Need some help, input please.

[OLETOM]

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=16032

My cousin and I are looking at improving our hunting ground. We would like to use some switch grass or something to improve the habitat adjacent to some pine trees leading out into some crop fields. If not switch grass some combination of corn grass sorgum and turnips or something. You guys have any ideas on what we could do?

Couple other things, we are looking at improving some existing bedding areas by making them thicker. Currently we have been running on the ranch 65 head of black angus cattle. We plan on getting rid of them in the future but are unsure of when exactly. At that time we will just run feeder calve for half the year. In the mean time the angus have the run of the land for the most part so the woods are no that thick anymore. We will be fencing off the northern section of woods so that will be off limits to them, but the 80 acres to the east, still will see limited access by the angus. Thus keeping the under bruss to a minimum. I am wondering if there is some type of slashing or clearing we can do in the draw marked out, to thicken this area up that will detier the cows from using that area and allow a little more cover for bedding deer.

Another thing is, the old apple orchard to the far east, any ideas on how to get that to procude more apples agian.

Looking for any advice. Oh, the food plot in the 80 acres (area 4) is completely fenced off. We are planting turnips and clover with a little pond in there for the deer.

Thanks again

 

[nannyslayer]

dbltree can help you out about the plots and switchgrass, as for the bedding area, I wouldn't touch it, if their using it.

 

[dbltree]

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We would like to use some switch grass or something to improve the habitat adjacent to some pine trees leading out into some crop fields. If not switch grass some combination of corn grass sorgum and turnips or something.

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Let's take this one ?? at a time...
Where the pines are...why do you want to more cover leading out to the crops? (versus shorter foodplots next to the trees)

Are you mostly bow, gun or all seasons?

Your type of hunting and stand placement determine to some extent what and where you plant different species.

I'm a fan of switchgrass of course..but if you already have natural timber cover then that area might be better off in a food/cover plot.

Corn is great but right next to the timber it's likely to get stripped by squirrels, coons etc.

Spot 3 looks interesting because it's hidden and deer are likely to stage there before dark.

Brassicas don't do well in shade or droughty spots so depending on the cover around that spot...clover sounds a better bet.

Exactly what kind of "timber" is in the pastures? Good oaks or hickory, ash and elm type timber?

 

[OLETOM]

Okay, here we go. I will break the land down a little more. We will start with the woods first.

Areas, 1,2 & 3 we will call Section A, is comprised of a 40 acre section of woods (Lays north and south with a big draw in the middle) that is completely off limits to cattle and is generally pretty good for cover. This wood lot as you can see, on the west side is petty much all pines with some oak and popple trees mixed in the draws. The east side of this draw is all mature oaks. Over the past 5 years it has started to open up a little more. Generally this is called the sancuary. It is off limits during the gun season so that the deer have a place to hold up in, but we do have 3 stands for bow hunting it. One of which is located next to the proposed food plot no. 3. This is an easterly facing nob that gets allot of sun light. Not exactly sure that the soil type is like, but I would think there probably is not much top soil on it before you find clay. The pines in this area have gown up to the point where you can see from top to bottom pretty much. I know what your saying by placing a clover or something next to the woods prior to the corn. Which we might plan on doing. This way it will also give the deer a feeding cooridor along the woods prior to them heading up through the grass into the upper corn fields. Would beans be a good choice along those pines? Can a person mix ternips in with bean and have them come up as well, or mix some type of grass, beans and turnips together so the bean don't over shadow the turnips? This wood lot really doesn't need any work, we just want to plant some food plots to keep the deer here through the winter.

Area B, the 80 acres that sits to the east (right)which has food plot 4 and the apple orchard in it. This food plot seems to do pretty well even though we have never tested the soil or added lime to it. It orginally was a little over grown medow with a couple apple trees in it, that we cleared out to make the food plot and a small pond in it. We plant the clover up in the south west corner of the plot and the turnips go to the north east where they get the most sun light. Every year this thing is mowed down by muzzleloading season and the deer are then down feeding in the apple orchard on the crab apple trees which may still be holding apples. This wood lot has really opened up since we put cattle in it. In Wis. we have this SH^& HOLE tax called a Recreational Tax which kills you big time for money. So to get around this we run the cattle up in there after turkey season through August and then lock them out for the rest of the year. This is enough time for them to keep down the under brush. Thus, we would like to do something with the big draw on the east end. The east side of the draw slopes gently for a bit (about 50-60 yards) and then drops down into the draw. On the west side, it is alittle steeper but we want to extend that thickend area up onto the point a little, thus still allowing the turkeys some pretty good roosting area yet on the north westerly side where there are some petty decent oak trees. This wood lot, from the north south 40 line east to food plot 4 is loaded with popple, maple and bass wood trees, with an occaassional oak tree. To the east of food plot 4, it is predominately oak and maple except where the ridge drops back down to the creek on the east side. This east facing slope is loaded with GIANT WHITE PINE! The north slope of this wood lot where it slopes down to the creek is oak, maple and bass wood with some popple again. The area marked for bedding area is loaded with what I call stunted sapplings. I would like to go in and removed or slash half of these saplings out or know down a couple larger trees to get some more sun light to the forest floor.

Sectoin C, is the north facing slope along the creek to the north of the house. There is nothing planned for this. This hill side was logged 6 years ago and is pretty thick. The deer love this area and I have never hunted it until this past gun season when I sat in my climber on the edge of the pines looking down over the logged area. I saw a ton of deer move into this and pased up a 145" 10 that we saw again during muzzleloading which will be around this coming bow season. The only thing we might want to do here is put a food plot along the pines where the draw comes out, see the contouring and you can tell where the draw goes into the pines.

Section D, the north wood lot with the crooked line fence. This south facing slope is pretty thick with prickly ash and oak. The draw on the west which is in red is pretty deep and rocky with some benches in it. This draw is all oak! The flat on the west of the draw is an awesome turkey hunting spot so we want to leave that alone. The neighboring woods to the west of the property line is THICK! Logged and untouched so that is where allot of deer are bedding now. Our draw or this woods is really open now. Deer still use the large rocks for bedding but we want to add some additional cover to the draw. This is where the neighbor make their quad runner drives. So our thinking is, if the draw was a little thicker the deer would hold up a little more in there and not bust out at the sound of them on their quads.

Did I miss anything? Oh, another possible food plot would be to the far west end of the flat along the creek, west of area 5.

Okay, let me have your wealth of knowledge.

 

[PYBucks]

FYI, when I try to open your link I get a: You don't have permission to open page.

Tim

 

[Iowabowtech]

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FYI, when I try to open your link I get a: You don't have permission to open page.

Tim

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Same here.

 

[JNRBRONC]

Probably a PMA thing. PMA membership

 

[OLETOM]

Try the link now guys, I moved it to the members forum.

 

[dbltree]

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Probably a PMA thing. PMA membership

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I can post it here but maybe he prefers the whole world not see it

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let me have your wealth of knowledge

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In the mean time I'm still waiting for someone with either knowledge or wealth to chime in here!

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Would beans be a good choice along those pines? Can a person mix turnips in with bean and have them come up as well, or mix some type of grass, beans and turnips together so the bean don't over shadow the turnips?

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Beans would be fine but again I'm not sure of your deer pressure. Here 2-3 acres of beans next to timber would be mowed before they get 2" high!

If you have plenty of crops close by and growing beans is not a problem...

then yes...soybeans will work.

The best bet is not to mix them...plant RR beans and then interseed brassicas and rye in the standing beans in mid to late August.

All of the above could be a late season draw...depending on your deer density.

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go in and remove or slash half of these saplings out or knock down a couple larger trees to get some more sun light to the forest floor.


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If you want brush/bedding area then your going to have to do just that. Tip some stuff over, let the sun in and then the blackberries should sprout up and new shoots.

Sounds like a place that needs to meet your chainsaw

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if the draw was a little thicker the deer would hold up a little more in there and not bust out at the sound of them on their quads

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Makes sense to me...you might work on a small area of that draw each winter (assuming your hoping to create more cover by cutting trees that have canopied.)

I like to see people do a portion at a time rather then chop down the whole woods at once

That way you don't have all your cover area maturing at once years down the road. Do it in stages.

You may also want to consider doing timber burns in the portions that you want to leave as mature timber.

Doing TSI to kill competition around your oaks will help them produce more/better quality mast.

 

[PYBucks]

The first two things I would do:

A) I would sell the Angus ASAP. It looks like you would have more than enough bedding areas but you just need to make them thicker and that's not going to happen with the Angus there.

B) I would make food plot #5 as big as possible. First, it's right in the middle of your property surrounded by timber. Entrance/exit to stands on this plot would be easy from the farm house. Second, I would plant as much corn in this plot as possible. In my opinion nothing beats standing corn. You might have corn and beans on the surrounding farms but by the end of October it will be picked. Which leaves you with the only farm with corn come Nov., Dec. The other food plots seem too close to the farm house, I wouldn't want most of my plots that close to the house.

Tim

 

[OLETOM]

dbltree, you can post the propety if you would like. Makes it much easier to see.

On this farm we have probably a deer density around 2:1 maybe 3:1 doe:buck ratio. When it was first purchase it was easily 5:1. You would see 20-30 deer a night from stand. Now you maybe see 10-12 on the field edges early in the year with half of them bucks. This is the farm we hunt during the gun season when we want meat, DOES that is. Also, this place sees a pretty good influx of deer come mid to late October depending on when the corn is cut on the flats up the valley from here. Then during the gun season the deer pour into this place and pass down through to the big block of timber to the west of our place.

The crops that are here, corn and hay are only here till mid-late september when we chop the corn for feed. After that the deer tend to move to the neighbors fields. Thus, we want something here to keep them from leaving. The neighbors to the south of the 40 acre wood lot have 10 acres of switch grass planted and that was a magnet this fall for the big bucks. Not sure if they just had a hot doe up in there or if they prefered that grass for cover but they shot two slobs up there that we had been watching this fall. A 23.5' 14 pnt and a 18" 12pnt. Both were shot in that grass. There is only about 10 acres of woods there as well. So we may look at placing more grass for the entire length of the pines out 40-60 yards from the woods and then out above the pond put in a year long corn field or the beans with brasica and rye? Seeding this down, just walk through the field and sow it in with the beans?? Is it a good idea to mix some new pine in with the grass?

PYBucks, I know what your saying about the angus but for the next couple years we are stuck with them. That will change though.

Plot 5, we are fencing off the bottom of that hill this spring to keep the cattle out of that wood lot. In addition we are talking about running a second fence half way down the flat about 60yards wide (raised area above the normal flood plane of the creek) to punt in a corn field or something. I love standing corn, but with it tight to the woods I agree that the coon and turkey would have that dimolished in no time, but what can you do?

Any have any comments on pruning apple trees? Time and how? I will get some photos of this area to post, likewise of the possible food plot 3 so you can see what that is like right now. There is one other small medow in the 40 acre wood lot the we might be able to do something with as well.

I appreciate the help.

 

[dbltree]

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10 acres of switch grass planted and that was a magnet this fall for the big bucks. Not sure if they just had a hot doe up in there or if they prefered that grass for cover but they shot two slobs up there that we had been watching this fall. A 23.5' 14 pnt and a 18" 12pnt. Both were shot in that grass.

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Great stuff but I can't say if only a couple acres would be a safe haven/bedding area.

Ten acres is a fair size chunk..and more is better

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just walk through the field and sow it in with the beans??

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Yes...just use a bag seeder in late summer...preferably just before a rain and seed it into the beans.

Better to not have an extremely heavy population on the beans. Most wait until the leaves are starting to turn but that's not enough time for brassicas.

You can do the same thing in standing corn if you didn't use Atrazine (RR corn would be ideal) it's just harder to spread the seed very far.

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Is it a good idea to mix some new pine in with the grass?


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Pine trees in the switchgrass?

You'll need to burn the switchgrass every so often...so no mixing anything