported deer vehicle collisions in Wisconsin. A recent study puts the number of collisions as high as 88,000 in 1998. In 1999, these accidents resulted in three deaths and more than 800 injuries. About 40 percent of those accidents occurred in October and November, when deer are most active.
Deer/vehicle collisions also cost the auto insurance industry about $2,000 per comprehensive claim, according to the Wisconsin Insurance Alliance (WIA).
WIA reports that five cents of every auto insurance premium dollar goes to pay for the direct insured costs of deer/auto collisions. Research suggests that the total direct costs of deer/vehicle collisions were between $21-$43 per licensed Wisconsin driver in 1998.
http://www.wisinsal.org/WIA_PR12_deercrash.htm
Using the safety argument /$ argument it seems there is no room in this state for deer either. Should we get rid of ALL deer ? They are far more dangerous than mountain lions! Your fears are misplaced
Knowledge is a powerful tool. Emotions can cloud the mind.
HUMAN ATTACKS: Mountain lion attacks on humans are rare. A scientific review of records on attacks by cougars on humans in the United States and Canada from 1890 through 1990 indicated there were 53 cougar attacks on humans during this period nine attacks resulting in 10 human deaths, and 44 non-fatal attacks.
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/lion/outdoor.lion.html
California population 32,66,550people (1998estamate)
158,869 square Miles
206people/sq mi
Iowa population 2,862,447 (1998 estamate)
2,862,447 square Miles
51 people/sq mi
Last year there were over 42,000 officially reported deer vehicle collisions in Wisconsin. A recent study puts the number of collisions as high as 88,000 in 1998. In 1999, these accidents resulted in three deaths and more than 800 injuries. About 40 percent of those accidents occurred in October and November, when deer are most active.
Deer/vehicle collisions also cost the auto insurance industry about $2,000 per comprehensive claim, according to the Wisconsin Insurance Alliance (WIA).
WIA reports that five cents of every auto insurance premium dollar goes to pay for the direct insured costs of deer/auto collisions. Research suggests that the total direct costs of deer/vehicle collisions were between $21-$43 per licensed Wisconsin driver in 1998.
http://www.wisinsal.org/WIA_PR12_deercrash.htm
Using the safety argument /$ argument it seems there is no room in this state for deer either. Should we get rid of ALL deer ? They are far more dangerous than mountain lions! Your fears are misplaced
Knowledge is a powerful tool. Emotions can cloud the mind.
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hawkeyefan
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
Your fears are misplaced
Knowledge is a powerful tool. Emotions can cloud the mind.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fear has nothing to do with my comments. It's called common sense. Deer are not predators. Your comparison is apples and oranges. I do agree with you that knowledge is power though. Comparing California and Iowa is pretty ridiculous as well. Have you ever been to California? I'm guessing you haven't if you are comparing it's terrain to Iowas. At least that's what you are suggesting by comparing size and population. You also aren't taking in to account the fact that Iowa is an agricultural state (lot's of livestock producers) and also has a tremendous whitetail population which is a primary food source for this animal. The chance for mountain lions to become prolific here is much greater than in California if they are left unchecked. Your argument doesn't hold water but we can agree to disagree here. Thanks for the Wisconsin statistics too but we're talking about Iowa aren't we? We'll see what happens as time is the true test.
![893USA1-thumb[1].gif](http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/893USA1-thumb[1].gif)
Also as an fyi....cougars and mountain lions are two different animals. But you probably knew that.
Your fears are misplaced
Knowledge is a powerful tool. Emotions can cloud the mind.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fear has nothing to do with my comments. It's called common sense. Deer are not predators. Your comparison is apples and oranges. I do agree with you that knowledge is power though. Comparing California and Iowa is pretty ridiculous as well. Have you ever been to California? I'm guessing you haven't if you are comparing it's terrain to Iowas. At least that's what you are suggesting by comparing size and population. You also aren't taking in to account the fact that Iowa is an agricultural state (lot's of livestock producers) and also has a tremendous whitetail population which is a primary food source for this animal. The chance for mountain lions to become prolific here is much greater than in California if they are left unchecked. Your argument doesn't hold water but we can agree to disagree here. Thanks for the Wisconsin statistics too but we're talking about Iowa aren't we? We'll see what happens as time is the true test.
Also as an fyi....cougars and mountain lions are two different animals. But you probably knew that.
J
jdavis
Guest
I don't mind sharing my state with a mnt. lion but I do mind sharing my tree stand with one. Being in the timber in the early morning or after dusk and being as quiet as possible with doe urine in my pocket I bet I would be hard to pass up for easy prey. I hope my board head is sharp!
Liv4Rut
Active Member
wow, what a post, man i missed out on some good stuff the last couple of days. Theres only two ways i would kill a mountain lion, one if it is threatening, two if i could outsmart it predator hunting. I have no interest ever in going somewhere to mountain lion hunt, for one i could never shoot one out of a tree after being chased by dogs. and if i saw one in a field off the road i wouldnt shoot it, only if i could call him in while coyote hunting, I would probably shoot it, heck after my last coyote experience i would probably shoot in self defense lol. I think it would be great to outsmart one of those cats. If I saw a cat in my woods i probably wouldnt even worry, chances are they would be ten miles down the road tomorrow.
