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Of all the hunters in the USA, I bet 1% or less are having a discussion on shooting young or old 150" bucks.... There is quite a jaded bunch on this site. No where but Iowa....I've been to a lot of places to deer hunt. Any 150" buck is rare, and any 5 year old buck is rare. Except maybe Saskatchewan (where all deer are rare).
 
Sligh1 said:
Folks- ive watched this “slippery slope” take place all over the country…. Case in point… MI …. Grown men crawling the landscape to shoot the 1st 1.5 they see. Shoot it, cut the rack off & nail it to the garage wall or barn. These same grown men, across the state- complain NON-STOP about how crappy the hunting is. They complain “well if I don’t shoot it, it’ll get shot by someone else”. Or say “can’t eat horns, I’m hunting for meat. Trophy in eye of beholder”. The hard core hunters all leave- take trips to where it’s not ruined. The young hunters QUIT…. The hunting sucks & they QUIT!!!!

Same thing “one tier up” happened in IL…. Used to be full of mature deer. Locals hunted like crazy…. Then they opened the flood gates…. All the young good deer got targeted, all the land got tied up, locals were screwed , hunting went down tubes except on big locked up land. The state sold out for the $ & “guys that wanted to pay to GET THEIR BUCK- whatever it was” & the hunting tanked statewide on average.
No access to good hunting for average guy. Little to no chance at mature deer for little guy. On & on.

Repeat this stuff to some extent in MN, WI, etc.
IOWA is one of the last places this hasn’t happened large scale like the others. Right now- u guys shoot a young good one- probably won’t ruin anything. But- I promise you- this whole debate will be vastly different if we change the regs in this state, keep messing with it & open the gates to the armies wanting to come in to “have a good time, fill the freezer & smash that 125” 2.5 year old 10”. Then average folks wont have this debate cause they will have no where to go and literally will only have the options of shooting 2 or 3 year olds because that’s all that exists. I really hope folks understand how badly other states have ruined their resources and why!!!!!! Even the guy that “doesn’t care”…. I assure you- you don’t want an army of guys out targeting 2-3 year olds - it will ruin this great state & your opportunities for fun & quality hunting with great opportunities will vanish.
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This is spot on. If Iowa changes its regs about out of staters then it will become what Illinois is now..I see it every year in Illinois, people pour in from all over the country every November hoping to kill a giant..This quickly changes to I took vacation, and paid $500 for my tag, I'm shooting something. Look at Pike county, outfitters destroyed it. IMO, outfitters are the worst neighbors that you can have. They shoot the majority of the 3 year olds in the neighborhood every fall. The farm size is so small on average in Illinois, that even if you have some likeminded neighbors hunting age instead of rack size, the immature bucks still get shot in the area. My farm is in what would be considered one of the best neighborhoods in Illinois and it is still very rare to see any old, high scoring bucks. They are there, but in extremely small numbers because too many young bucks are shot yearly.
 
Spysar said:
Of all the hunters in the USA, I bet 1% or less are having a discussion on shooting young or old 150" bucks.... There is quite a jaded bunch on this site. No where but Iowa....I've been to a lot of places to deer hunt. Any 150" buck is rare, and any 5 year old buck is rare. Except maybe Saskatchewan (where all deer are rare).
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They are rare because they get shot before reaching maturity. I also realize most hunters are not after old bucks, just rack size. I see your viewpoint and understand I'm in a very very small group truly hunting age. But if you let bucks get old, you will have giants running around, and almost all hunters want that.
 
I think the average 5.5 yr old buck in Illinois would gross in the 140's. Maybe something like 1 in 5 or 6 would go 150's or bigger. 10 years ago IL could still feed deer and provide mineral up til 10 days before a stand was hunted. I didn't do that, but I wonder if it was fairly common. Maybe that's another reason for the seemingly huge gap nowadays between IA and IL. Lotta mineral being fed in IA I assume? Seems like the mineral market exploded. We're a cwd county, so if you don't shoot it, chances are the DNR will. I don't think I've shot a buck under 4.5 in 20 years, and don't really feel like going back now. Just means roll the dice and eat a lot of tag soup. The kids like the tags anyway, for playing deer hunting in the basement.
 
Spysar said:
Of all the hunters in the USA, I bet 1% or less are having a discussion on shooting young or old 150" bucks.... There is quite a jaded bunch on this site. No where but Iowa....I've been to a lot of places to deer hunt. Any 150" buck is rare, and any 5 year old buck is rare. Except maybe Saskatchewan (where all deer are rare).
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Spot on we are in 1% in iowa & having this discussion. Why everyone in the country wants to come to “The last great place” (or got to Canada, KS, etc) Why we have to tell tens of thousands to wait to come here. Folks that are fleeing their own ruined states. Folks in MI, PA, NY, etc etc can’t have this debate. Agree. Because they ruined their states!! They have the cover, they have the nutrition…. They have horrible regulations & due to those regulations - they will never be able to debate “passing a 3 year old”. There is nothing about those state’s regulations that I would want our state to mimic. Not one thing. It’s a disaster!!!!
Go across the line of S iowa into MO…. Hunting quality & age structure degrades dramatically!!! & every Frigin farm is locked up, leased and pounded by NR’s & a few fortunate locals.
 
Sligh1 said:
But seasoned hunters in IA, IL, KS, etc - who have shot a pile of 2-3 year olds …. I PERSONALLY feel like the guys that continue to shoot the same good 2-3 year olds (& usually not incredibly thrilled when I do talk to them ) …. Just rubs me wrong in a lot of ways…..
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This above. Is what really grinds my gears.

There's still a fraction of hunters out there that have to fill their buck tags every year like it's some kind of annual confirmation of their freaking manhood.

Always the same people every year.. Tout passing on young (inferior 2 year old bucks) then first good 2 year old or 3 year old they see gets waxed. Always in opening day or week of firearms season, since they're easy pickings here in MO.. Our ever useless MDC refuses to move the season out of the rut.

Rant over. Carry on.. :)
 
I posted this point in another thread. Deer seasons exist to kill deer. The dnr cares less about your trophy room. Most guys don’t have 500 plus acres of posted property , and multiple farms, to grow deer and choose what they harvest like some here. In one breath I hear concerns about hunter access and in the next scrutiny regarding access practices. Really?

The folks waiting in line to come are mostly misled about their harvest potential by watching the Iowa video stars who hunt large managed farms I described above. A NR hunter, or R hunter, is lucky to shoot a 150 in 5 days, and most don’t.

Hunting is about seeing deer, sharing it with someone, and killing a few. If I’m lucky to kill a booner so be it. In the meantime I’ll never discourage other hunters in their pursuits as it , imo, goes against management, conservation goals , and sportsmanship.
 
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Windlooker said:
I posted this point in another thread. Deer seasons exist to kill deer. The dnr cares less about your trophy room. Most guys don’t have 500 plus acres of posted property , and multiple farms, to grow deer and choose what they harvest like some here. In one breath I hear concerns about hunter access and in the next scrutiny regarding access practices. Really?

The folks waiting in line to come are mostly misled about their harvest potential by watching the Iowa video stars who hunt large managed farms I described above. A NR hunter, or R hunter, is lucky to shoot a 150 in 5 days, and most don’t.

Hunting is about seeing deer, sharing it with someone, and killing a few. If I’m lucky to kill a booner so be it. In the meantime I’ll never discourage other hunters in their pursuits as it , imo, goes against management, conservation goals , and sportsmanship.
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Good post & good points. Again, we might disagree but well said.
I will disagree that the DNR doesn’t want bigger deer. Having an older & balanced age class of deer is Biologically/scientifically desirable. The state wants larger deer as they view it as an attractant for $ to be spent on deer hunting. We may not agree with that - & to large degree I don’t (governor tags given out to promote Iowa’s big deer). But that’s why they do want big deer & want it promoted. Again, gov tags is a disaster but case in point that furthers the government wishes for older/bigger deer. The larger & more important point is, from biological perspective - we have a healthier herd vs states that destroy their young bucks. Long list of reasons why it’s beneficial.

2nd quick one…. Iowa is one of the few states or places u can hunt mature deer on any 40 or 80 acre chunk. It might not be easy or consistent but any guy that gets a handful of 40 or 80 acre parcels has the incredible blessing & opportunity to be hunting a mature buck in Iowa. This does not happen in other states. We are incredibly lucky & the “little guy” has it better here than anywhere else.
Leading to last quick point….
3rd: go to “crap states” or states That are wide open to NR, out to sell tags, out to fill every last buck tag, etc etc ….. go try and find land to hunt. I’ve been to all these places …. It’s next to impossible …. The “decent areas” are all tied up. Literally the only access, big scale, is public land or in parts of the states there’s few or almost no deer. It’s a disaster of a system!!!!! U wanna see no access- look to our surrounding states or up in eastern or northern states. Folks have no Clue how much better we have it here.
 
I have a great neighborhood in Iowa. The owner to my north is top notch ..he’s on IW … the neighbors in each direction pass bucks and try for older bucks.

Our section has produced (5) 160-170s in the past 3 years. But it’s dang tough to get them much higher.

One giant died of EHD, and a big boy was poached by the road.

I see both sides of this. We have shot a couple nice genetic bucks that we should have passed. My buddy shot one, no hard feelings. It was a 100 yard shot and he honestly thought it was a 4 yr old instead of an awesome 3… it happens.

We can only do our best. The bottom line is having these opportunities and honestly it’s just fun to see deer and having a 3 year old in range and letting him go makes for a quality hunt!
 
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Great discussion. This topic, in a roundabout way, is the number one thing that goes wrong in managing farms. The deer that NEED to get shot get passed in exchange for deer that have way higher potential but are younger and score higher. I see it all the time. Outfitter years ago told me year ago, "spits & kickers get deer killed".

Now, I personally shot a 4 year old this year. Knew it when I was hunting him and was ecstatic to shoot him. Unique situation on farm that was not a long term situation. Alot of factors beyond that went into decision, but I'd be be lying if I didn't say that deer had ALOT more upward potential as far as score. 220+ IMO long term. Conscious decision on my part. Don't regret it. Don't plan shooting anything less than 5 again but I won't have these circumstances again. Happy and moving on.

Flip side of the coin.... this same season also passed 5 year old that's 180 ish. Different farm, different situation. Conscious decision... willing to take the risk to see what he does at 6. Super excited for this coming year and seeing what becomes of this deer and others.

Best of all.... personally guided friends/family on 5 bucks that HAD TO GO this year. Older deer that were either bullies, 8 points, or junk mature non-high scoring deer. That was alot of fun AND helped my farms immensely.

So different situations all over the place... biggest thing IMO if you were to rank things is getting the bully/older/low scoring deer off your farm. Makes a GIGANTIC difference.
 
Windlooker said:
I posted this point in another thread. Deer seasons exist to kill deer. The dnr cares less about your trophy room. Most guys don’t have 500 plus acres of posted property , and multiple farms, to grow deer and choose what they harvest like some here. In one breath I hear concerns about hunter access and in the next scrutiny regarding access practices. Really?

The folks waiting in line to come are mostly misled about their harvest potential by watching the Iowa video stars who hunt large managed farms I described above. A NR hunter, or R hunter, is lucky to shoot a 150 in 5 days, and most don’t.

Hunting is about seeing deer, sharing it with someone, and killing a few. If I’m lucky to kill a booner so be it. In the meantime I’ll never discourage other hunters in their pursuits as it , imo, goes against management, conservation goals , and sportsmanship.
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Sums up my opinions on this topic. Don't see it changing unless I get solo Rights to ~1k acres that I can farm, er I mean manage, the way i want. ;)
 
2 years ago we had a deer 150 inch 's 3 years old and he was passed , This year 170 we felt he would be 190-200 at age 5 !! Jumps the fence and smoked. Irritating but if we pulled the trigger we end what could of been the biggest deer I have ever seen in year . I can only control what I do . Passed another 4.5 year old 3 different times would of been awesome deer next year jumps fence smoked . Irritating both deer multiple years of History . Outfitter to North of me doesn't play nice with neighbors trying do the right thing for our Goals as a group . Outfitters don't care and they would destroy Iowa if your states regs changed .

Horns mean different things to everyone , If you want meat blister some does and help your heard out . I personally am very happy with a mature deer that scores 120 inches have killed them and very happy . I go after the fattest pig on the farm horns they are what they are . Nothing compares to killing a animal in my opinion 5.5 years or older. It's just awesome to me . Yes Mistakes happen we get excited that all part of it . That's why I love trail cams I get know my deer before I decide to shoot one . Plenty of years I haven't had a target deer and hoped a good one would show up .. Meaning a fat one ....

Illinois has been beat up , since 2012 ,13 EHD outbreak mature bucks have declined tremendously because people IMO have to shoot a deer or fill there tag . I don't kill a deer every year that's not my goal. Over hunted by outfitters big time . People cant let a nice deer walk . Most people hunting with outfitters have no Idea what they are shooting . $$$$$ fill tag they are not eating a $4500.00 tag.

Skip is spot on , on what's happened in Illinois and If I was in Iowa I would agree with all of you . Keep people out. I live in Maryland and we have some nice deer . States reg's 10 does and 2 bucks with each weapon. Gun , Bow , Muzzy . I am a out of state landowner in Illinois. Maryland is a kill state , shot shot shot .

The People , Yes us Control how good we want hunting to be or how bad we allow it to become. No mater the regs we control if we pull the trigger . I personally think you let young bucks go .. The same people who complain are the ones shooting the young ones . IMO

All of you have great points and I respect your positions .
 
Went into this past season with the mindset of highest scoring for me or an odd freak. Neither happened and I’m fine with that.

Hope what I passed, I see next year.

If what I passed was taken by another hunter, congrats! Wish I saw pics.


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Bassattackr said:
This above. Is what really grinds my gears.

There's still a fraction of hunters out there that have to fill their buck tags every year like it's some kind of annual confirmation of their freaking manhood.

Always the same people every year.. Tout passing on young (inferior 2 year old bucks) then first good 2 year old or 3 year old they see gets waxed. Always in opening day or week of firearms season, since they're easy pickings here in MO.. Our ever useless MDC refuses to move the season out of the rut.

Rant over. Carry on.. :)
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Ha ha They need to kill one so they can long arm that 130” and get 47 likes on their Facebook page! Get their man card renewed as well!!
 
Jbohn said:
2 years ago we had a deer 150 inch 's 3 years old and he was passed , This year 170 we felt he would be 190-200 at age 5 !! Jumps the fence and smoked. Irritating but if we pulled the trigger we end what could of been the biggest deer I have ever seen in year . I can only control what I do . Passed another 4.5 year old 3 different times would of been awesome deer next year jumps fence smoked . Irritating both deer multiple years of History . Outfitter to North of me doesn't play nice with neighbors trying do the right thing for our Goals as a group . Outfitters don't care and they would destroy Iowa if your states regs changed .

Horns mean different things to everyone , If you want meat blister some does and help your heard out . I personally am very happy with a mature deer that scores 120 inches have killed them and very happy . I go after the fattest pig on the farm horns they are what they are . Nothing compares to killing a animal in my opinion 5.5 years or older. It's just awesome to me . Yes Mistakes happen we get excited that all part of it . That's why I love trail cams I get know my deer before I decide to shoot one . Plenty of years I haven't had a target deer and hoped a good one would show up .. Meaning a fat one ....

Illinois has been beat up , since 2012 ,13 EHD outbreak mature bucks have declined tremendously because people IMO have to shoot a deer or fill there tag . I don't kill a deer every year that's not my goal. Over hunted by outfitters big time . People cant let a nice deer walk . Most people hunting with outfitters have no Idea what they are shooting . $$$$$ fill tag they are not eating a $4500.00 tag.

Skip is spot on , on what's happened in Illinois and If I was in Iowa I would agree with all of you . Keep people out. I live in Maryland and we have some nice deer . States reg's 10 does and 2 bucks with each weapon. Gun , Bow , Muzzy . I am a out of state landowner in Illinois. Maryland is a kill state , shot shot shot .

The People , Yes us Control how good we want hunting to be or how bad we allow it to become. No mater the regs we control if we pull the trigger . I personally think you let young bucks go .. The same people who complain are the ones shooting the young ones . IMO

All of you have great points and I respect your positions .
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I’m certainly no fan of outfitters like most posts in this thread but I really believe that 70-80% of Illinois problem is the EHD breakout in 12/13. Just devastated the herd in much of the state. There were massive numbers of NR hunters flooding in to IL in the mid 2000s and by 2011 the hunting was still insanely good. Not Iowa level but still elite. That changed seemingly overnight when ehd hit.

Pike for example has like 50% less deer right now than they did in the late 2000s (based on the same metric the DNR uses which is Deer vehicle accidents). 50%!! That’s an astonishing figure and yet the next article you read about NOT shooting does will be the first. All anyone talks about is how shooting does is so wonderful for the herd (and in some areas of the country it is) while ignoring the fact that herd levels are nowhere near what they were in the prime of IL hunting days. You can’t have a lot of old big bucks if you don’t first have a lot of bucks i.e. deer in general. We all know between hunters, poachers, hit by car, coyotes, illness, injury, etc... that the odds of a buck making it to 5 plus are slim to begin with. If I start with 10 of them and you start with 5 in good habitat and genetics area, then I’m going to have better hunting than you.
 
Jbohn said:
2 years ago we had a deer 150 inch 's 3 years old and he was passed , This year 170 we felt he would be 190-200 at age 5 !! Jumps the fence and smoked. Irritating but if we pulled the trigger we end what could of been the biggest deer I have ever seen in year . I can only control what I do . Passed another 4.5 year old 3 different times would of been awesome deer next year jumps fence smoked . Irritating both deer multiple years of History . Outfitter to North of me doesn't play nice with neighbors trying do the right thing for our Goals as a group . Outfitters don't care and they would destroy Iowa if your states regs changed .

Horns mean different things to everyone , If you want meat blister some does and help your heard out . I personally am very happy with a mature deer that scores 120 inches have killed them and very happy . I go after the fattest pig on the farm horns they are what they are . Nothing compares to killing a animal in my opinion 5.5 years or older. It's just awesome to me . Yes Mistakes happen we get excited that all part of it . That's why I love trail cams I get know my deer before I decide to shoot one . Plenty of years I haven't had a target deer and hoped a good one would show up .. Meaning a fat one ....

Illinois has been beat up , since 2012 ,13 EHD outbreak mature bucks have declined tremendously because people IMO have to shoot a deer or fill there tag . I don't kill a deer every year that's not my goal. Over hunted by outfitters big time . People cant let a nice deer walk . Most people hunting with outfitters have no Idea what they are shooting . $$$$$ fill tag they are not eating a $4500.00 tag.

Skip is spot on , on what's happened in Illinois and If I was in Iowa I would agree with all of you . Keep people out. I live in Maryland and we have some nice deer . States reg's 10 does and 2 bucks with each weapon. Gun , Bow , Muzzy . I am a out of state landowner in Illinois. Maryland is a kill state , shot shot shot .

The People , Yes us Control how good we want hunting to be or how bad we allow it to become. No mater the regs we control if we pull the trigger . I personally think you let young bucks go .. The same people who complain are the ones shooting the young ones . IMO

All of you have great points and I respect your positions .
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Crossbows or crossguns as I call them, have not helped Illinois either. There are many more bowhunters out there now shooting more young bucks. Illinois needed more hunting income to help pay off their massive debt, and allowed crossbows.
 
I do agree with EHD it hasn't been the same, age structure was crushed . Crossbows I see both sides the few outfitters I check that are around me seems like 75% of the hunters are using crossbows ... In 12 years in Illinois I haven't killed a doe because of numbers. I am in Pike and in a Awesome area so I'm fortunate with excellent neighbors and well above average hunting . I don't see any caliber of deer like I did before 2012 ehd , other factors .. Talk to any local and in 5 minutes they will agree with Skip ..

Some of my best hunts I never harvested a deer. Hunting to me is about enjoying , food plots , enjoying your property . Ill eat a tag I don't feel any less of a hunter . I still spent time doing what I love .
 
Great discussion!!!! My 2 cents !! My farm is small ! 80 acres and only about 65 for hunting ! But.... when i bought it it had best bedding cover in whole section and i have been working hard with tsi and swithgrass to make even better!! The key to getting bucks older is to have them bed on your farm!!!!! And target the "home boddies" as the bucks you let live!!! Give them a safe place to sleep and odds go way up on surviving!!!!! Control what you can and dont worry about what you cant! And HAVE FUN !!!!!!





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Wi transplant said:
Great discussion!!!! My 2 cents !! My farm is small ! 80 acres and only about 65 for hunting ! But.... when i bought it it had best bedding cover in whole section and i have been working hard with tsi and swithgrass to make even better!! The key to getting bucks older is to have them bed on your farm!!!!! And target the "home boddies" as the bucks you let live!!! Give them a safe place to sleep and odds go way up on surviving!!!!! Control what you can and dont worry about what you cant! And HAVE FUN !!!!!!





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Well said !
 
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