Falldreams
Well-Known Member
Iowa TRULY IS the last great deer hunting state in this country and hay days of the whitetail. Many states have piles of deer and tremendous herds compared to here in Iowa. And of course there are also a select few other states with lots of deer and pockets of an overall quality herd and age structure. Most all hardcore hunters in the know are fully aware of the reasons why Iowa is what it is. The topic of this thread is phenomenal!! Deer hunting has changed dramatically the past couple decades and then warp speed the past 10-12 years. You have the older now veteran hunters/seasoned hunters who have closely followed and lived these changes and you might even call them "old school". Then you have the younger generations being introduced to the outdoors and deer hunting. Most of these younger hunters know what they know (from technology.....videos, internet, smart phones). I'm not sure, nor am I implying there is a right or wrong way (although i do have an opinion).......However it's just cultural change amongst the masses.
The debate of age/inches vs. shoot what makes you happy is so immensely controversial in the world of deer hunting and management I don't think there is truly an ultimate answer.......once again it's just hunting!! We fellow "deer nerds" of the country make up such a tiny segment of the overall deer hunting population (%1? %3 i dunno) that it can be easy to lose sight of what hunting should and always has been about (Food, connection with nature and the land, peace and quiet, exercise, a get away, time with friends and family, making memories.....there's sooooo much!)
There is NO doubt as mentioned earlier in this thread that we as hunters have a HUGE impact on the quality age structure of our deer herd in whichever state we hunt. We are the one's letting that arrow fly or pulling that trigger. I FULLY understand both sides of the coin on age/inches vs. shoot what makes you happy as there are many opinions on this subject. Many hunters follow a path of evolution to what makes them happy. Even though I'm of the opinion let him go let him grow and absolutely love and live for the challenge each year! But who am I to tell someone else what they should choose to kill??? Totally of agreeance that education of good deer and land management is critical at the end of the day........Matter of fact that right there may be the ultimate answer.
The debate of age/inches vs. shoot what makes you happy is so immensely controversial in the world of deer hunting and management I don't think there is truly an ultimate answer.......once again it's just hunting!! We fellow "deer nerds" of the country make up such a tiny segment of the overall deer hunting population (%1? %3 i dunno) that it can be easy to lose sight of what hunting should and always has been about (Food, connection with nature and the land, peace and quiet, exercise, a get away, time with friends and family, making memories.....there's sooooo much!)
There is NO doubt as mentioned earlier in this thread that we as hunters have a HUGE impact on the quality age structure of our deer herd in whichever state we hunt. We are the one's letting that arrow fly or pulling that trigger. I FULLY understand both sides of the coin on age/inches vs. shoot what makes you happy as there are many opinions on this subject. Many hunters follow a path of evolution to what makes them happy. Even though I'm of the opinion let him go let him grow and absolutely love and live for the challenge each year! But who am I to tell someone else what they should choose to kill??? Totally of agreeance that education of good deer and land management is critical at the end of the day........Matter of fact that right there may be the ultimate answer.
Rous14
PMA Member
Like you I haven’t harvested a doe in IL in forever simply bc I so firmly believe the herd can and should grow. Hats off to you for not killing any either, most hunters I talk to don’t realize the numbers are so low relatively speaking, and if they do they don’t care. They want to hear their gun go bang or draw blood with their crossgun. Few years back I called a large well known Outfitter down your way and asked them why the heck they were still killing does. No good answer other than people like to kill stuff. Which I get, we all do! But so important to keep the big picture in mind and respect the resource as much as possible. Stewardship has to come before my own personal desires.
I've hunted Iowa for 20 years, and I have 2 bucks over 150". If I had to hold out for 150" or bigger, I'd hardly ever get to shoot a buck. I mostly hunt public land. I feel I'm pretty selective and I pass a lot of bucks, but I think some of you guys with lots of private land you can control have unreasonable expectations of others given their opportunities. Yes, if everyone passes those younger bucks on public... that ain't ever going to happen.
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Fair & great post. Agree with you… hunting public - my expectations would be high at 150”. Unless I got to some secluded or “low pressure” large pieces of public - that do exist - a lot of work & travel to do it though. Expectations in your unique area or scenario is totally reasonable & no one can argue about that. Props on 2 150’s off public!!!! Most guys from MI will NEVER SEE a 150”!!!!!!
Buckscrape
Well-Known Member
We're only our own worst enemy if our goal is a mature 170 but we keep killing young 140s. We really can't control what other hunters are happy to take though, we can only control what we shoot. Here in Sask where I hunt my goal is a mature 5.5 yr old and up, regardless of the score. Of course if I know of a 160 inch 6.5 yr old and a 140 inch the same age, I'm probably going to hunt the 160 - but not always, ha.
I had that choice in 2020 and I hunted and used my tag on a 150 to give the 160 some breathing room. Well it paid off and that 160 blew up into a magnificent 205 inch beauty. Even if someone else would have ended up getting him it would have still given me a little satisfaction knowing I let him reach his full potential.
So I guess what I'm getting at is while it's nice if the neighborhood is all on the same page and let the bucks mature, really you are the only one who can decide to pass and let that jumper live to see another day.
Like others have mentioned, thick cover that has all a buck needs in a relatively small area can really make a difference in keeping him around year after year.
Also, knowing that a deer has survived multiple severe winters, dodged numerous predators, and outsmarted other hunters really makes a trophy that much more special.
I had that choice in 2020 and I hunted and used my tag on a 150 to give the 160 some breathing room. Well it paid off and that 160 blew up into a magnificent 205 inch beauty. Even if someone else would have ended up getting him it would have still given me a little satisfaction knowing I let him reach his full potential.
So I guess what I'm getting at is while it's nice if the neighborhood is all on the same page and let the bucks mature, really you are the only one who can decide to pass and let that jumper live to see another day.
Like others have mentioned, thick cover that has all a buck needs in a relatively small area can really make a difference in keeping him around year after year.
Also, knowing that a deer has survived multiple severe winters, dodged numerous predators, and outsmarted other hunters really makes a trophy that much more special.
Tmayer13
Well-Known Member
Its more of a thrill to get the bucks to a higher age. Passing him and letting him stay safe on the farm, giving him reasons not to leave, thats the thrill. The thrill is passing not knowing if he is going to make it to next year and then getting cams out the following summer and getting his pic in velvet, that there is a REAL thrill!
JNRBRONC
Well-Known Member
Occasionally there is the buck that stays nocturnal for most of his life, then slips up in old age. Not sure if killing a senile deer is much to brag about, LOL.
northcedar
Well-Known Member
Interesting point. I see that happen around here. Everyone makes it sound like those old scuzzy looking 115" bucks that never grow are all like ghosts, when in reality it just takes a few years before they finally cross paths with someone who wants to shoot them, getting passed by numerous others in the meantime. Of course a few of them are ghosts. Not every buck gets big, just like not every buck gets smart or hard to kill.
hillrunner
PMA Member
Lol, just like people, deer get smarter with age regardless of whether they were passed or not. Also, just like people, at a certain age that can go backwards.
I think it's pretty rare in the wild for anything to live long enough to go senile. There are plenty of things other than hunters that'll kill them pretty quick once they lose their witts.
tall@wide
PMA Member
I think anytime you have a buck that beds on your farm he is very killable. In fact, I almost think it is too easy. I have only known a couple of bucks that were almost totally nocturnal and very difficult to kill. Those are my favorite type of bucks to chase. At this point in my life, I like trying to grow big, old bucks even more than actually killing them. Killing is just the icing on the cake. I have a neighbor who manages like me, and I tell him, I don't care who kills these old bucks, lets just get them old.
sep0667
Land of the Whitetail
Social media has trashed shed hunting. Wish we could go back just 5 years.
2.5YR8
Well-Known Member
That was mostly tongue in cheek, and I phrased it wrong anyways, you wouldn't want me as a neighbor shooting all the 3 yr oldsFair point, honest & good post. Even though we disagree on this one issue..
Let me ask you one question or challenge you a bit…..
Wouldn’t u rather own next to a group that manages for older deer vs the group that “shoots em all”? Wouldn’t owning next to land where they had balanced herd, good age structure (& thus more bucks) allow you to have more opportunities? More meat & more enjoyment for friends & family? If we are just talking about opportunities for you- which scenario would u be better off in? On flip side, would u rather be next to like public hunting or ground that’s pounded by outfitted hunts? where the young bucks probably stand the least amount of chance of making it but lot of hunting going on. Which would u prefer?
Again, great post, love the perspective & dialogue on differing view points.
. In all honesty I've killed 3 bucks in the last 10 years, 2 were 3 yr olds, and 1 was 5. Ironically I passed a 3 year old 1/2 an hour before shooting the 5. I've also filled several any sex tags with does. I guess you could say I will hold out for something 4+, but every 2-4 yrs the trigger finger gets too itchy, and a 3 year old gets shot.Granted I only have 2 years history on my small farm, but the buck to doe ratio has been around 1:3 with little management from me, and virtually none from the neighbors from what I can tell. I don't know what a good balance of 1,2,3, and 4+ year old bucks would be but it seems like there are more 4+ around me than 2-3 yr olds. Maybe I'm just in a very unique situation, but the deer herd seems to be in pretty good shape.
To answer your questions being by public wouldn't bother me. I've always hunted public in some capacity, and I still hunt about 50% of the time on public. The amount of pressure on public is generally overstated, and the quality of deer is understated. You can look back at my posts with trail cam pics, and 1/2 those bucks are currently roaming public and over 4 years old. I'm not entirely sure I would want a large manager next door. I currently don't own a lot, and I can't see me being able to do a whole lot to pull deer off a large well managed area.
I know I don't want to be by an outfitter, and most of the private I've hunted by permission gets hunted harder and has less deer than any public ground I've hunted.
I will say that what Sligh, and a lot of other people on this site are accomplishing is impressive. The amount of time, $$, and hard work you guys have in improving your farms' habitat is inspiring.