FarmlandQDM
New Member
Hunting outfitters do not have to be license in the state of Iowa yet ... and I am not sure we want them to be. Perhaps the state could regulate their activities better if licensed but then they would likely develop an outfitters and guides association, have a much stronger political voice, and could probably argue more affectively in the legislatures that our nonresident tag rules in Iowa restrict small business growth. Licensed outfitters and guides are really a double edged sword if we look what they have become in other states ... if organized they can develop into a very strong lobbying force that may seriously change the deer hunting climate in Iowa.
R
Renobber
Guest
hey lx did it happen to be oco?
KSQ2
PMA Member
Outfitters do not have to be licensed to have a strong lobby voice. I think it's outrageous that outfitters aren't licensed here in Kansas... Might have something to do with the fact that our Deparment of Wildlife secretary has substantial outfitter investment -- talk about a mess.
1luckyguy
Member
I was talking to one of the Fed's that patrol Effigy Mounds in NE Iowa this fall and he said people are always trying to sneak in there deer hunting. I was hunting private land bordering the park and he said he busted a bow hunter that day from Florida who was put there by an outfitter. He told me it was a $10,000 fine, but I'm not sure if the fine was for the hunter or the outfitter.
O.k guys here the story.
The property that a friend hunts has a seperate farmer that is not the land owner and the farmer has NO hunting rights on the property. The understanding between the landowner and the farmer is that NO ONE is to hunt the property except the landowners hunter ( my friend). Well the farmers son is a outfitter and after years of trying he finally wormed his way onto the proprty for 1 day of hunting, just him , his father and the hired man were coming in to shoot does only. The landowner was sitting in her chair watching T.V. when 3 trucks pulling ATVs came through the driveway. Finding this alittle odd she called my friend and told him that they were going to hunt the bottom but something wasnt right with all the trucks and asked Mike to chekc things out for her. She stated that she only gave permission for 3 guys. Well Mike drove to the bottom and saw 3 trucks parked along the levee and a trailed 4wheeler. Also there were 5 gun cases in the back of the truck instead of the 3 that there was suppose to be. Per the landowners request Mike drove to the bottom to find out what was going on with the 3 trucks and low and behold there are 5 guys spread out throught the timber WHICH WAS NOT THE LANDOWNERS. Mike informed them of this and the hunter he was talking to stated "I don't know where I'm at, I'm from North Carolina and I'm with an outfitter. This pissed Mike off beyond belief and proceeded to tell them that they weren't even on the correct property. The outfitter (whose name I will keep to myself) came over and told Mike that they were on the correct land and that he didn't know what he was talking about. Mike has hunted this land for 20 years and knows the property lines better then the landowner.
Mike made the call back to the landowner and informed her what was going on with the other 4 guys that were there and that they were on another property that they did not have permission to be on. Not only that but they had already shot a deer on this wrong property. The land owner who I will start calling "landowner #1" called the other property owner and told him that there were hunters on his property and she thought that he would like to know this. Landowner #2 stated "I'll be at your house with a deputy in a minute"
To make a long story short the sheriffs deputy came out and cited individuals on the property and per landowner #2 they were charged with tresspassing and everything was tunred over to the DNR. Landowner #1 who Mike hunts on was FUMING PISSED. Due to the fact that she let them come in and hunt under the assumption that it was only going to be the 3 origianl guys, instead it was only 2 of the original guys and 4 others that she did not know about. Along with the "outfitter" charing people to hunt her land.
This person has tried and tried to hunt there just for reason that he knew there were alot big bucks on this property and that the clients would be statisfied and seeing so many deer. I think that the outfitter should not be allowed to outfit anylonger. They trespassed, and poached a deer off the land they did not have permission to be on. They thought that they could take advantage of 83 yr old landowner and she wouldn't know any better. 1 of the orginal hunters wasnt even there and the outfitter was pushing through the WRONG property and not carrying a gun, he was trying to push deer to the clients.
Sorry for such along story but I thought that some of you would like to know why I asked the question.
The property that a friend hunts has a seperate farmer that is not the land owner and the farmer has NO hunting rights on the property. The understanding between the landowner and the farmer is that NO ONE is to hunt the property except the landowners hunter ( my friend). Well the farmers son is a outfitter and after years of trying he finally wormed his way onto the proprty for 1 day of hunting, just him , his father and the hired man were coming in to shoot does only. The landowner was sitting in her chair watching T.V. when 3 trucks pulling ATVs came through the driveway. Finding this alittle odd she called my friend and told him that they were going to hunt the bottom but something wasnt right with all the trucks and asked Mike to chekc things out for her. She stated that she only gave permission for 3 guys. Well Mike drove to the bottom and saw 3 trucks parked along the levee and a trailed 4wheeler. Also there were 5 gun cases in the back of the truck instead of the 3 that there was suppose to be. Per the landowners request Mike drove to the bottom to find out what was going on with the 3 trucks and low and behold there are 5 guys spread out throught the timber WHICH WAS NOT THE LANDOWNERS. Mike informed them of this and the hunter he was talking to stated "I don't know where I'm at, I'm from North Carolina and I'm with an outfitter. This pissed Mike off beyond belief and proceeded to tell them that they weren't even on the correct property. The outfitter (whose name I will keep to myself) came over and told Mike that they were on the correct land and that he didn't know what he was talking about. Mike has hunted this land for 20 years and knows the property lines better then the landowner.
Mike made the call back to the landowner and informed her what was going on with the other 4 guys that were there and that they were on another property that they did not have permission to be on. Not only that but they had already shot a deer on this wrong property. The land owner who I will start calling "landowner #1" called the other property owner and told him that there were hunters on his property and she thought that he would like to know this. Landowner #2 stated "I'll be at your house with a deputy in a minute"
To make a long story short the sheriffs deputy came out and cited individuals on the property and per landowner #2 they were charged with tresspassing and everything was tunred over to the DNR. Landowner #1 who Mike hunts on was FUMING PISSED. Due to the fact that she let them come in and hunt under the assumption that it was only going to be the 3 origianl guys, instead it was only 2 of the original guys and 4 others that she did not know about. Along with the "outfitter" charing people to hunt her land.
This person has tried and tried to hunt there just for reason that he knew there were alot big bucks on this property and that the clients would be statisfied and seeing so many deer. I think that the outfitter should not be allowed to outfit anylonger. They trespassed, and poached a deer off the land they did not have permission to be on. They thought that they could take advantage of 83 yr old landowner and she wouldn't know any better. 1 of the orginal hunters wasnt even there and the outfitter was pushing through the WRONG property and not carrying a gun, he was trying to push deer to the clients.
Sorry for such along story but I thought that some of you would like to know why I asked the question.
This is the kind of sleazball that can happen if outfitters aren't licensed and regulated. As far as them gaining to much political clout as a group, if the total number of outfitters were limited I can't see this being a real threat. I have talked about this for years on here. Right now any one, resident or not, can call themselves an outfitter and put an ad in a magazine and start charging "clients" and leasing land. By licensing and requiring large bonds as a requirement for licensing the numbers of applicants would be deminished and the quality would go up. Think about how many outfitters it would really take to service the 6500 NR hunters who make up 95% of the outfitters business. If the DNR also moves some of the zones and quotas for the zones arround NR hunters wouldn't be bunched up nor would the outfitters. This would make them more controlable and conspicous when violations occurred. The bond money could be used to pay damages like in this case to the offended landowners, but not to pay the fines, court costs, and replacement value to the state. It could also be set up where the outfitter and the hunter recieved the same punishments and fines for viloations, there by eliminating the "I didn't know" excuse on both sides. The outfitter would be responsible for what his hunters did and they would be held responsible for what the outfitter did. In the example just given all 5 hunters would be given equal fines and punishments for tresspassing, poaching, and any other charges as well as having larger and more restrictive punishments because of the outfitter involvement. Just in the past couple of years there have been cases of outfitters buying resident tags for NR hunters, buying tags in MO to put on deer killed here in Iowa, and who knows how many other scams all in the name of greed, money, and antlers. By setting up a system of controls and licensing qualifications, and larger fines for both outfitters and clients the DNR would have more clout as well as extra revenue. The new reporting system might also give the DNR advanced clues and more evidence in tag violations. I also beleive that this would lead to fewer leased acres because of fewer outfitters and the higher cost of doing business and the higher potential of being caught and severly punished for violations.
Whew, sorry you should not let me get started on things like this.
Whew, sorry you should not let me get started on things like this.