Rage in the Cage: Hillarious!

[sureshot]

I am guessing 15 out of the last 20 deer I've shot with Rages have been clean pass throughs.....

 

[nannyslayer]

I am guessing 15 out of the last 20 deer I've shot with Rages have been clean pass throughs.....

Same here. I shoot the 3 blades and love those heads.

 

[shadowpeople]

I also know of a friend who has shot a turkey and the arrow bounced off at 7 yards. I believe it was a rage or a wasp jackhammer and he was pulling 65 lbs. So, I don't think it is that far fetched. Personally I have stuck a doe at 10 yards with a rage in the shoulder blade and got 4 inches of penetration. The deer ran 50 yards and then walked away like nothing happened. In my mind I would like to think that if I had been shooting fixed heads, I just may have found "the cage" but it isn't like I can go back and prove it, nor would I recommend shooting any deer in the shoulder blade. I've had good and bad experiences with rages and so have my friends. They will do the job if you hit where you need to and the results are devastating. But, they aren't my personal choice.

 

[AIRASSAULT]

Really?

Cmon man, do you actually believe that? You could take the dullest field point and still get killing penetration on a turkey. Anybody who knows anything about archery hunting and shooting knows that this is absolutely false. Not trying to be a dick, but seriously man.........

I've been shooting archery since I was about 4 or 5.. So, that's about 23 years and yes, I actually do believe it.. Whether you do or not is up to you I guess.. If it wasn't for it happening to my best friend I've known all my life, I wouldn't believe it either. He called me from the stand right after it happened and he's not much of a bull-sheister.. He shot a hen during the fall out of the tree stand and it smacked her right in the wing butt and bounced off somehow . One of those freak occurences that never happen with a Rage I guess.......Maybe the blades didn't deploy.... maybe they opened in flight...maybe it un-screwed itself and turned around backwards before it hit ..I have no idea, and he doesn't either. We are both about as dumb-founded as you are, but I trust him.
I shot this hen and doe on the same night... blew through the turkey and only went about fletch deep on the doe. So, it's not like I believe it happens all the time, but I've heard it twice from two different people.. That's enough for me to be paranoid.

 

[sureshot]

I shot a doe with a Muzzy 100gr about 5years ago square in the shoulder. Guess what happened? I never found her! SHOT PLACEMENT, SHOT PLACEMENT, SHOT PLACEMENT!

 

[TheMadCatter]

I've been shooting archery since I was about 4 or 5.. So, that's about 23 years and yes, I actually do believe it.. Whether you do or not is up to you I guess.. If it wasn't for it happening to my best friend I've known all my life, I wouldn't believe it either. He called me from the stand right after it happened and he's not much of a bull-sheister.. He shot a hen during the fall out of the tree stand and it smacked her right in the wing butt and bounced off somehow . One of those freak occurences that never happen with a Rage I guess.......Maybe the blades didn't deploy.... maybe they opened in flight...maybe it un-screwed itself and turned around backwards before it hit ..I have no idea, and he doesn't either. We are both about as dumb-founded as you are, but I trust him.
I shot this hen and doe on the same night... blew through the turkey and only went about fletch deep on the doe. So, it's not like I believe it happens all the time, but I've heard it twice from two different people.. That's enough for me to be paranoid.

Wait, you can shoot Hens during Fall Turkey?

 

[sureshot]

Wait, you can shoot Hens during Fall Turkey?

Yes.............

 

[deeraddict]

Momentum will carry alot more value than KE.

It is clear that both momentum and energy of a moving body are dependent upon its velocity. You double the velocity and you double the momentum of the body. But doubling the velocity quadruples the kinetic energy of the moving body.

Not sure if I am misunderstanding what I have read in the past or not but I thought by what I pasted above KE has more push then momentum. Take for example two minature basket balls of the same size. Fill one with air and one with concrete, and shoot them both out of a water baloon slingshot. They are both going to have momentum behind them, which one do you want to catch at 40 yards. That is another way an old timer explained it to me, is this off?

​

 

[jeezticals]

One time at band camp I stuck a rage in my Woo Hoo!!

Clean pass through. I am a rage fan. :way:

 

[jjohnson]

OK this is just my opinion and I really don't care what anybody shoots for a head. I run an archery shop so I get to hear everyone's stories. I'm sure part of this is because of the #'s of people shooting rage but every year I hear a ton of people saying they shot a deer with a Rage and cannot find it. I've seen shoulder shots where there was only a couple of inches of penetration and I've seen one guy actually blow right thru a shoulder with a rage. I've heard several stories of blades opening in flight, rotted bands, deflections, etc, etc. Just ask Randy Ulmer why Tim Gillingham won the 100yd Rage broadhead shoot a few years ago. In the finals Randy's shot never made it to the target because the blades opened in flight and left his arrow lodged in the carpet halfway down the lane. I think Tim was glueing his blades shut.:way:

My point is since the invention of the short ferrule fixed blade broadhead. Fixed blade heads really can fly just like a field point and many do. If they don't the bow is either out of tune or the archer doesn't have good form (DON'T SQUEEZE THE GRIP PEOPLE:thrwrck. OK...

So really why not shoot a fixed blade head. You can screw them on and forget about them. No making sure they didn't open when you took them out of the quiver or hoping they don't open in flight. If you happen to tuck it to close to the shoulder. You'll have confidence that you can punch right thru. It's unlikely they will deflect on ribs/bone. And there's a good chance your gonna get a passthru. This is very important because most of your shots are elevated and with no passthru tracking can be impossible. The deer literally has to fill up with blood before you start finding blood.

This post was not intended to offend or insult anyone that shoots expandable broadheads. It is just my opinion and was meant to be informative. I've been there and done that. Shot big cut on contact expandables for a few years. Lost a few deer one in particular was perfectly broadside at 25 yds. Hit him a couple inches forward in the shoulder. I literally got 2 inches of penetration and never even phased that back. I see it every year and I feel bad for the guys. There are better heads out there than RAGE.

Hech if you want to shoot a good expandable just try a smaller head. Bill Winke and his dad Jim did a test on broadheads like 20 some years ago and the Rocket Steelhead tested the best. Bill still shoots them to this day I believe. I know another great archer that has killed a ton of deer with Steelheads. Always got passthru's. I wonder why? Because they're small. I think 1 1/8th" or something. Bigger is not always better.

But like sureshot said. PLACEMENT PLACEMENT PLACEMENT. My brother tried them a couple years ago and I think the arrow deflected something serious. It was a steep angle but still sometimes that's all you got. Here's a link to his hunt.

http://www.sportsmensunlimited.com/jay150vid.html

 

[sureshot]

OK this is just my opinion and I really don't care what anybody shoots for a head. I run an archery shop so I get to hear everyone's stories. I'm sure part of this is because of the #'s of people shooting rage but every year I hear a ton of people saying they shot a deer with a Rage and cannot find it. I've seen shoulder shots where there was only a couple of inches of penetration and I've seen one guy actually blow right thru a shoulder with a rage. I've heard several stories of blades opening in flight, rotted bands, deflections, etc, etc. Just ask Randy Ulmer why Tim Gillingham won the 100yd Rage broadhead shoot a few years ago. In the finals Randy's shot never made it to the target because the blades opened in flight and left his arrow lodged in the carpet halfway down the lane. I think Tim was glueing his blades shut.:way:

My point is since the invention of the short ferrule fixed blade broadhead. Fixed blade heads really can fly just like a field point and many do. If they don't the bow is either out of tune or the archer doesn't have good form (DON'T SQUEEZE THE GRIP PEOPLE:thrwrck. OK...

So really why not shoot a fixed blade head. You can screw them on and forget about them. No making sure they didn't open when you took them out of the quiver or hoping they don't open in flight. If you happen to tuck it to close to the shoulder. You'll have confidence that you can punch right thru. It's unlikely they will deflect on ribs/bone. And there's a good chance your gonna get a passthru. This is very important because most of your shots are elevated and with no passthru tracking can be impossible. The deer literally has to fill up with blood before you start finding blood.

This post was not intended to offend or insult anyone that shoots expandable broadheads. It is just my opinion and was meant to be informative. I've been there and done that. Shot big cut on contact expandables for a few years. Lost a few deer one in particular was perfectly broadside at 25 yds. Hit him a couple inches forward in the shoulder. I literally got 2 inches of penetration and never even phased that back. I see it every year and I feel bad for the guys. There are better heads out there than RAGE.

Hech if you want to shoot a good expandable just try a smaller head. Bill Winke and his dad Jim did a test on broadheads like 20 some years ago and the Rocket Steelhead tested the best. Bill still shoots them to this day I believe. I know another great archer that has killed a ton of deer with Steelheads. Always got passthru's. I wonder why? Because they're small. I think 1 1/8th" or something. Bigger is not always better.

But like sureshot said. PLACEMENT PLACEMENT PLACEMENT. My brother tried them a couple years ago and I think the arrow deflected something serious. It was a steep angle but still sometimes that's all you got. Here's a link to his hunt.

http://www.sportsmensunlimited.com/jay150vid.html

I agree with a lot of what you said. I began shooting Rages when they first came out because I was not getting the flight I wanted out of fixed blades. I have since had great luck with Rages, but continue to hear 'horror' stories every year. I have never had one open in flight. I have never hit a deer in the shoulder with one. I have never had a bad experience with these heads. I do realize that with a mechanical there is more room for error in something going wrong with the head. I have also never seen a blood trail like the deer I have shot with Rages, and keep in mind that I have nearly always gotten pass throughs with them.

Last week I bought a pack of fixed blade Montec G5s (1 1/8 cutting diameter). I shot them at 20yards and was surprised....THEY FLEW SPOT ON. I then went to 30 and 40 yards; same results.

I then shot 3 arrows into my block target; 1 tipped with a Rage, 1 tipped with a NAP Bloodrunner (fly horrible), and 1 tipped with the Montec. The NAP Bloodrunner flew horrible and the tip was barely sticking out of the backside of the target. The Rage flew spot on, and was sticking approximately 4inches out of the back of the target. The Montec flew spot on and was sticking approximately 6inches out of the back of the target.

Let's just say I may be switching to the Montec G5s this fall. Like you said, they are simple and I don't have to worry about anything with them. One thing that I have noticed the past few years is that my Rage blades seem to be a little looser in the O-rings then they used to be (move slightly), and this worries me.

Right now my quiver is equipped with 3 Rages and 3 Montecs....hmmm....decision time :grin:

 

[AIRASSAULT]

Right now my quiver is equipped with 3 Rages and 3 Montecs....hmmm....decision time :grin:

That's exactly what mine looks like. However I just can't seem to get the rages and the montecs to fly the same, so I'm going to have to try huntyak's tip.

 

[jjohnson]

I sell a ton of Montecs. They are just to simple and that's a good thing. Easy to sharpen too. Put them on a flat stone and sharpen both edges at once. My buddy's buck in the PMA was a complete passthru through both shoulder blades. Pretty Impressive.

 

[jjohnson]

That's exactly what mine looks like. However I just can't seem to get the rages and the montecs to fly the same, so I'm going to have to try huntyak's tip.

I've seen montecs fly a touch high a lot. Usually an inch or two. A slight rest adjustment like huntyak said usually fixes the problem.

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Thats the great thing about IW. 99% of the time you get great input with respectful discussions and this thread is no exception. Good points by SS and JJ.

Deer addict, that is an excellent analogy and the difference is that KE essentially dissipates onces it hits an object, and momentum carries on. Throw a whiffle ball and a baseball with equal KE but notice that the whiffle ball rolls a few feet, a baseball rolls a few yards AFTER it hits the object (ground).

Its interesting to discuss these things but with whiteatails I think we are spliting hairs. Shooting a moderate weight arrow with a good head that you can shoot accurately, and you are in great shape on whitetails. :drink2:

 

[ironwood]

Awesome!:way: Very funny. Tried the rages for a year, I have nothing good to say about them, and I'll leave it at that. But to each his own.

same here. My experiences proved them unworthy.

 

[deeraddict]

Thats the great thing about IW. 99% of the time you get great input with respectful discussions and this thread is no exception. Good points by SS and JJ.

Deer addict, that is an excellent analogy and the difference is that KE essentially dissipates onces it hits an object, and momentum carries on. Throw a whiffle ball and a baseball with equal KE but notice that the whiffle ball rolls a few feet, a baseball rolls a few yards AFTER it hits the object (ground).

Its interesting to discuss these things but with whiteatails I think we are spliting hairs. Shooting a moderate weight arrow with a good head that you can shoot accurately, and you are in great shape on whitetails. :drink2:

Yep, just trying to learn a bit. I understand that KE disapates, but would this not also add to the momentum? For example Send a baseball out of a pitching machine at 50 mph at panes of glass. It is going to get through a few panes. Now, shoot about 200 finishing nails to that same ball and send it again. (we do this to balls to weight them for pitching strength.) Is it not going to go through more panes as the extra weight adds to the KE which will help to increase the momentum? Not trying to be argumentative just trying to understand completely. I have had great success with the rages myself but think everyone should shoot what they are comfortable with. I have the same experiance as SureShot with the Monotechs, I was really pleases with the way the shot, and am going to be using them this year as well.

 

[dedgeez]

Sorry for jumping on ya AA. I just have a hard time believing that an arrow could actually bounce straight backward when it has a sharp point on it. I could see if the broadhead fell off and it was a blunt point, but other than that I don't see the "bounce" happening. All I am saying is that when you hit a extremely hard object with any broadhead/arrow combination, 99% of the time the arrow will stop and flex so much that usually it breaks or the broadhead gets pushed back into the shaft itself. I have splintered the end of a few arrows in my day

I am with Sureshot on this one. I have killed over 20 deer with Rage heads and most have been a clean pass through. BUT, with that said, most of the deer I shot with fixed blades were clean pass throughs. So I agree that, regardless of the head a guy shoots, we should all be conscious of the shot placement.

One more question for someone more intelligent than I am. I hear a lot of guys say that the blades come open in flight. How in the hell do they know this? Are they videoing their arrows in super slow motion? They must have some seriously eagle like eyesight to be able to see the broadhead open in mid flight. Hell I can barely see my arrow in flight, let alone the broadhead. I think alot of guys are just making excuses for making poor shots and the broadhead is the easiest thing to blame. I wounded a doe one time and I blamed myself for hitting her in the shoulder, not the muzzy(4blade 90 grain) I was shooting for not doing its job. Can you say user error?

Great discussion, and once again AirAssault, wasn't trying to pick on you, I would just have to see a arrow with a broadhead "bounce" of a turkey.

 

[nannyslayer]

I think the reason you hear more horror stories out of rages is, that is the most popular head today. Just imagine if we all shot some fixed blade head, and then you would hear horror stories about it.

I love the rage broadhead, but with it comes some responsibility. You must check your rubber bands, you must make sure your blades are locked EVERYTIME you knock your arrow. You must place the broadhead and arrow in an area that is a fatal shot to the animal (I think this is 85% of the complaints, but it's always the heads fault).

If you don't want to take a second when getting your equipment ready to do this, then rage's are NOT for you.

 

[nannyslayer]

One more question for someone more intelligent than I am. I hear a lot of guys say that the blades come open in flight. How in the hell do they know this? Are they videoing their arrows in super slow motion? They must have some seriously eagle like eyesight to be able to see the broadhead open in mid flight. Hell I can barely see my arrow in flight, let alone the broadhead. I think alot of guys are just making excuses for making poor shots and the broadhead is the easiest thing to blame. I wounded a doe one time and I blamed myself for hitting her in the shoulder, not the muzzy I was shooting for not doing its job. Can you say user error?

I agree, and when it's the most popular head out there today, there is going to be a lot of stories.