No Doe shooting for ME…. U guys down?

[LoessHillsArcher]

I'll chime in from Harrison county - worse hunting and deer heard we've had in 22 years of hunting here. Numbers are awful. We have one farm where they are ok. Son shot one and brother shot one, we do rely on deer meat for the family and used to shoot 15+ a year. Now if we shoot a handful that's it.

EDH was bad this year - I'm sure we'll find a lot this spring shed hunting yet.

Coyotes are out of control - deer that are shot have coyotes on them in less than an hour. The past few years if we shoot a deer we track them ASAP, otherwise coyotes will get them. Zero chance if leaving them over night you'll have anything left by morning. Some bones and hide is all.

There are neighboring farms that get hammered by multiple groups, I know they have had very limited success compared to normal but they'll shoot anything that's brown. So that doesn't help.

I'm too the point where shooting a young buck for meat is a serious consideration. I've never had this thought before but been so long since I've shot a deer with my bow I"ve got an itchy trigger finger and do enjoy deer meat.

Last note - the age structure of the local deer heard is junk. 3 year olds, sure there's plenty of them. Some 4 year olds. At this point, almost zero bucks over 4.5. We had some that survived last season, confirmed were alive in March, and they'd lived on the farm for a few years. Thought for sure they'd be back this fall and they never showed. That's happening more and more often for us and that's something new, used to be able to bank on them showing back up year after year. Not sure if they're dispersing due to "open areas" near by that have even lower deer numbers? Or dying from disease April - July before we put trail cams back out?

 

[8bitnes]

I'm guessing you mean buck only?

Oops, yes

 

[8bitnes]

I'll chime in from Harrison county - worse hunting and deer heard we've had in 22 years of hunting here. Numbers are awful. We have one farm where they are ok. Son shot one and brother shot one, we do rely on deer meat for the family and used to shoot 15+ a year. Now if we shoot a handful that's it.

EDH was bad this year - I'm sure we'll find a lot this spring shed hunting yet.

Coyotes are out of control - deer that are shot have coyotes on them in less than an hour. The past few years if we shoot a deer we track them ASAP, otherwise coyotes will get them. Zero chance if leaving them over night you'll have anything left by morning. Some bones and hide is all.

There are neighboring farms that get hammered by multiple groups, I know they have had very limited success compared to normal but they'll shoot anything that's brown. So that doesn't help.

I'm too the point where shooting a young buck for meat is a serious consideration. I've never had this thought before but been so long since I've shot a deer with my bow I"ve got an itchy trigger finger and do enjoy deer meat.

Last note - the age structure of the local deer heard is junk. 3 year olds, sure there's plenty of them. Some 4 year olds. At this point, almost zero bucks over 4.5. We had some that survived last season, confirmed were alive in March, and they'd lived on the farm for a few years. Thought for sure they'd be back this fall and they never showed. That's happening more and more often for us and that's something new, used to be able to bank on them showing back up year after year. Not sure if they're dispersing due to "open areas" near by that have even lower deer numbers? Or dying from disease April - July before we put trail cams back out?

I have a family member in Harrison whose whole neighborhood does QDM and they have great age structure. Now at the point where they cull bully bucks.

But, can second that EHD hammered the area. Western Shelby and Crawford both got decimated by EHD this fall and was hit hard just two years ago too

 

[LoessHillsArcher]

I have a family member in Harrison whose whole neighborhood does QDM and they have great age structure. Now at the point where they cull bully bucks.

But, can second that EHD hammered the area. Western Shelby and Crawford both got decimated by EHD this fall and was hit hard just two years ago too

Interesting, don't find many people over here with the QDM mindset! We've got a couple neighbors who are great, that makes or breaks an area real fast. Especially over here where timber blocks are small and far from one another.

 

[Bassattackr]

Interesting, don't find many people over here with the QDM mindset! We've got a couple neighbors who are great, that makes or breaks an area real fast. Especially over here where timber blocks are small and far from one another.

Similar here in MO. I'm in one of the top counties each year for harvest so neighboring pressure is impactful. Years ago, we had a meeting with local landowners with a QDMA representative after MO dropped the antler point restrictions and collectively decided to keep a rack width of beyond the ears in order to harvest. I can't say how many actually participated but we've seen more 3.5 year old bucks in recent years. Still a fair amount get harvested in gun season due to some non participating neighbors but it's been worth the time to try.

I have one 4 year old to hunt this year that I have yet to see (only have twice on camera during shooting light, despite bedding on me) but have passed on several 3 year olds that I personally would have shot a few years ago. It's rare one makes it past 4.5 around "here".

My main neighbor and I (300 acres between us) have been working to take a few more does but its hard for me to take more than one or two max given the numbers lost each year during rifle season.

Missouri's ever increasingly liberal rifle and now full 4 month crossbow seasons will just continue to make me want to guard the resource, vs take much at all.. At this rate, I'm just waiting for MO to have one 4 month long "anything goes" season where you can instant monitor feedback via 30 cell cams, while flying a thermal drone with dual mounted cross bows and a top mounted 30 round clip centerfire..

 

[8bitnes]

Interesting, don't find many people over here with the QDM mindset! We've got a couple neighbors who are great, that makes or breaks an area real fast. Especially over here where timber blocks are small and far from one another.

It's gotten better. People are more open to educating themselves on what it takes to get desired deer to grow. But, for each of those pockets there remains the imbalance between less and less standing timber, consolidation of private land ownership, and too many hunters each wanting to get a tag filled. That makes for a tough atmosphere and leads to encroachment on private ground / road hunters.

Again, it's not as bad as it used to be. 25 years ago there was a lot of "it's brown, it's down" and a lot of deer shot during Jan/Feb coyote round-ups too. Less of the poaching now, but not completely eliminated. Fur prices limited those chasing coyotes helped with poaching but now the coyotes get the herd.

Need more groups to get frustrated and disband, EHD is accomplishing that this year.

My family uses 3-4 deer worth of meat each year, 90% of that comes from deer taken in SE Iowa. Hoping the herd there is in better shape, but I'm not certain it will be.

 

[whitetail_obsession]

As I have wrote in past threads, I mainly hunt public (95%) in SC IA and I have been seeing a decline in deer numbers for the past 5-10yrs. Big groups of Amish and others push a lot of these pieces every gun season and usually are not selective in what they shoot. I will not shoot a doe unless we really need venison which is rare. I did harvest a doe this year on some private that was paralyzed that someone must have tried poaching as I later found bullet fragments in her spine (contacted the conservation officer who is aware of other poaching in the area). I grew up in WI and can tell you they hand out free doe tags when you buy an archery AND a rifle tag to EVERYONE. Since the population boom in the early 2000s their numbers are way down (I think hunters shot 100k less deer opening weekend this year compared to 2001). The problem has been an overharvest of does and I'm afraid Iowa is on the same trajectory. I have also talked to a lot of residents and non-residents who hunt public and I'm hearing a lot of the same comments stating the quality just isn't what it used to be. Some guys from Michigan said they used to see 120s everywhere on public but even those were hard to come across this trip for them.

My thoughts on the problem in terms of quality is 1) Overharvest of does 2) EHD/Disease 3) Introduction of straight walled cartridges making people more efficient hunters 4) Increase in predator population. You add all those things up and it leads to less deer overall as well as less bucks. Less bucks means people start shooting the best buck they see which is now younger because less deer make it through the seasons. When guys are spending $1000+ for tags most don't want to go home empty handed which I can't blame them. I do chuckle when I hear non-residents say they passed a 140 on their first day because I know although there are big deer it's no guarantee they're getting a shot at a bigger deer than that on public. On large properties I can understand people harvesting does but in areas where the properties are small or on public I don't think we can afford to keep harvesting large numbers of does and wonder why we aren't seeing as many big deer or as many deer in general. Disease alone is really hampering any major recovery efforts in terms of population. Most areas just can't seem to get a break from EHD. Just my .02.

 

[Rous14]

As I have wrote in past threads, I mainly hunt public (95%) and I have been seeing a decline in deer numbers for the past 5-10yrs. Big groups of Amish and others push a lot of these pieces every gun season and usually are not selective in what they shoot. I will not shoot a doe unless we really need venison which is rare. I did harvest a doe this year on some private that was paralyzed that someone must have tried poaching as I later found bullet fragments in her spine (contacted the conservation officer who is aware of other poaching in the area). I grew up in WI and can tell you they hand out free doe tags when you buy an archery AND a rifle tag to EVERYONE. Since the population boom in the early 2000s their numbers are way down (I think hunters shot 100k less deer opening weekend this year compared to 2001). The problem has been an overharvest of does and I'm afraid Iowa is on the same trajectory. I have also talked to a lot of residents and non-residents who hunt public and I'm hearing a lot of the same comments stating the quality just isn't what it used to be. Some guys from Michigan said they used to see 120s everywhere on public but even those were hard to come across this trip for them.

My thoughts on the problem in terms of quality is 1) Overharvest of does 2) EHD/Disease 3) Introduction of straight walled cartridges making people more efficient hunters 4) Increase in predator population. You add all those things up and it leads to less deer overall as well as less bucks. Less bucks means people start shooting the best buck they see which is now younger because less deer make it through the seasons. When guys are spending $1000+ for tags most don't want to go home empty handed which I can't blame them. I do chuckle when I hear non-residents say they passed a 140 on their first day because I know although there are big deer it's no guarantee they're getting a shot at a bigger deer than that on public. On large properties I can understand people harvesting does but in areas where the properties are small or on public I don't think we can afford to keep harvesting large numbers of does and wonder why we aren't seeing as many big deer or as many deer in general. Disease alone is really hampering any major recovery efforts in terms of population. Most areas just can't seem to get a break from EHD. Just my .02.

Spot on imo. I’ve been banging this drum as loudly as I can since 2012.

 

[letemgrow]

Didn't see very many does with twin fawns this year from sightings or cameras.

I'd agree the coyotes are a big reason for that.

 

[Bassattackr]

Didn't see very many does with twin fawns this year from sightings or cameras.

I'd agree the coyotes are a big reason for that.

I wondered about that as well. Not near as many does with fawns at all this year. Several adult does on our farm with no fawns at all through the summer.

I've been getting 3-4 coyotes at a time on camera, also a first for that this year. That's telling..

 

[Daver]

I wondered about that as well. Not near as many does with fawns at all this year. Several adult does on our farm with no fawns at all through the summer.

I've been getting 3-4 coyotes at a time on camera, also a first for that this year. That's telling..

FWIW, we are seeing the opposite at our place...numerous fawns with no apparent adult doe on the scene and we haven't shot any does this year, nor have any neighbors. This in a neighborhood that might harvest 40+ does per year and still need more taken out. EHD hit our area hard and really seems to have taken out a disproportionate number of adult deer, both doe and buck. Actually, maybe not even adults...but seemingly 80% of anything 2 years old and up...gone.

I am curious to see how well things bounce back in our area, we went from too darn many deer to "uh-oh, where are all the deer" in literally 2-3 months with the EHD outbreak. I think it is wild how different things can be from one area to the next AND how quickly things can change in a given area.

 

[Wildturkey 2]

I'm guessing you mean buck only?

Ive watched bobcats go after fawns

 

[MarkF]

FWIW, we are seeing the opposite at our place...numerous fawns with no apparent adult doe on the scene and we haven't shot any does this year, nor have any neighbors. This in a neighborhood that might harvest 40+ does per year and still need more taken out. EHD hit our area hard and really seems to have taken out a disproportionate number of adult deer, both doe and buck. Actually, maybe not even adults...but seemingly 80% of anything 2 years old and up...gone.

I am curious to see how well things bounce back in our area, we went from too darn many deer to "uh-oh, where are all the deer" in literally 2-3 months with the EHD outbreak. I think it is wild how different things can be from one area to the next AND how quickly things can change in a given area.

Same thing on my place in Monroe county in 2019, we would usually see 50-70 deer per night and that year we were lucky to see a deer every 3-4 nights. Literally killed 95% of them, fast forward to late season 2020 and it was back to 50-70 deer again. Last year we shot 40 and it seemed like we didn’t do anything.

 

[daniel93077]

It was rough on my Ringgold 240 this year. All but one mature buck completely dropped off the map between Sept 15th and Nov 15th. No new ones showed up like previous years. Only one left right now. All the 3.5 year olds…gone. Polk County 240 has a decent population but not overpopulated by any means…maybe 3-4 mature bucks..nothing bigger than 160.

 

[daniel93077]

My area is way down. I'd guess 40%. Ringgold County. And like others have said, as recently as mid summer numbers seemed normal. Constantly on the brakes when driving at night, deer everywhere in the evenings, etc. But things have gone downhill through late summer into fall. I've never had so many slow hunts in my life. I think the most deer I saw in a single hunt was 10? Maybe 11? Usually 15-20 is pretty achievable.

4 bucks was the most I saw in a sit. 8-10 is usually more like it during the rut.
I sat all day on November 7th and saw one deer. One deer on November 7th.

It's been rough. Lots of hunts where I find myself just wanting the sun to hurry up and go down so I can head home instead of the the usual edge of your seat excitement of that final hour.

I'm not looking forward to seeing what numbers look like by mid January or next spring for that matter. Gun hunters around here have a "if it's brown, it's down" mentality around here.

This was my exact experience with timing of the decline in Ringgold County this year.

 

[2.5YR8]

I was planning on laying off the does this summer when the cams showed the vast majority of the does had 0 fawns. Then all the mature bucks I knew had survived through last year disappeared. My family eats 3-5 deer so we filled the freezer with 2 yearling bucks and a 2 year old. The worst season I've probably ever had got worse when I ruptured my Achilles the day before Thanksgiving.

 

[iowavf]

DNR says as of today, 80,000 deer has been reported in the harvest count.

 

[Hawk32]

I did finally talk to two different groups in 2 different parts of the state that have seen decent numbers during second gun.

 

[newfarmer]

I have a piece of property that we have an easement with the neighbor- he hates deer...and it apparently shows...every day hes had a least 7 DIFFERENT trucks up on his piece looking for deer during second season... We wont have a deer left over there...

 

[Snail3496]

I have a piece of property that we have an easement with the neighbor- he hates deer...and it apparently shows...every day hes had a least 7 DIFFERENT trucks up on his piece looking for deer during second season... We wont have a deer left over there...

Is selling that property an option for you? That'd be a disheartening situation